Savarin Mold Style

[Richard Kilgore]

I find the Savarin design appealing and wondered what the history is and typical uses. I saw the silicon Savarin molds in a smallish size and thought about using it for strawberry shortcake. Would that be a reasonable use? Other ideas for these small ones? About 2 1/2 or 3 inches in diameter as I recall.

[aidensnd2]

I'd say the most common use of the savarin mold is to make Savarin...

[Richard Kilgore]

I found an entry in Davidson's Oxford Companion To Food. He writes that in the "1840s one of the brother's Julien, Parisian patssiers experimented with the baba in a slightly different form. He used the same dough, but removed the dried fruits and soaked the savarin with his own 'secret syrup'. He named his new confection in honour of the famous gastronomic writer Brillat-Savarin...." He does not mention a direct connection with Brillat-Savarin.

Where can I find a recipe for the traditional savarin dough? Davidson says the hole is filled with fruit or cream. Or both? What I was imagining as a use of the mold for strawbery shortcake appears to be similar to the original.

[Richard Kilgore]

I am not a pastry pro, and to claim I am a pastry amateur also would be pushing it a bit, but would someone please humour me anyway. I am sure this is an elementary question. And perhaps the strawberry shortcake savarin is gouche or just a poor idea, but give me a clue since I don't have one.

[cbarre02]

I don't see why yo could not use this type of mold for a short cake. The hole in th middle provide a nice nook to put all of you goodies, and would allow the cake to soak up the strawberry juices quite nicely.

[Steve Klc]

I've baked other cakes in those shapes, Richard, it often works fine--and another thing you could do in them is mold a cream, like a creme brulee, panna cotta, blancmange, something like that, freeze, then unmold it and build a plated dessert around it. In this example, you could present your cream in the savarin shape on a plate or in a wide shallow bowl, sprinkle your strawberries and some juice around it, and then crumble some shortcake or biscuit crumbs around it.

Think of a savarin as a very closely related cousin of the baba, Richard, many people use one dough interchangeably for both, but it isn't exactly as easy to make as, say, a pate brisee or pate sucre tart dough, and it involves yeast, but with some reading and experimentation you can make it. Any good classic french pastry book will have a baba/savarin recipe with instructions--there's a good treatment in Ducasse's pastry book, and Dorie Greenspan has a nice treatment of baba using dry yeast in Paris Sweets. Here's mine:

Baba

125 g cake flour

375 g AP flour

7 g salt

60 g sugar--mixed together

35 g fresh yeast, dissolved in

100 ml milk

100 g water at 110 F

6 eggs

150 g very soft butter

Put milk/water/yeast in bowl

Start turning with paddle at speed #2

Start adding flour mixture

Then add an egg--alternating flour and egg

Paddle for at least 5 minutes

Then add very soft butter and paddle for another 5-6 minutes

Dough should start to pull away from sides of bowl

Pipe 40 g into sprayed aluminum molds

Proof for 15 mins in warm place until it is about 2/3 of the way up the mold

Bake for 20 mins in 355-375 F oven.

(Check at 8 minutes and turn tray around)

Freeze when cool or soak and refrigerate.

Soaking syrup

1 L water

500 g sugar

1 orange zest

1 lemon zest

1 vanilla bean

150 ml dark rum

Soak babas with warm syrup, store in fridge

[Richard Kilgore]

Thanks, cbarre02. You're right, that was similar to what I had in mind.

And thanks a bunch Steve for your recipe and your creative spin on the elements floating in my imagination.

Steve, can I make the dough without using a stand mixer? Would a hand mixer work?

[Steve Klc]

I've never tried to, Richard, it's kind of a messy sticky dough that benefits from being inside the K-aid-shaped bowl. Just about the only thing I've ever done with a hand mixer is whip a small amount of egg whites, and even then it was under-powered. I recommend every amateur or home baker who is willing to spend any time at all making more than, say, brownies, which means any eGulleteer reading this, get a basic 5 quart Kitchenaid stand mixer. It's like buying an inexpensive digital scale--so you can weigh things and move beyond the scoop and sweep of the entrenched cookbook cabal.

