Chocolate like glass

[thegreatdane]

Hey, all,

Does anyone know how to temper chocolate until it looks as shiney as glass? I tempered some recently and it was glossy and beautiful but not like a mirror. Is that possible? And what kind of thermometer is best, since temps are so important?

Thanks,

Tom

[nightscotsman]

Perfectly tempered chocolate will have a shiny surface, but not actually glossy. I think what you are comparing to is chocolate that has been molded or spread on a shiny plastic surface. The glossier the surface of the mold, the shinier the chocolate when completely set.

As far as thermometers, you can use almost any good quality digital, but know that even with the most accurate readings there may be some slight variations in correct temper temperatures. Chocolate is tempered when it's tempered, and the only way to know for sure is to dip a test strip and see how it sets. knowing the temperature points is helpful, but we learned to do it in class without thermometers and I find that you can run into trouble if you only rely on often unreliable instruments and tempurature alone.

[thegreatdane]

Thanks for your reply.

When you do a test strip, what are you looking for? How glossy?

Also, how did you do it without thermometers? I've tested it on the lower lip for slight warmth.

What about the crystallization process; heat to 110-120 to melt all cocoa butter crystals, cool to 82-84 to form uniform crystals, work at 88-91?

In other words, what's the best way to temper chocolate for the shiniest glaze?

[tan319]

Like Neil said, I think it's the surface you use to temper on.

PVC, those shiny sheets they sell at JBPrince, etc.

Temperatures to follow are those that the brand specifies as the best to follow, correct?

I would also keep in mind that, as has been mentioned in here before, that a lot of chocolate one buys is already in temper.

If it looks shiny, as if it's already been tempered, it's probably in temper.

The paper strip test is for testing setting though, yes?

Any good coverture is going to look glossy when it's melted, you're looking for the snap?

Edited April 21, 2004 by tan319 (log)

[nightscotsman]

When you do a test strip, what are you looking for?  How glossy?

You want to check to see how fast the chocolate sets at room temperature. If it sets in about a minute, then you have temper. You also want to check for the quality of the set - no streaks and a glossy finish. Like I said before, you won't get it truly shiney, but is shouldn't be dull. This is just one of those things, like many when it comes to chocolate, that you just have to see and learn the difference.

Also, how did you do it without thermometers?  I've tested it on the lower lip for slight warmth.

We tempered chocolate every day for several weeks, both tabling and seeding. We were taught to look for changes in the texture and feel of the chocolate as it reaches the different stages of temper and cocoa butter crystals formed. Again, this is something that it almost impossible to describe or even show with photos - you really have to see it done to know what to look for. Testing on the lower lip is how it used to be done, but a major no-no as far as sanitation.

What about the crystallization process; heat to 110-120 to melt all cocoa butter crystals, cool to 82-84 to form uniform crystals, work at 88-91? 

In other words, what's the best way to temper chocolate for the shiniest glaze?

Tabling will give you the best snap and shine in my experience. You might want to do a search for one of the other threads where we've discussed tempering techniques in the past.

Edited April 21, 2004 by nightscotsman (log)

[aidensnd2]

Like Neil says, it's not something that can really be decribed, even watching someone do it doesn't help much it's something you have to do over and over and over again until you get the feel of it and learn how it reacts and changes during the process.

There is a difference between shine and sheen. Tempered chocolate should have a sheen when it sets, free from streaks, not shiny but not dull.

The shine that it sounds like you are looking for comes from moulding the chocolate or spreading it on a clean shiny surface to set, acetate, plastic, etc... The chocolate side which is in contact with the shiny surface/mould will result in a shiny surface on the chocolate, the other side of the chocolate will have a sheen.

Just my $.02

Dan

[thegreatdane]

Okay, got the shiney/sheen difference. Thanks.

Last weekend, I tempered some choc. to cover some brownies. What a hassle, scraping it off each brownie to make a thin coating. (Any tips there for thin coating without all the scraping? Adding cocoa butter to choc?) Anyway, some of them looked spectacular the next day, with a beautiful sheen. Some, however, took on some cocoa bloom. I dipped room temp brownies in 90º F chocolate and left at room temp. (about 75º F) What happened there, please?

Thanks for your help, y'all.

Tom

[FWED]

It might be helpful for us to know what you would like to do with the tempered chocolate once it is in temper. It is one thing to dip truffles, fruit, or biscotti and another to coat a cake or brownies.

