Guide Michelin comes to NY

[chopjwu12]

do you think that the food is food enough at adny to get them in though? I mean bruni just killed them for there food and id imagine that michelin is going to be a much tougher crowd. Plus if they frown on multiple location restaurants then i think there is more frowning 0n ducasse the keller. I mean at least keller is in one country and not like 3 or 4.

[Fat Guy]

According to Jerry Shriver's USA Today article, linked to by Bilrus above, "One restaurant has earned three stars, though Michelin won't say which one."

I think it will be Sripraphai.

[milla]

I don't think Michelin gives a whit about Bruni or anything he has written about any restaurant. why should they? they are creating their own guide. It is not about just the food either, though personally I think the food is tremendous at ADNY...

do you think that the food is food enough at adny to get them in though? I mean bruni just killed them for there food and id imagine that michelin is going to be a much tougher crowd. Plus if they frown on multiple location restaurants then i think there is more frowning 0n ducasse the keller. I mean at least keller is in one country and not like 3 or 4.

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[chefzadi]

actually, ADNY is set up perfectly in terms of criteria with their single seating policy and luxury at every facet of the experience.  Keep in mind also that Michelin has a history of frowning on multi-establishment chefs, witnessing the demotion/promotion of Ducasse Louis XVI on relocation of ADPA and the opening of ADNY.  I bring this to light with regard to T Keller.  Will michelin give him 3 in NY followed by 3 at FL in the Bay Area guide the following year?  I am willing to bet against that.  I am also willing to bet it will be Ducasse IF there is actually a *** the first year of the guide.  Don't count on that though...

if any get three stars and im not to sure even one will. But if any its got to be per se. Its set up perfectly for the criteria of a michelan restaurant. Adny i dont think will given there recent demotion jg not a chance, bouley nope, le bernarden i dont think so either but who knows we are all going to have to wait until it come out.

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If it's a toss up between Ducasse and Keller it will probably go to Ducasse. Chef Ducasse has more experience than Chef Keller does with all the OTHER factors that go into gaining Michelin stars. If both chefs dedicate themselves to earning the stars

and play their politics right my money is on Ducasse for a strong lead. He just has more experience in the playing that Michelin recognizes.

[chefzadi]

According to Jerry Shriver's USA Today article, linked to by Bilrus above, "One restaurant has earned three stars, though Michelin won't say which one."

I think it will be Sripraphai.

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Non, Wo Hop.

[chopjwu12]

i didn't mean to imply that michelin cared about what bruni said. I meant if what bruni said is a glimpse at whats going on at adny then they might have more trouble then getting in then per se does. Im still saying that per se gets it. Im willing to make a wager on it. Per se is just set up for perfection from every little detail. Adny may also be but i think they might not achieve it as often as per se does. Thats just an opinion you cant take anything away from adny. I know a few people that work there and they are all wonderfully talented individuals. Hell id love an oportunity to work there myself. There a wonderful restaurant one of the best around. I just feel that per se might edge them out on consistency and that could be the deciding factor.

Edited February 26, 2005 by chopjwu12 (log)

[silentryan]

if any get three stars and im not to sure even one will. But if any its got to be per se. Its set up perfectly for the criteria of a michelan restaurant. Adny i dont think will given there recent demotion jg not a chance, bouley nope, le bernarden i dont think so either but who knows we are all going to have to wait until it come out.

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I don't think Le Bernardin is even eligible, since they only serve seafood. That's why the original Le Bernardin had two stars.

[milla]

I don't think Le Bernardin is even eligible, since they only serve seafood.  That's why the original Le Bernardin had two stars.

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excellent point.

[touaregsand]

IF there is a three star, Ducasse.

If Keller gets more stars than Ducasse, it would ROCK the French culinary world. It would be like Michelin is stabbing a knife into the hearts of French chefs everywhere. I'm only exagerating slightly.

[marcus]

if any get three stars and im not to sure even one will. But if any its got to be per se. Its set up perfectly for the criteria of a michelan restaurant. Adny i dont think will given there recent demotion jg not a chance, bouley nope, le bernarden i dont think so either but who knows we are all going to have to wait until it come out.