You're welcome about the spin, it's what I do.

[KarenS]

I have a savarin on my menu right now. I serve it warm on a ring of caramelised pineapple, with whipped cream, dried cherry compote, pineapple caramel, and creme anglaise- with toasted coconut. I use brioche dough (which is very similar), and add currants to the dough. My soaking liquid is similar to Steve's- I have star anise too. I was thinking "pineapple upside down cake".

You can make any bread dough by hand- it is just much more work. Get a Kitchenaid! They are very useful tools.

[Richard Kilgore]

A Kitchen Aide's been on my list, but just has not made it to the top quite yet. So, by hand it is. I do have a scale picked out, the KD-600 at saveonscales.com -- just waiting for them to get it back in stock in white next week. No reason to get something that weighs more accurately than 1 gram/0.1 ounce is there?

Thanks for the description, Karen. Sounds very good.

[bripastryguy]

Richard,

Just got that same model. I have an older version from that same company, pretty awesome for the price.

[artisanbaker]

i usually mix a baba dough for at least 30 minutes in a kitchenaid/hobart.

then again i usually hydrate the flour with ~150% eggs!

happy baking.

[Steve Klc]

There's no doubt brioche dough can be used in a lot of applications--and no doubt it is a close cousin of baba/savarin--but the two doughs are distinct, and when done well the end results are very different. How much high gluten flour you use, the kind of yeast, percentage of butter or eggs, whether you do one rise or two, etc.--there are myriad little ways to tweak these types of dough and make them more personal--and with experience you'll find what works for you and you'll reach some comfort level. If you haven't had the Ducasse baba, put it on your fantasy wish list. I agree even these can theoretically be done by hand, but I wouldn't advise anyone spending the 200 strokes (conservatively I'm guessing) kneading even a small batch by hand requires. (And the problem with a hand mixer is it doesn't do the paddle/dough hook action well--in that case you are better off using your hands if you must.) To get even the brioche, for instance, to pull away from the bowl properly, to get it smooth and homogeneous, before you add the butter takes time and it also helps greatly if you can use the machine to adjust kneading speed, even if only for a few minutes--a little slower initially, then a little faster in the beginning pre-butter--and again a little slower once you've added the butter. Everyone has their own tips and techniques which work for them--but I tend to agree with artisanbaker you're looking at at least a 20 to 30 minute kneading job. I wouldn't recommend doing these doughs by hand even once--wait until you get the K-aid to do baba, savarin and brioche. Play with something like croissant, which requires much less kneading in the fraisage stage, until you get that K-aid.

[nightscotsman]

The first time we made brioche dough in school we had to make it entirely by hand - NO machines - so we could get a feel for the different stages and when to add the butter. It's really not that hard once you have someone show you the trick of kneeding a really sticky, soft dough. However, savarin and baba doughs are so soft and runny they are almost batters, so I for one would never consider making them without a stand mixer with a paddle and/or dough hook.

[Richard Kilgore]

Okay, you guys are just too persuasive. The KA is creeping up on my list.

[JanKK]

I recommend every amateur or home baker who is willing to spend any time at all making more than, say, brownies, which means any eGulleteer reading this, get a basic 5 quart Kitchenaid stand mixer.

Hey ........even better, get the bigger one if you can afford it and have the space!! Especially if you plan to use it to make bread --- or for double batches of anything. I graduated to the KA Custom Edition with 6qt bowl about a year ago ......best money I ever spent!

