Any umami experimenters?

[Dan Ryan]

First posting on this section, but not last. Just a quick query asking if anybody has tried incorporating the fifth taste umami into their recipes. We're all familiar with sweet, sour, salt and bitter, and indeed it's vital to be aware of thse factors when balancing drinks, but I'd be interested to know if anyone has got further than my recent experiment of a couple of drops of tamari (japanese soy product) in a martini. There's potential there, for sure.

[jackal10]

Bullshots (vodka and consomme)

[KatieLoeb]

To me Umami is kind of like Santa Claus. Either you believe in it or not. I think it has a lot more potential in describing FOOD tastes as opposed to BEVERAGE tastes as I'd describe it as a "brothy" or "Protein-like" or "Protein + salty" flavor. Soy sauce, Tamari, MSG, Miso soup - all these bring Umami to mind. Not sure if it's something I'd personally find appetizing in a beverage. An olive is quite enough for me in a martini. Not sure I'd want to taste things that made me think of miso or soy in a cocktail.

[FoodZealot]

Bloody marys (tomato) with L&P Worcestershire (anchovy) is a umami classic. I also have a Thai infused vodka which I made, and I'll now have to try it with a few drops of fish sauce.

[balmagowry]

Bloody marys (tomato) with L&P Worcestershire (anchovy) is a umami classic. I also have a Thai infused vodka which I made, and I'll now have to try it with a few drops of fish sauce.

Um... you infused it with real Thais, did you?

[FoodZealot]

Unbelieveable depth of flavor!! [grin]

Of course, infused with Thai spices.

[Les Salt]

Well, umami is a term that gets used quite a bit in the wine world. But I have a Japanese friend who says the old word for "umami" used to be MSG.

[slkinsey]

Right. My understanding is that umami is the word coined by Kikunae Ikeda to describe the flavor of glutamic acid. So it is indeed the "flavor" of MSG.

Has anyone tried adding a shake of Ac'cent to a cocktail?

[evilhomer]

by far the worst concert i;ve ever seen in my life was in a rather seedy spot in ottawa (the name of which sadly escapes me, but I was there on their closing night so it doesn't really matter) where they had a variety of odd shots and cocktails, the oddest sounding of which was a shot of tequila and gravy.

[babka]

the oddest sounding of which was a shot of tequila and gravy.

can we get a subhed on this thread warning about reading on a queasy stomach?

[Les Salt]

That sounds like the time my sister deglazed the Thanksgiving turkey pan with the entire bottle of my Dad's Courvoisier.

[JAZ]

I've experimented with umami and MSG, but not with cocktails. I can say, however, that from my research on the subject, grapefruit seems to be (relatively) high in glutamates, so it might be the key in developing cocktail recipes that use that element.

As for other ingredients in cocktails that might be umami-rich, I think the savory ones are the best bets -- worcestershire sauce and beef broth, for the most common examples.l

If you're interested in what I had to write on the subject of MSG and umami, you could check out this article from the archives of the Daily Gullet: click here

I'm also presenting a two-part course on the taste and texture of foods, which will be posted on the eGullet Culinary Institute, in which I talk about umami as both a taste and a textural element in foods. If you're interested.

(Edited to take out a sentence fragment that had no business being there.)

Edited April 15, 2004 by JAZ (log)

[Dan Ryan]

Seems my regular consumption of bloody marys, bullshots and bloody bulls (tequila, tomato juice, beef stock, spices) had slipped my mind. There's a lot of useful stuff on umami out there on the web (for those who aren't familiar, fermented soy, seaweed, parmesan, dashi, mushrooms, peas and tomatoes all have umami character), but I didn't know about grapefruits, which are one of my favourite cocktail ingredients. E.g. the mainbrace (gin, triple sec, grapefruit juice in equal measures, a lovely pale pink colour if you use ruby grapefruit). I'm still interested in the tamari martini though.

[Carlovski]

Bring on the Meatini!

[thursdaynext]

That sounds like the time my sister deglazed the Thanksgiving turkey pan with the entire bottle of my Dad's Courvoisier.

[trillium]

Right. My understanding is that umami is the word coined by Kikunae Ikeda to describe the flavor of glutamic acid. So it is indeed the "flavor" of MSG.

