Is Indian Food finally "hot"

[ms. victoria]

I agree that Indian food has taken off in England if this new(ish) chain, Tiffin Bites, is any indication.

[Episure]

The Biriyani Merchant

Seems to have its possibilities, and could find a niche in rice-eating countries.

Maybe Episure can comment, he's in Bangalore.

Their PR people had invited me but I couldnt go for the launch. I have now discovered that the place is a 5 minute walk for me and I intend to try it out. From what I have heard it's supposed to be nice.

[Monica Bhide]

The Biriyani Merchant

Seems to have its possibilities, and could find a niche in rice-eating countries.

Maybe Episure can comment, he's in Bangalore.

Their PR people had invited me but I couldnt go for the launch. I have now discovered that the place is a 5 minute walk for me and I intend to try it out. From what I have heard it's supposed to be nice.

Episure.. do give us the rundown after you try it

[Episure]

Is Indian food Hot?

On a broader perspective, I think Asian foods are definitely hot and in this run up, Indian food is definitely up there.

As I had posted a year ago it needs to be 'tweaked' if it's proliferation is to be accelerated. At that time I could get only Suvir to agree with me and sure enough his restaurant 'Amma' is proof.

This required leap is much more complex than just reducing spice and heat levels that's why it hasnt 'arrived' yet.

[Pan]

Episure, what did and do you mean by "tweaked"? Also, I take it you're discussing the climate for Asian cuisines in the U.S.? I think that in order to avoid confusion, we always have to make sure to specify which region of the world we're discussing, as eGullet is a global site.

[Episure]

By proliferation I meant the Occident especially Europe and US in the short term.

I realise there are many serious cuisine enthusiasts who can brave authentic cuisine but for every one there are hundreds possibly thousands who feel intimidated. It is this segment that has to be targeted.

Tweaked is a very subjective word that I have used and many people will fall prey to terming it fusion. Perhaps Nouvelle Indienne? This will then pave the way for real Indian cuisine.

It is certain that this will happen, my concern is how to make it happen faster.

[Pan]

Indian-"Western" fusion was evident to me at Amma only in several of the desserts and the wine pairings. Was there something "fusion" about any of the savory dishes?

[Episure]

I'm afraid I havent eaten at ammas and have only referred to it's menu. The others may be able to comment.

I think Ammas has smartly balanced it's menu to please everyone.

[mongo_jones]

I'm afraid I havent eaten at ammas and have only referred to it's menu. The others may be able to comment.

I think Ammas has smartly balanced it's menu to please everyone.

ah well, suvir is no longer at amma--so that one experiment that we know of may no longer be applicable.

[Episure]

How is that?

[mongo_jones]

Indian-"Western" fusion was evident to me at Amma only in several of the desserts and the wine pairings. Was there something "fusion" about any of the savory dishes?

pan,

not having eaten at amma either i can't speak to the actual tastes but one of the ways in which amma is "fusion" is in its approach to serving and presenting the food. correct me if i'm wrong (i'm going on pictures from people's meals here) but the food is not served family-style. certain of the dishes--as described on the menu-- also seem to me to be "fusion" in the sense that they marry indian flavors with non-indian cooking techniques--the stuffed tandoori chicken legs might be one, and the tandoor lamb chops with the pear chutney etc. might be another; definitely the apricot stuffed lamb fillets.

but you're right, the bulk of the menu is not fusion.

mongo

[mongo_jones]

How is that?

it was reported in the new york media (in the times and other places) that suvir and hemant have left amma. for some reason discussion of this topic on the new york forum has been stopped, but i can't imagine mentioning the fact of their departure here can be a violation.

[Pan]

Mongo, you're right about the presentations: They were not family style and had an attractive appearance that seems influenced by Euro-American haute cuisine.

Is serving tandoori food with chutney very unusual? I didn't know that.

[mongo_jones]

Is serving tandoori food with chutney very unusual? I didn't know that.

well, it is and isn't. it is common to get kababs with some sort of mint and/or yogurt sauce/chutney. but as far as i know eating grilled lamb with fruit based chutneys/preserves/jellies is not a particularly north-indian thing. but i could be totally wrong about this.

[mongo_jones]

What's wrong with calling a kathi roll simply (zimbly?) an "Indian hot dog", one wonders.

However, I've yet to recover from seeing vadai described on a menu as "savory donuts", so perhaps I shouldn't wish for things I can't handle.

or a dosa an "indian crepe". personally i refer to crepes as "french dosas"

this from a review of the d.c restaurant indique:

"For dessert, try the Gulab Jamun--fried beignets in a scented syrup"

[whippy]

for food to get really hot in the u.s., there has to be a celeberity chef. culinary innovation that takes root here always starts with the chefs, and their ability to manipulate the media. i'm not saying this is a good thing, but i think it's the way it is. julia child and alice waters are the classic heavy hitters in this regard, and "ethnic" foods that are big have faces represented regularly in the magazines and on t.v. : morimoto, batali, yan, etc.

raji in memphis, before she passed away, was raising the visibility of indian chefs, and madhur jaffrey has made some inroads, but her lack of association with a restaurant hurts her. floyd cardoz isn't on the radar at all.

the media is really focused on ny and la, too. so, celeberity chef, with a fancy restaurant in one of the big cities. 15 years after that, Akbar's Grill in a suburb near you.