[Steve Klc]

I hear you Jan, and for the people who are pros and/or primarily bread bakers out there I'd like to keep hearing more reports of how they like this new model over time--and we've had eG threads debating this model and others--because my experience with the new machine style with the wider, flatter 6 quart bowl style is that it is not as well-manufactured, is more irksome to use and doesn't actually perform most pastry tasks as well as the 5 quart machine & bowl shape--it just does slightly larger batches of things slightly less well. Our 6 quart Custom edition is in storage and our two 5 quart K-aids with extra bowls are still out on the counter still performing like workhorses. At least for us bigger wasn't better. Though we don't do bread often--the build quality of the 6 quart would seem to be the longer term issue as it would come under much greater torque over time with bread.

For home bakers--and some pros--it can be a disadvantage to have to do larger batches of things in the 6 quart when the larger batch isn't necessary. Anyone considering a purchase should seek out those other threads for more specific advice about models and brands.

[bleudauvergne]

I have a savarin on my menu right now. I serve it warm on a ring of caramelised pineapple, with whipped cream, dried cherry compote, pineapple caramel, and creme anglaise- with toasted coconut. I use brioche dough (which is very similar), and add currants to the dough. My soaking liquid is similar to Steve's- I have star anise too. I was thinking "pineapple upside down cake".

It sounds heavenly.

[Richard Kilgore]

Everyone has their own tips and techniques which work for them--but I tend to agree with artisanbaker you're looking at at least a 20 to 30 minute kneading job. I wouldn't recommend doing these doughs by hand even once--wait until you get the K-aid to do baba, savarin and brioche.

Steve, you convinced me. A refurbished 350 watt 5 qt KA is on it's way.

[JanKK]

I hear you Jan, and for the people who are pros and/or primarily bread bakers out there I'd like to keep hearing more reports of how they like this new model over time--and we've had eG threads debating this model and others--because my experience with the new machine style with the wider, flatter 6 quart bowl style is that it is not as well-manufactured, is more irksome to use and doesn't actually perform most pastry tasks as well as the 5 quart machine & bowl shape--it just does slightly larger batches of things slightly less well. Our 6 quart Custom edition is in storage and our two 5 quart K-aids with extra bowls are still out on the counter still performing like workhorses. At least for us bigger wasn't better. Though we don't do bread often--the build quality of the 6 quart would seem to be the longer term issue as it would come under much greater torque over time with bread.

For home bakers--and some pros--it can be a disadvantage to have to do larger batches of things in the 6 quart when the larger batch isn't necessary. Anyone considering a purchase should seek out those other threads for more specific advice about models and brands.

Acutually, I didn't know this forum existed when I bought mine --but I did do my homework and there were definitely pros and cons. But I kept finding things the 5qt just wouldn't quite handle ---and to be perfectly honest, I love new kitchen toys ;)

I still really like it .......I've had it for about 1 1/2 yrs and it runs great. I would agree though that the 5qt was better for doing some smaller batches. Trying to cream something with only 1/2 cup of butter is certainly a challenge in that big bowl. Unfortunately, there's no room to have two ;)

[chromedome]

You can make any bread dough by hand- it is just much more work. Get a Kitchenaid! They are very useful tools.

I love my Kitchenaid, and I use it a lot, but it's useless for bread. I made the mistake of buying a model with the 4.6 qt bowl (I was on a budget). It's got the 350 watt motor, so I've got power enough to handle bread dough, but the dough climbs the hook and winds itself around the head unit.

I spend more time unsticking the damned dough than it's worth. Usually I start the bread in the KA, let it go to the point that it climbs the hook, and then take it over to the table and knead by hand. It's quicker in the end.

As I said I give my machine a lot of use, but bread was one of the primary reasons I bought it. I'm still a little miffed about that.

[KarenS]

I disagree with Steve- I think that the 6 Qt is great. The bowl is wider and the attachments are not working a deep narrow mixture. The 5 qt never made me happy because it is too narrow- you always ended up with weird mixing (I always finish everything by hand). The dough hook just did not cut it in the five qt. The design was poor (and they did redo it). The six qt is great- for bread, you can keep it at speed two for a long time and it will not overheat, and work a larger amount.

[KarenS]

Spray your dough hook with pan spray to help stop climbing.