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I don't think Le Bernardin is even eligible, since they only serve seafood. That's why the original Le Bernardin had two stars.

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They also had no desert chef. They were serving primarily Berthillon ice cream. I don't think that their seafood format would prevent them from getting 3 stars. Their big problem is that they aren't that good.

[marcus]

As a long time Michelin watcher, I will make a different prediction, Daniel, followed by Per Se and then ADNY and Jean Georges, depending on how many 3 star restaurants they want to create in their first year. Daniel has many of the characteristics of a 3 star, it is French and yet it is of NY. Michelin needs to demonstrate that it is au courant with the NY scene and not just a foreign interloper. Giving 3 stars uniquely to Ducasse would just be too politically incorrect. I believe that they can only get away with doing that if they name a minimum of 3 restaurants. Daniel may not really compare foodwise to the better French 3 stars, but if you look outside of France and Switzerland, particularly in Belgium and Italy, you can find 3 stars that are less good. Daniel is certainly better than the Waterside Inn outside London.

[touaregsand]

As a long time Michelin watcher, I will make a different prediction, Daniel, followed by Per Se and then ADNY and Jean Georges, depending on how many 3 star restaurants they want to create in their first year.  Daniel has many of the characteristics of a 3 star, it is French and yet it is of NY.  Michelin needs to demonstrate that it is au courant with the NY scene and not just a foreign interloper.  Giving 3 stars uniquely to Ducasse would just be too politically incorrect.  I believe that they can only get away with doing that if they name a minimum of 3 restaurants.  Daniel may not really compare foodwise to the better French 3 stars, but if you look outside of France and Switzerland, particularly in Belgium and Italy, you can find 3 stars that are less good.  Daniel is certainly better than the Waterside Inn outside London.

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Politically incorrect to who? New Yorkers? Who's gonna buy the Michelin guide? Does Michelin even care about political correctness? Sure, to a certain extent, which I sort of implied earlier. Three Stars going to an American in New York before it goes to French chef in New York, highly doubtful. My money (what little I have ) is on Ducasse who looks like he really "set" out to create a Michelin starred restaurant with ADNY. I get the same impression from Keller with Per Se. Ducasse has the clear lead on the rest with his knowledge of all those little details of what Michelin wants but doesn't make transparent to the public.

[milla]

  Daniel is certainly better than the Waterside Inn outside London.

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that is not saying much.

[ASM NY]

Milla makes a good point about Michelin frowning upon multi-establishment chefs. It has been tough enough for Ducasse to manage his restaurants in France for them to award three stars to ADNY right away. I would not be surprised if they eventually got 3 stars though.

If there is indeed one 3-star restaurant, I am going to have to go with Per Se. (in spite of Keller not being here that often). While FL is considered by many the best in the country and among the top in the world, you don't hear that about ADNY.

[chefzadi]

Milla makes a good point about Michelin frowning upon multi-establishment chefs. It has been tough enough for Ducasse to manage his restaurants in France for them to award three stars to ADNY right away. I would not be surprised if they eventually got 3 stars though.

If there is indeed one 3-star restaurant, I am going to have to go with Per Se. (in spite of Keller not being here that often). While FL is considered by many the best in the country and among the top in the world, you don't hear that about ADNY.

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Michelin is a firm part of the culinary "establishment" in France. More than a player but a mover that inadvertently (yeah right ) sets, designs and directs the stage for restaurants over there that want or have stars.

If an American chef in NY got three stars before a French chef in NY the shock wave it would send throughout France . Touragsand mentioned it would be like stabbing a knife into the hearts of French Chefs. It really wouldn't end there, it would extend to the public and the press. The fallout, the loss of clout for Michelin's in its most "important" country could be tremendous. It would be a deep cutural wound.

All "politics" aside. Ducasse is the master I see in town. Keller might have staged or worked in a few Michelin star places. But Ducasse is the king of all the other details, machinations, accoutrements, luxuries, etc that "make" a 3 star place.

