Pâte de Fruits (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies) (Part 1)

[Kerry Beal]

That looks wonderful!

I think I'd like to make these, or at least try. A few of my clients are planning holiday open houses to show their venue space; is there a flavor that is very pale (one of them is having a winter white theme) so that the PdF could be in the winter white spirit? Something like white peach? pear? any other ideas?

Coconut, lychee, pear.

[merlicky]

A number of items in Grewling’s book use a pate de fruit along with a ganache (ex. The PB&Js). I would like to do this with blueberry - a blueberry pate de fruit with a dark chocolate ganache.

I have had 0 luck in getting the pate de fruit to turn out. Perhaps it is technique, perhaps it is ingredients, perhaps it is proportions. I have tried a number of different techniques, cooking temperatures, and cooling methods. I have tried various proportions of pectin to sugar to fruit to acid, etc… The best result I end up with is a sort of grainy jam (though once I left a little of the blueberry puree sitting out for a couple of days and it gelled up pretty good).

Any suggestions on the best way to make pate de fruits? What is the best pectin to use (this could be my main problem since I am using pectin sold for making jam, but I have heard of people using this for pates)?

[Baselerd]

I feel your pain - I've found that the problem is usually with the pectin formulation. Many recipes don't specify the brand, type, etc; which is unfortunate because from my experience different brands and formulations produce dramatically different results. Some require certain calcium ion concentrations to gel, others are sensitive to pH, and most require a specific amount of sugar. So instead of following recipes that call for "pectin" or "apple pectin", I've found that I have MUCH better luck just following the recipe cards that come with the different brands of pectin. If you want blueberry pate de fruit, just buy some pectin and use your blueberry juice according to the recipe card that comes with the pectin.

Also, it's usually best to figure out if you want high or low sugar content though, because low-sugar pectin is usually low-methoxyl and comes with a separate pouch of calcium salt to induce gelling. High methoxyl pectin gels in the presence of sugar within certain pH ranges.

[Kerry Beal]

Mike - I find that the apple pectin works the best for PDF. You can get it from Chef Rubber or L'Epicerie.

[merlicky]

Kerry, at one of the chocolate conferences you gave everyone a handout for pate de fruit proportions to use with the Boiron purees. If you use the apple pectin from Chef Rubber, and make your own puree, are these proportions still likely to work? I called them, but they didn’t seem to have any clue about proper usage with different fruits.

I’d use the Boiron purees, but I live in blueberry country and want this truffle to be one of the locally sourced flavors (and I have a bunch of frozen blueberries).

[Kerry Beal]

Yup - works fine with your own purees.

[chiantiglace]

Blueberry has enough pectin to make its own pate de fruit, you don't even need to add apple pectin if you don't want, but you can for a garuntee. And typically the most commonly used pectins are apple pectin and citrus pectin (pectin juane). Test the firmness of your pate de fruit with ice water. Use a spoon to extract a small amount, place it in the ice water until cool and touch it for firmness. Continue cooking the pate until you get the texture you want. You can also quickly strain the pate right before setting it to remove the graininess. Also, the myth about it being irreversible is simply that, a myth. You can gently melt down the pate de fruit and continue cooking, once its in liquid form, to your desired texture.

[Kerry Beal]

Blueberry has enough pectin to make its own pate de fruit, you don't even need to add apple pectin if you don't want, but you can for a garuntee. And typically the most commonly used pectins are apple pectin and citrus pectin (pectin juane). Test the firmness of your pate de fruit with ice water. Use a spoon to extract a small amount, place it in the ice water until cool and touch it for firmness. Continue cooking the pate until you get the texture you want. You can also quickly strain the pate right before setting it to remove the graininess. Also, the myth about it being irreversible is simply that, a myth. You can gently melt down the pate de fruit and continue cooking, once its in liquid form, to your desired texture.

Not all pectins are reversible.

[Kerry Beal]

30 seconds in the microwave - a bit of bubbling - measures 74º C

Total of 60 seconds in the microwave - 113º C - falling apart - but not melted.

