Bouley

[gmi3804]

I still think the true test of a Great Restaurant is how everyone is treated.  I remember a couple years back in the NY Times Ruth Reichl's two reviews of Le Cirque:  one if you were "somebody" and one if you were "nobody."  They were two different reviews altogether.

It's funny - I mentioned the Ruth Reichl review of Le Cirque 2000 tonight in another thread as being one of the great restaurant reviews of all times. For precisely the reason you stated. On the one occasion I went to Le Cirque 2000 - I happened to be a guest of someone special - and I got lots of lobster in the lobster risotto (everything else was wonderful too). I've been afraid to go back there on my own - fearing that Ruth Reichl wasn't wrong - and that the lobster risotto won't have any lobster in it.

The "somebody"/"nobody" dichotomy is interesting. We have sometimes been on the winning side - sometimes on the losing side - of restaurants that make a distinction. In the best of all possible worlds - all fine restaurants would - as you suggest - treat all customers the same. But - unfortunately - that's not the case.

Most recently - we were at a restaurant in Miami a few weeks ago - and were treated with unusually great care by the chef in the hotel restaurant. We couldn't understand why. Turns out that I had spent a while talking with the head concierge at the hotel - exchanging stories about local food/restaurants - and he had told the chef to take care of us. That little extra attention goes a long way in my opinion - and it's too bad that only a fraction of high end restaurants deliver it to all customers. Robyn

I believe Reichl's famous double review was of the old Le Cirque.

She later gave a four-star rave to Le Cirque 2000. In this review, she visited several times, once with padding under her clothes, huge glasses, and a wig. She was treated like royalty!

Robyn, we ate at Le Cirque 2000 (as nobodys, naturally), and had an extraordinary experience. We were celebrating the ordination of our friend to the priesthood, and none other than Sirio himself came to the table and bought us a round of drinks! He also told us it was his secret wish that one of his sons had become a priest! Such a small gesture elevated the evening from superlative to unforgettable.

Edited April 10, 2004 by gmi3804 (log)

[ErinB]

I ate at Bouley about a year and a half ago. We ordered tap water (I always order tap water), the service was still impeccable.

The waiters actually screwed up by giving us extra wine (we had the wine tasting with the tasting menu) but we were fine with that.

The waiters were extremely friendly, we were cracking jokes with them by the end of the night, so unless something has changed, I can't imagine them discriminating against you because you ordered tap.

[GordonCooks]

Bouley – 4/24/2004

Saturday’s dinner at Bouley was very good. Upon a timely arrival, we were seated in the cozy corner on the right hand side of the red room. A good vantage point to view the activity of the restaurant.

Avocado mousse w cucumber, wasabi sorbet, and apple foam acc corn taco/tuile with (parmesan?) mousse:

Firm cucumber, cold sorbet, mousse and the foam synched well in flavor and texture. I like it. The taco was rather non-descript but gave it a little crunch. – B+

Tomato raspberry gelee w homemade tofu, osetra caviar, and yuzu sorbet:

Rather gelatinous and bland. I tried tasting this several ways (a little this with this and so on) but it didn’t work any way I tried it - C

Young garlic soup w organic egg and langoustine:

Very good. Judging from the heat of the plate – an organic egg is cooked in the dish, A nice portion of langoustine meat is added, and a foamy soup is added to complete. - A

Halibut in yucca skin w baby mushrooms, peas, and fava beans: The Yucca skin did nothing for the dish except complete the description. The halibut was tender and vegetables were of good quality. - B

Sea bass in yuzu dashi sauce w scallion:

The yuzu sauce was rather thick and dominated the flavor of the bass. I’m not a big fan or raw scallion but it was needed to balance this dish. – B-

Baby skate w pineapple sauce:

There was a lot more going on with this dish but the server’s description was rather confusing. I didn’t really understand what he was saying. The skate was good, I didn’t detect any pineapple. – B-

Lobster w turnip puree, green and white asparagus:

Tender tail and claw meat acc by asparagus. The white was served as a puree as well as sautéed pieces and the green was diced. Simple and effective - A

Texas Kobe beef w Asian celery puree and horseradish sauce:

Texas Kobe beef? Well, that’s what he said. He may have meant wagyu beef. The portion of beef was rather minuscule (4 slivers of about 1” by 2” and ¼” thick) and tough! If this was wagyu – it must have been shell or flatiron steak. The meat had none of the buttery type flavor in good Lobel’s wagyu or real Kobe beef. It tasted like a well-done chuck steak. - C

4-hour potato puree:

What’s the big deal? Having a waiter come over with a side plate of potato puree and dropping a spoonful on each plate? Totally pretentious but good potatoes - B