[Bux]

Michelin is a firm part of the culinary "establishment" in France. More than a player but a mover that inadvertently (yeah right  ) sets, designs and directs the stage for restaurants over there that want or have stars.

If an American chef in NY got three stars before a French chef in NY the shock wave it would send throughout France  . Touragsand mentioned it would be like stabbing a knife into the hearts of French Chefs. It really wouldn't end there, it would extend to the public and the press. The fallout, the loss of clout for Michelin's in its most "important" country could be tremendous. It would be a deep cutural wound.

All "politics" aside. Ducasse is the master I see in town. Keller might have staged or worked in a few Michelin star places. But Ducasse is the king of all the other details, machinations, accoutrements, luxuries, etc that "make" a 3 star place.

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I'd disagree. NY is not France anymore than Italy or Spain is France, although there are French chefs with restaurants in Spain, they are not the three star restaurants. Keller is an excellent example of chef who epitomizes French standards of cuisine. I regard Michelin and its guides with great skepticism, but I think you're wrong to look at the externals from a postion of being in Paris or L.A. There is nothing at Per Se in the way of "all the other details, machinations, accoutrements, luxuries, etc that "make" a 3 star place" that don't outshine Arpège for instance. Daniel can be criticized for its size and for turning tables. Both of these things may contribute to a an atmosphere that some may find distracting, but I've experienced more distraction from the hustle and bustle of the service team rushing about at Michel Guerard, the epitome of elegant dining in France as well as relaxed atmosphere, to believe that any of this need be a reason for not awarding three stars. How the inspectors and publisher feel is another matter.

Michelin's mission is to promote its own guides and tires. If it's going to support French cuisine, it will do so by just minimizing the number of stars awarded as it does in Spain and perhaps a number of other European guides.

[touaregsand]

Bux-

Who do you think will be the first to get 3 stars? Or any star?

[Bux]

Bux-

Who do you think will be the first to get 3 stars? Or any star?

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I wouldn't presume to second guess them. I've been wrong in France. As for my opinion of who I think should be the the first three choices, I've eaten very well lately, but I don't have the resources to keep on top of the contenders even in my most expansive dining periods. From not so recent experience as well as recent experience and hearsay, I'd bet on Per Se, Daniel, ADNY, le Bernadin and Jean Georges as being the best bets that come to mind. I wonder if that's not an agreed upon lot. I haven't been at le Bernardin in a while, which I regret if only to try the desserts (Michael Laiskonis, not to mention the desserts at JG Johnny Iuzinni) but Patricia Well just said (in the IHT) that le Bernardin might be the best seafood restaurant in the world. I no longer regard her as quite the authority I once did, but still that's sit up and notice talk.

[touaregsand]

I think it is agreed upon alot. Those are the names I keep hearing about the most.

I also get the impression that ADNY and Per Se seem to be considered neck and neck, if you will.

Hence my earlier comment about American Chef vs French Chef. All in good fun.

It should be fun to watch the reaction either way. And oh, I do think it will be "enthusiastic" either way.

Edited March 1, 2005 by touaregsand (log)

[bourdain]

One wag in the know asks: "Which candidate for three stars in NY gives the Michelin people free rooms and free food and advises them on who deserves and who doesn't?"

" Which front runner for three stars in NY has barely touched food himself in nearly twenty years? Not even a salad?"

Other factors to consider (or not) when playing the Michelin guessing game: Michelin has a huge readership outside of the US (European tourists and Japanese). So Michelin IS an important factor--even if Zagat's evil influence continues unabated.

Michelin dissing the most deserving American(Keller)--when they hope and plan to expand to other US cities--would send a dismaying message, one likely to be siezed upon by eager-to-dismiss francophobes. "Keller doesn't get three? Who among us does?" would be the inevitable conclusion. Followed by a resounding "Fuck it." Not the way to build an empire.

I don't know that three stars Michelin in France is the standard that will or SHOULD be applied here. Particularly as it has proven to be an unworkable business model--and as American expectations are more casual. Can a US restaurant really charge 40 dollars for a bowl of soup? I take the Michelin people at their word--that the reviews will focus more on the FOOD--and less on the linens and glassware and service.