[emmalish]

I'm late to the party, but I've been attempting to make pate de fruit the last week or so. I've been using the old Boiron instructions for raspberry (thanks Kerry!), using my own purée.

The first time I tried was a complete bust because I didn't know there were different kinds of pectin (oops). So I ordered a bag of slow set apple pectin from Qzina. When it came, it was clearly labelled "jam pectin" (with a helpful photo of a jar of jam). I looked up the manufacturer's website and it states "Our pectin is specially designed to jellify and stabilize jam or for making "Pate de Fruit". And the label states "100% Apple Pectin." So I decided to give it a try.

First attempt came out thick and jammy, and it didn't set up properly. I thought that might have been my fault because when I added the bulk of the sugar the temperature dropped below 185°F (one of the hints on the Boiron sheet). So I tried again and paid careful attention to the temperatures. Nope. Same thing happened. It began thickening as soon as I added the pectin. But it doesn't gel completely and I'm still able to pour it even after adding the lemon juice @ the end (although gloopy) and wrangle it into the pan. I cooked it a bit longer this time around and it seems to be setting up better (to soon to tell for sure).

I've been adding the pectin after the fruit purée reaches a boil, but before the bulk of the sugar, per the Boiron sheet. I'm wondering whether I should try adding it towards the end of the process instead. In Greweling's At Home, the pectin isn't added until all the other ingredients reach the final temperature, but that recipe is formulated for supermarket pectin, so I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Any ideas? Advice?

[Kerry Beal]

dhardy123 and I were never able to get the jam pectin to make a decent PDF. I got it from Baker's Warehouse. You can get stuff from Snowcap where you are - perhaps buy some pectin from them?

[emmalish]

I just contacted Qzina and they do carry a pate de fruit pectin. My fault - when I searched their system I was looking for "apple pectin" and only the slow set and a reversible pectin showed up. I'll give it another shot. Hopefully I can try this weekend.

What I made last night did end up setting perfectly, and it's definitely going to be edible, but the texture is all wrong. I'm happy to know that the problem isn't just me really sucking at making pate de fruit.

Edited December 4, 2012 by emmalish (log)

[Jim D.]

My apple pectin and tartaric acid arrived today from Chef Rubber, and so I made my first try at pâte de fruit. I used Notter's recipe and some mango purée I had. The result isn't bad, but I'm not sure why it worked. I didn't have enough sugar on hand--and also thought the amount given in the chart for various fruits that Notter includes was incredibly great. So I used what sugar I had and increased the amount of glucose a bit (I was only experimenting and fully expected a total failure). I got the mixture close to the 221F. called for, but it was getting really thick, so I took it off the heat and poured it. It thickened immediately, but the texture isn't too rubbery. The flavor is OK, though I think you would have to tell people it's mango (but to me mango is a somewhat subtle flavor). It has a nice tang, not too sweet. But why did it succeed? I probably used 1/4 of the sugar in the recipe and not a lot of extra glucose. I think it would have too sweet to eat if I had used all the sugar. Is pâte supposed to be very sweet? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Kerry Beal]

My apple pectin and tartaric acid arrived today from Chef Rubber, and so I made my first try at pâte de fruit. I used Notter's recipe and some mango purée I had. The result isn't bad, but I'm not sure why it worked. I didn't have enough sugar on hand--and also thought the amount given in the chart for various fruits that Notter includes was incredibly great. So I used what sugar I had and increased the amount of glucose a bit (I was only experimenting and fully expected a total failure). I got the mixture close to the 221F. called for, but it was getting really thick, so I took it off the heat and poured it. It thickened immediately, but the texture isn't too rubbery. The flavor is OK, though I think you would have to tell people it's mango (but to me mango is a somewhat subtle flavor). It has a nice tang, not too sweet. But why did it succeed? I probably used 1/4 of the sugar in the recipe and not a lot of extra glucose. I think it would have too sweet to eat if I had used all the sugar. Is pâte supposed to be very sweet? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Pate de fruit uses a ton of sugar - it's very sweet - but part of the function of the tartaric is to counteract that a bit. It likely succeeded due to pectin and acid - it might not have a good shelf life.