Yogurt sorbet w apple gelee and Asian pear:

I guess no one wants to say frozen yogurt but that’s what it was. Good – B+

Chocolate soufflé w chocolate, caramel, vanilla ice cream:

Another molten cake - B

White chocolate cloud:

Delicious and light. Huge spoonfuls virtually disappear in your mouth - A

Apple ginger tart w pastry crème and sour cream sorbet w lingonberry:

Familiar flavors, good – B-

Strawberry and rhubarb parfait w almond crème:

This dessert I like because it’s simple yet complex due to the almond crème - A

petits fours

The wine pairings were acceptable and highly encouraged when ordering the tasting menu. The wines by themselves were decent at best but paired well with the food

Roderer Brut , Sancerre (label was washed off), 2000 Chavy puligny montrachet, a gruner veltliner, A-Z pinot noir, 1999 Sarget de Gruaud Larose, A banyuls style Grenache.

In conclusion, I must say that I’m not having 4-star meals in 4-start restaurants. Everything was very good as a whole but I’m expecting great. Given the context of the meal and types of ingredients used. I’d rather be a nobody walking into Susur than a nobody walking into Bouley. Next time (if there is a next time) I’ll do what the table next us did; drink an old Montrachet, eat some foie gras, and order a plate of lobster.

[mikeycook]

My last dining experience at Bouley was probably 18 months ago and, while overall I probably would rate my experience then a little higher than yours, I wholeheartedly agree that the "Kobe Beef" is a disappointment, particularly when you are paying an additional for it. Sounds like something that should come off the menu entirely. Over the years I have enjoyed a number of meals at Bouley, and the Kobe Beef is probably the biggest clunker I have had (and it was the same preparation).

[Jinmyo]

Yucca skin? Whatever for?

[GordonCooks]

Yucca skin? Whatever for?

who knows - it looked more like the fermented tofu pockets my mom stuffs with sushi rice and yellow radish. I ate around it none the less.

[vivin]

I had a very similar experience about year and a half ago. Good but not great.

OTOH, I had lunch at Jean Georges. The spring menu in the main dining room had a couple of knockout fish dishes.

[kurl]

OTOH, I had lunch at Jean Georges. The spring menu in the main dining room had a couple of knockout fish dishes.

Amanda?

[worldtoughmilkman]

Maybe David had some of those less talented Wegman's chefs in his kitchen Gordon.

[lxt]

Bouley treated me in a chameleon-like fashion in the past with wild “mood swings” that either charmed with unexpectedly marvelous delights or distressed with dishes that diverged in directions barely perceived acceptable. To our surprise, our average expectations this time were not met, and the dinner left a mark as one of the most enjoyable meals of this year.

There is a common expression in Russian, describing early autumn, “babie leto” (translated as “women’s summer”). Indeed, the tantalizing smell of apples, taking me aback every time I enter Bouley’s small foyer, welcoming and warm, rustic and sophisticated at the same time, reminds me of Balzac’s favorite women of grace and elegance yet also the comfort and confidence of their life experience, with naturally rosy tints on their pallid faces from the excitement of cotillons past, and eyes kindled by the knowledge of love and pleasures of life just like the sight and scent of perfect autumn apples. It puts one in an appreciative mood and forces him to halt for more of this alluring fragrance only to be awakened by the restaurant guests following him behind.

I actively dislike the pink glossy ceiling of the main room, but at night, it takes on a rich, plush Bordeaux color and stresses the occasional sparkles of the stained glass chandelier, gracing the room with rustic flair, decorated with glass fruit and vegetables occasionally making a gentle ring as they clash in the current of air created by rushing waiters.

The big, round table for four, with a flattering view of the whole room, was set for two side-by-side, and was, I thought, the best in the house, located right across from the kitchen by the window. We decided not to choose dinner prix-fixe or the chef’s menu and built our own tasting consisting of five appetizers, two mains and two desserts. I did not enjoy the strong notes of citrus acidity that dominated some of Bouley’s dishes on my previous visits, and attempted to choose items seemingly lacking a citrus element or offset by other ingredients. However, I need not have been concerned as the balance of almost all dishes was well equilibrated.