In general, I think the arrival of Michelin is a positive development. In spite of their proven shortcomings in France, I believe their standards and practices to be more reliable, useful and meaningful than the Zagnuts.

I think Keller BETTER get three. I think Ducasse is a shoe-in.

Edited March 1, 2005 by bourdain (log)

[touaregsand]

Tony-

Who do you think will get it FIRST?

I don't know if this type of conjecture is not to your taste. How about just for fun?

Edited March 1, 2005 by touaregsand (log)

[chefzadi]

Michelin is a firm part of the culinary "establishment" in France. More than a player but a mover that inadvertently (yeah right  ) sets, designs and directs the stage for restaurants over there that want or have stars.

If an American chef in NY got three stars before a French chef in NY the shock wave it would send throughout France  . Touragsand mentioned it would be like stabbing a knife into the hearts of French Chefs. It really wouldn't end there, it would extend to the public and the press. The fallout, the loss of clout for Michelin's in its most "important" country could be tremendous. It would be a deep cutural wound.

All "politics" aside. Ducasse is the master I see in town. Keller might have staged or worked in a few Michelin star places. But Ducasse is the king of all the other details, machinations, accoutrements, luxuries, etc that "make" a 3 star place.

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I'd disagree. NY is not France anymore than Italy or Spain is France, although there are French chefs with restaurants in Spain, they are not the three star restaurants. Keller is an excellent example of chef who epitomizes French standards of cuisine. I regard Michelin and its guides with great skepticism, but I think you're wrong to look at the externals from a postion of being in Paris or L.A. There is nothing at Per Se in the way of "all the other details, machinations, accoutrements, luxuries, etc that "make" a 3 star place" that don't outshine Arpège for instance. Daniel can be criticized for its size and for turning tables. Both of these things may contribute to a an atmosphere that some may find distracting, but I've experienced more distraction from the hustle and bustle of the service team rushing about at Michel Guerard, the epitome of elegant dining in France as well as relaxed atmosphere, to believe that any of this need be a reason for not awarding three stars. How the inspectors and publisher feel is another matter.

Michelin's mission is to promote its own guides and tires. If it's going to support French cuisine, it will do so by just minimizing the number of stars awarded as it does in Spain and perhaps a number of other European guides.

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The operative word I used was BEFORE. Who get's it first. I just get the feeling that my fellow French Chefs here and in France are watching this one more closely than other "races" in other countries. I could be wrong, but then again I know what I hear.

Michelin will never have the "hold" it does in France (which some might say is slipping, which I'll reserve for the France forum.) in other countries. Of course Michelin is a business... I'll leave this alone here, because I am tempted to apply it France.

I think Bourdain more strongly implied you know who's understanding of Michelin and what they want more clearly than I did.

[zeitoun]

I also get the impression that ADNY and Per Se seem to be considered neck and neck, if you will.

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There is no doubt that those two restaurants are the most serious contenders. I am not too familiar with the history behind the awarding of Michelin stars but isn't it rare (or impossible) to see a restaurant receive three stars less than two years into its opening? Could this be a factor in not awarding three stars to Per Se?

[Pan]

What I like about Michelin producing a New York Guide is that we will have more to talk about. Look, we're onto the fifth page already, and the guide hasn't even come out yet.

But another thing to consider (sorry if I mentioned this before and am repeating myself) is that Michelin will fill a niche here, because I think we would all agree that even at the best of times, the New York Times' star ratings are not comparable to Michelin star ratings. And I think we'd overwhelmingly agree that these are not the best of times for the New York Times main reviews. Of course, that's a subject for another thread...

[chopjwu12]

I dont think keller will get it just because i think it will get it because its the most deserving restaurant in the city. So if one place gets it it will be per se if two do then adny will get it as well. Thats just my opinion.

i think the thing that hurts places like daniel and bouley is that they do to many covers. Michelin has a thing that when you sit down the table is yours for the evening. Not to many places do that so it will be very interesting to see how michelin deals with that aspect of new york.

Edited March 2, 2005 by chopjwu12 (log)