If I am going to coat a cake or cookies I usually use a chocolate glaze. This is a thin form of chocolate ganache. I make the ganache using the chocolate of my choice plus cream, and a little butter, and let it cool to about 90 degrees then I pour it over whatever I am wanting to coat. It forms a thin coating with a sheen that will eventually harden (but no snap) at room temp. I don't put the item in the refrigerator as it causes the sheen to dull. There are a number of postings concerning ganach on this forum as well as books discussing ganache as well as glazes. One book I can recommend is "The Art of Chocolate" by Elaine Gonzalez. Hope this helps

[thegreatdane]

I've done the ganache thing a couple of times, with fair results. You've got to move fast, I gather, and not make corrections. Kind of like watercolors. Everything has its technique and mastery, which takes practice, and more practice. That's not what I was trying to do with the brownies. I was trying for snap, and quite pleased with the surface. I could actually pick them up with my fingers later and it wouldn't melt immediately. It was shiney, not like glass, which I understand is not possible unless with a mold or plastic wrap - not a way I want to go. I was looking for a way to cover brownies, like a truffle, with a thin layer of tempered chocolate that would have some shine or sheen. So, I'm wondering what tricks there are for acheiving a thin layer, without scraping it off, and for avoiding cocoa bloom at 75º F room temp.

Your suggestions are most helpful and appreciated.

Tom

[tan319]

If I have to refrigerate something like a chocolate glazed mousse, etc, I hit the surface very lightly with a blowtorch to reshine it.

Works for me.

[Steve Klc]

Tom--how confident are you in your tempering--since that is a big enough challenge--rather than moving on to applications and problem solving working with tempered chocolate?

[chefette]

You can make thin shiny chocolate squares on sheets of acetate and attach them to the brownies using a spot of ganache.

When you ask about coating the brownies with shiny chocolate - is this something you saw in a picture? It sounds like glaze - which is poured over the cake or dessert and has a high glossy shine but no snap

Edited April 23, 2004 by chefette (log)

[aidensnd2]

Okay, I think I understand what you are wanting to do. Basically you want a brownie that has a thin layer of hard set chocolate on top, correct?

Thin the chocolate with cocoa butter. It might be easier to pour the chocolate over the brownies before they are cut to get a thin coat, letting the excess run over the side. Just remember to cut them before the chocolate sets completely or it may crack when you do.

As for the fat bloom, your chocolate might have been a bit too warm, try letting it cool down a couple more degrees. Did you dip a test strip first? Were the brownies totally cool before you coated them?

Let us know how it goes.

Dan

[tanabutler]

I have no comment except to express my amusement at your witty thread title.

[jsolomon]

You may also want to look at the temperature of the room you're tempering the chocolate in. If the room is warmer, the chocolate will cool more slowly, and that will help it to reach a better sheen. At least, that's what my sensibilities tell me.

Best of luck!

[Samaki]

You may also want to look at the temperature of the room you're tempering the chocolate in. If the room is warmer, the chocolate will cool more slowly, and that will help it to reach a better sheen. At least, that's what my sensibilities tell me.

Best of luck!

I don't know about that. In my experience when chocolate cools too slowly it tends to lose its temper. My anser to the blooming problem would be to cool the dipped brownies in the fridge.

[nightscotsman]

The thing is, if the chocolate is blooming it is out of temper regardless of temperature. I'll say it again - chocolate is tempered when it's tempered and the correct temperature can vary from brand to brand. Do not rely on imprecise and fickle thermometers. Making test strips is the only way to know for sure if you have temper.

[Samaki]

The thing is, if the chocolate is blooming it is out of temper regardless of temperature. I'll say it again - chocolate is tempered when it's tempered and the correct temperature can vary from brand to brand. Do not rely on imprecise and fickle thermometers. Making test strips is the only way to know for sure if you have temper.

Trust me on this, I temper chocolate for a living. If the room is too warm, and/or the chocolate is too thick (i.e. it cools too slowly), it can go out of temper, even if it started out in perfect temper.

I also think you're being a bit extreme in your denouncement of thermometers. They can be very useful, though I do agree that they are no substitute for knowing what the chocolate should look and feel like.

[Steve Klc]

I think you may be reading too much into Neil's point Samaki--he wouldn't be saying that to you, to someone who tempers chocolate for a living. We know a "cool" room is important and preferable than going into the fridge. He's saying it this way to someone who he isn't convinced knows how to temper consistently--someone who hasn't gotten over the learning curve, the tempering school of hard knocks--yet is asking more advanced questions, trying to solve problems which may or may not need solving if he hasn't nailed tempering. I'm with you, by the way, on helping along that initial cooling down process--but even that if mishandled--can confuse the issue. So I think that's all that's behind what Neil is saying--and you know putting chocolate into the fridge would still lead to bloom or could shock the chocolate as well--and that magnifies the confusion, the chance of error--for a beginner not sure of "temper" in the first place, no? I said much the same thing early on about not running before you're sure you can walk.