[Jim D.]

My apple pectin and tartaric acid arrived today from Chef Rubber, and so I made my first try at pâte de fruit. I used Notter's recipe and some mango purée I had. The result isn't bad, but I'm not sure why it worked. I didn't have enough sugar on hand--and also thought the amount given in the chart for various fruits that Notter includes was incredibly great. So I used what sugar I had and increased the amount of glucose a bit (I was only experimenting and fully expected a total failure). I got the mixture close to the 221F. called for, but it was getting really thick, so I took it off the heat and poured it. It thickened immediately, but the texture isn't too rubbery. The flavor is OK, though I think you would have to tell people it's mango (but to me mango is a somewhat subtle flavor). It has a nice tang, not too sweet. But why did it succeed? I probably used 1/4 of the sugar in the recipe and not a lot of extra glucose. I think it would have too sweet to eat if I had used all the sugar. Is pâte supposed to be very sweet? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Pate de fruit uses a ton of sugar - it's very sweet - but part of the function of the tartaric is to counteract that a bit. It likely succeeded due to pectin and acid - it might not have a good shelf life.

Thanks for the quick reply. I just tasted it again and am liking the tartness. I will try the recipe with some pear purée and use the amount of sugar suggested. I'll also take a look at the Boiron proportions and see if they are more or less the same. Speaking of Boiron, did you know that L'Epicerie has quit carrying them and now offers a different brand?

Another question: how thick should the mixture be when it is removed from the heat? Mine was on the edge of not being pourable. But I would think more sugar would have made it even thicker.

[Edward J]

Thickness has a lot to do with the fiber content on the fruit. Mangoes and raspberries, for instance have a lot of fiber. If you put in the tartaric acid/cream of tartar at the last possible moment, the mix is easier to pour as opposed to putting it in mid-boil.

Yeah, yeah the sugar, I know, a lot of it. However pate de fruit is shelf stable and has a very long shelf life--think of of it as jam with extra pectin. A lot of the recipies have all that sugar to extend the shelf life. The corn syrup is used as a "doctoring agent"--to prevent crystalization of all that sugar, it' s usually around 10% of the sugar weight.

Many of the fruit puree companies have extensive information about pate de fruit on their websites--Boiron comes to mind, and have recipies for all of their fruit purees, as well as "modified" recipies using apple juice as well as other fruit. It is interesting to look at.

[Kerry Beal]

Indeed you see differences in 'thickness' with different fruits. But I do find by the time it reaches 107º C it is pretty darn thick.

One interesting thing I find is that the risk of scorching seems to happen early in the boil and drops off as it thickens up for some reason.

There is a stall somewhere between 103 and 107 and it takes forever for it to climb those last couple of degrees.

[Jim D.]

I'm still thinking about PdF with less sugar. It would seem the taste of the fruit would be fresher than my experiment with mango PdF made using apple pectin (I threw out the remnants today). I have reread all the threads on PdF. There does not appear to be any definitive answer to successful PdF, unless one wants to use a huge amount of sugar and apple pectin. But I was intrigued by the discussion (http://forums.egulle...at-is-g-pectin/) in which tammylc discussed experimenting with Pomona's pectin, a pectin that requires much less sugar. I am wondering if others have tried it and if in fact it produces PdF that tastes more like the fruit from which it is made. There is not the large number of recipes using Pomona's that there is for apple pectin. Obviously one needs a recipe as dependable as those using apple pectin (from Boiron and Albert Uster, for example).

 

 

Host's note: this topic is part of a larger topic that is split into parts in order to reduce the load on our servers.  

The next part is here: Pâte de Fruits (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies) (Part 2).

Edited May 18, 2016 by Smithy
Added host's note (log)