[anil]

Is serving tandoori food with chutney very unusual? I didn't know that.

well, it is and isn't. it is common to get kababs with some sort of mint and/or yogurt sauce/chutney. but as far as i know eating grilled lamb with fruit based chutneys/preserves/jellies is not a particularly north-indian thing. but i could be totally wrong about this.

To elaborate on this - In IST (istanbul) most kebobs are not done in a tandoor, they are grilled in a charcoal, or open fire - they do serve it with what one would call condiments. So is true in Greece; On good introspective day, I don't even know if a "tandoor" was really "indian" ? Morrocoan ? Algerian ?

[mongo_jones]

for food to get really hot in the u.s., there has to be a celeberity chef. culinary innovation that takes root here always starts with the chefs, and their ability to manipulate the media. i'm not saying this is a good thing, but i think it's the way it is. julia child and alice waters are the classic heavy hitters in this regard, and "ethnic" foods that are big have faces represented regularly in the magazines and on t.v. : morimoto, batali, yan, etc.

raji in memphis, before she passed away, was raising the visibility of indian chefs, and madhur jaffrey has made some inroads, but her lack of association with a restaurant hurts her. floyd cardoz isn't on the radar at all.

the media is really focused on ny and la, too. so, celeberity chef, with a fancy restaurant in one of the big cities. 15 years after that, Akbar's Grill in a suburb near you.

whippy,

i think you're talking about a different kind of hotness--a more haute hot. as far as indian restaurants go at this point pretty much every mid-size town in the u.s seems to have one. but everywhere they are (with the exception of the major metros and college towns) they're mostly "exotic" dining out options. whereas chinese and mexican (and japanese in the yoshinoya incarnation) have almost become regular american food, even in places where there are very few people of chinese, mexican or japanese descent. it is this leap that indian food is still very far away from making in my estimation--and if it happens i don't think it will have too much to do with celebrity chefs; it is likelier to happen when a true indian-american cuisine emerges--as bhelpuri suggests it will likely come from people who are not obsessed with creating "authentic" indian food. a couple more generations, i think. and once it is upon us foodies (like we on egullet) will likely scoff at it like we do at taco bell or panda inn or the olive garden :-)

mongo

[whippy]

mongo, are we doomed to fight forever, across the stars and over time? i don't want to.

i'm a firm believer, but not supporter of the idea, that "with the exception of the major metros and the college towns" even chinese and mexican is considered "exotic." we're talking about rural americans. i'm related to some of them, and it's not pretty.

my idea of hotness definitely doesn't mean becoming "almost regular american food." regular american food is often fairly tepid. regular american -chinese and -mexican food in particular is gross. what could be more boring?

my idea of hotness sees restaurants which offer a VERY well executed cuisine, at a higher price range, with good service, some creativity, and great setting. indian restaurants in america haven't yet done this. i want them to.

mongo, if you are ever in portland, let me know. i can't deal with this. i want to have lunch with you.

whippy

[mongo_jones]

mongo, are we doomed to fight forever, across the stars and over time? i don't want to.

i'm a firm believer, but not supporter of the idea, that "with the exception of the major metros and the college towns" even chinese and mexican is considered "exotic." we're talking about rural americans. i'm related to some of them, and it's not pretty.

my idea of hotness definitely doesn't mean becoming "almost regular american food." regular american food is often fairly tepid. regular american -chinese and -mexican food in particular is gross. what could be more boring?

my idea of hotness sees restaurants which offer a VERY well executed cuisine, at a higher price range, with good service, some creativity, and great setting. indian restaurants in america haven't yet done this. i want them to.

mongo, if you are ever in portland, let me know. i can't deal with this. i want to have lunch with you.

whippy

whippy, whippy, we are having productive, partial disagreements over things of mutual interest--we aren't fighting! come on now.

[BBhasin]

What's wrong with calling a kathi roll simply (zimbly?) an "Indian hot dog", one wonders.

However, I've yet to recover from seeing vadai described on a menu as "savory donuts", so perhaps I shouldn't wish for things I can't handle.

Please Please DONT. Describe it as 'an Indian hot dog' but dont call it that.

Its wrong education. Many are the times that customers ( non Indians) come to my restaurant and want Chicken Akbar or Bombay or something else we cannot figure out. When we ask him to describe it, turns our its simply chicken curry or butter chicken or something simple that some restauraunt he patronised re-christened. Tamoto soup is tomato soup the world over so lets call a Kathi a kathi and leave it at that

[Pan]

but everywhere they are (with the exception of the major metros and college towns) they're mostly "exotic" dining out options. whereas chinese and mexican (and japanese in the yoshinoya incarnation)

The what?

[mongo_jones]

but everywhere they are (with the exception of the major metros and college towns) they're mostly "exotic" dining out options. whereas chinese and mexican (and japanese in the yoshinoya incarnation)

The what?

yoshinoya beef bowl--just a west coast thing?

[Sleepy_Dragon]

Not just that, but only in California as well as far as the US is concerned:

http://www.yoshinoyausa.com/

I ate this in Los Angeles once. Rather have that than McDonald's, but even so...

Pat