Thermometers can be too much of a crutch for beginners. But once you get over that hurdle, I think we'd all agree that using a thermometer is a personal choice--depending on what I'm doing I often have my infared handy--it's fast, but I also have done it enough and used different chocolates enough to know fairly intuitively how the room temp is going to affect my work, cool or warm, how the brand I have melted and tempered will work, what needs to go into the fridge, what doesn't, etc, as you do. But that's tough to explain to someone just starting out, trying to rush ahead and get all the answers quickly.

[Samaki]

Point taken. My appologies for sounding so harsh.

[nightscotsman]

Point taken. My appologies for sounding so harsh.

No problem. And of course you are right that a thermometer is a useful tool. I didn't mean to throw the baby out with the bathwater. As Steve pointed out, they can be a crutch that can let you down if you rely on them exclusively. That's why we were basically forbidden to use thermometers in school when we started out tempering - and though we felt like we were working blind at first, I'm glad they forced us to learn that way. Once you get experience and have a feel for the chocolate, use whatever works for you.

[thegreatdane]

I've been out for a few days so I've missed this fascinating discussion.

I'm experimenting with a recipe idea without full knowledge of technique, with which many of the pros on this board are so disciplined and familiar, and for which they have my respect. With practice and time, I will have a much better feel for chocolate. Thanks for your suggestions.

I also wrote asking for a way to apply a thin coating of tempered chocolate to all sides of each individual brownie, like a petit four. In my limited reading, I'd run across a reference to adding cocoa butter to chocolate to thin it down. And Dan, aidensnd, suggested the same. In what proportion should I mix the two?

The recipe I made recently was a six-chocolate brownie; the sixth being the thin tempered coating. The main reason I chose six is to legitimately use the word "sex" in the name. All in fun.

Thanks everyone,

Tom

[Steve Klc]

I wouldn't add the cocoa butter for this application, Tom, and you probably shouldn't be trying to use tempered chocolate anyway, as several of us have suggested. It's just not used in a "glazing" situation, added cocoa butter can make it harder to temper, you're likely to get more bloom and such a thin "glaze" that it will show every little crack, crinkle and crevice making your end product look shitty. You actually don't seem to want tempered chocolate as shiny as glass, you don't want to temper chocolate at all, for this.

I'd go with the glazing recommendation earlier of adding a little vegetable oil if what you're really after is to replicate those little fondant covered petit fours, but with chocolate and brownies instead. There are also many other shiny chocolate glazes--in fact, much of French patisserie/entremet is all about the glaze. It will still be a problem if you have to refrigerate it after you glaze it. And Colleen's suggestion of the little tempered chocolate cutout placed on top of the brownie square would make one fine elegant and unglazed petit four--and I bet Neil you were taught this with Jacquy, no?

[thegreatdane]

If the cocoa butter would make it harder to temper I definitely don't want to go that way. When I applied the tempered chocolate to the brownies, aside from the laborious task of having to scrape each side thin, they looked great; semi-gloss and dark. They looked like Little Debbies gone to college. I'll experiment more; with veg. oil, with tops or pieces attached, but I'd really like them fully coated. Thanks for your help.

Tom

[nightscotsman]

Adding veg oil is the way to go. If you add just a bit, it will thin the melted chocolate considerably and make it pourable, but it will still set firm. Not quite as hard as pure chocolate, but harder than a glaze. If you still want a shiny surface, you can then attach a thin chocolate square to the top while it's still soft.

We did a lot of glazes in school, but the ones that stay glossy no matter what, also stay soft to the touch, I don't know if that's what you're looking for.

The procedure for making nice glossy squares is to use an acetate sheet and a piece of plexiglass. Dampen the plexi slightly and lay the acetate on top. Use a squeegee or plastic bowl scraper to press out the water from between the two plastics and adhere the acetate to the plexi. Make sure all of the water is wiped off of the surface. Pour a some tempered chocolate along one edge of the acetate, and using an offset spatula spread it into a very thin layer covering the sheet. Let set slightly until the surface is no longer tacky, but the chocolate is still soft. Using a ruler, a piece of slotted sheet metal (can't remember what this tool is called) or cutter from a guitar, cut squares in the chocolate, not cutting through the acetate. Immediately peel the acetate off of the plexi (before the chocoalte sets completely) and flip it over chocolate side down back on the plexi sheet. Put a sheet pan on top to weight the acetate and keep the edges of the chocolate squares from curling. Let set completely before peeling off the acetate from the chocolate - this is very important. The longer you let it set (while the cocoa butter crystals are forming their matrix), the glossier the chocolate will be. You can also make colored squares by using various methods for spreading, spraying or painting colored cocoa butter and/or white chocolate on the acetate before spreading with chocolate.