Has anyone tried adding a shake of Ac'cent to a cocktail?

Not just a flavor...some of the actual receptors responsible for triggering the umami taste are cloned too.

In general, anything preserved as plenty of free glutamates in it. Glutamate is a fairly abundant amino acid in most proteins, and when the foodstuff is preserved, proteins tend to break down and give off free glutamate. We know preserved meats (salami, hams etc) and aged cheeses have tons of free glutamates, so do dried mushrooms, soya and fish sauces, anchovies, etc., I'm guessing olives are pretty high too. I like garnishing martinis made with fairly strong gin and a generous amount of vermouth with Spanish anchovy stuffed olives, so if I want umami, I'd go that route instead of just dumping in some MSG.

regards,

trillium

[bostonapothecary]

i've been thinking about classifying aromas lately.

we first start to classify aromas that are part of a flavor in terms of gustation. so its easy to have "sweet" aromas which can increase the perception of sweetness in a mixture. dividing all the anti-sweet aromas is where things get tricky. its very hard to say which aromas are sour and which are bitter, but we do know that many people say "that smells sour" so there is a great chance they truly perceive it as sour. i have ridden down the street and smelled freshly mowed weeds which elicit an intense bitter sensation in my mouth...

more to the point. if you believe in classifying aromas in terms of gustation can any aromas be classified as umami?

when i encounter aromas like tequila, rhum agricole, or certain peruvian piscos, i cannot seem to call their aromas sweet nor any other gustatory division. they don't seem to create the same sort of aesthetic tension in drinks when i swap a rye for a rhum agricole yet the results are always beautiful & delicious.

many people describe these spirits as oily or viscous which is something that is often associated with umami. the viscosity seems to be perceived and not exactly "real" and quantifiable.

umami is also associated with fermentation and fermented products like "meaty" fermented olives and some people describe certain unaged rum agricoles as having an aroma akin to olives but with different tonality.

does it require gustatory tastants to produce umami or have we been dealing with part of the umami spectrum all along via aroma?

[mkayahara]

more to the point. if you believe in classifying aromas in terms of gustation can any aromas be classified as umami?

My guess is that, inasmuch as all aromas are classified in terms of flavour only associatively (cinnamon is a sweet spice in European cooking, but presumably either sweet or savoury in North African cooking), there must be some aromas that can be classified as umami. I was thinking of this just the other night, actually, as I had made up a batch of dashi for miso soup, and I stuck my nose over the pot and inhaled. My tummy rumbled, and I thought to myself, "That's what umami smells like." Smelling a bag of dried shiitake mushrooms produces the same reaction.

I'm not sure I've ever had any cocktail ingredients that I'd identify as having a strong "umami" aroma. Then again, I've never looked for it. I can certainly see tequila and certain rums as being a good place to start.

[bostonapothecary]

My guess is that, inasmuch as all aromas are classified in terms of flavour only associatively (cinnamon is a sweet spice in European cooking, but presumably either sweet or savoury in North African cooking)

i'm not so sure i believe the extend to which these things are learned and culturally relative. vanilla is also said to be sweet in western culture but savory to easterners.

but for starters what exactly does savory mean? not sweet; but we tend to be absolutists about it. "savory" dishes have sweetness, but they are more highly contrasted than non savory dishes like desserts. the savory word is too general and probably should be given up for multiple words that can better describe the tension because there are so many options. different cultures seem to develop favorites.

so in eastern cultures vanilla is likely a sweet aroma, but also is always used in a highly contrasted manner. if you perceived with a synthetic strategy you will associate vanilla with the contrast which dominates, but if you perceive analytically you will separate vanilla from the contrasts and maybe realize that it provided sweetness. all flavors revolve around contrasting sweetness (via gustation or aroma or so my theory goes...) and the greater the contrast, the greater the acquired taste.

i probably cannot reduce vanilla to something so elemental because it is likely self contrasted with its own umami.

i have a hard time with the eastern savory ethic. it seems so sweet to me, but my friends tell me i only encounter eastern food abstracted to the wrong ethic. everything i get is supposedly touristy and created for americans, made for snapple country, the land of no acquired tastes.

Edited November 14, 2010 by bostonapothecary (log)