Homemade Silk Tofu with Heirloom Tomato Coulis, Raspberry-Mustard Oil, Yuzu Sorbet and Oscetra Caviar was an unexpected, gentle delight, a tension releasing prelude -- a lyrical passage of all the ingredients merged into one atmospheric solo. A small rectangular tofu competing in shape with off-white oval sorbet and a generous dollop of black caviar “pearls” rested in a vibrant tomato soup, sweet and thick, almost gelatinized with a very distinct taste of tomato, foreign sweetness of raspberries and placid herbal fragrance of lemon thyme. If you let the dish absorb its flavors in silence without disturbing each flavor individually, the chorus would turn into a unison of one, new, unidentifiable essence of spring, freshness and delicacy. Hurry, and before the amalgamation completes, try each element separately and watch how the sharply acidic yuzu sorbet with strong herbal tones melts and integrates with the sweetness of the tomato coulis, and the salty caviar loses its brine, balancing the other flavors and adding additional body to the silky, smooth but bland custard (similar to Citarella’s tofu with uni dish one could order from the sushi bar). This dish epitomized balance and elegance -- a “performance” I wished would never end.

Braised Japanese Yellowtail with Melon, Hon Shimeji Mushrooms and a Ginger Aromatic Sauce.

There was nothing in this dish, existing on Bouley’s menu for years, that screamed for attention. All ingredients, in their alliance of sea and earth, gently enlivened each other creating a result that was not under or overexposed. A round, thin cut of braised, smooth, light hamachi was soft in texture but failed to retain its natural buttery sweetness and would’ve been bland if not for the tenderly spiked ginger foam, gentle touch of several thin, sweet, fresh pieces of melon, and perfectly-shaped, firm hon shimeji mushrooms -- mildly sweet, earthy and nutty. If you stop for a second, and let all flavors mingle, the result will be beautifully modulated; if you rush, the dish may turn out to be plain. It was a very pleasant transition after the silk tofu appetizer, but I am not sure I would’ve enjoyed this dish as a solo starter as much.

Seared New York State Foie Gras with Whole Roasted Organic Rhubarb, Pearls of Organic Mango, Foie Gras Terrine and Red Wine Rhubarb Purée.

This was a more robust appetizer with the full-bodied flavor of perfectly done foie gras, revealing smooth, tender flesh under the thin, lightly crisp “skin” accented by its own juce with the tingling acidity of wine offset by the temperate sweetness of the beige rhubarb and apple purée. Tiny pearls of mango, mingled with the purée, exhibited only a slightly firmer texture than the purée but didn’t fully echo the compact feel of mango. As it appeared, the mango went through some substantial processing before achieving its final “pearly” state: From the description given by our captain, it was puréed and processed through a screen into a slightly acidic bath which completed the formation of the perfectly rounded, tiny pearls. It was clever and delightful. A small cut of flavorful goose foie gras mousse wrapped in a thin, almost transparent sheet of puff pastry on the side of the plate rounded out the composition. I enjoyed this appetizer, which burst with flavors, after the subtleness of the tofu and braised yellowtail.

Let purists forgive my seditious thought, but I sincerely believe that the common Russian saying, ironically, “Don’t look in your neighbor’s plate” shouldn’t apply to restaurants as it would deprive one of the pleasure of observing, which represents such a natural propensity of man, a tiny world of contentment concentrated in one place at one time. Discreetly, of course, I tend to enjoy observing the room and plates, inadvertently overhearing my neighbors’ chat and absorbing the energy of other diners’ vibes of pleasure and happy times promoted by good food and pleasant environment. One of my not so successful experiences at Bouley included an order of soft shell crabs drowned in a highly acidic and vinegary(?) sauce adding unexpected dissonant notes similar to spoiled Tabasco. Naturally, I intended to avoid crabs that night, but the subtle veil of a pleasant scent trailing behind the plates with crabs, which looked monumental in their stony architectural posture, carried by waiters from table to table at a regular interval, as soft-shells seemed to be the most popular dish of the evening, provoked my curiosity strongly enough to order an additional crab appetizer.

The dish of First of the Season Chesapeake Bay Soft Shell Crab with Cape Cod Gooseberries, Texas Pink Grapefruit, and a Cannelloni of Jumbo Lump Crabmeat and Avocado was divided evenly and arranged skillfully on two plates. For some reason, cannelloni was not a part of the dish as described on the menu, but the appetizer was just wonderful, with a very restrained character and minimalist approach accenting the crab (with its sweet juices and softness under a harsh-looking, but tender and gently crisp shell) with the juicy, lemony-acidic grapefruit pulp offset by the delicate, exotic sweetness of fresh golden gooseberries, which were smooth and waxy, with orange-yellow skin and juicy flesh, reminding me of the ground husk tomatoes I bought from the Union Square market last fall. This dish was a perfect and logical conclusion of the round of appetizers.

I remember my astonishment the first time I tried poached salmon at Bouley: The barely cooked, plump, buttery flesh with tender, softly suffused flavors changed my perception of salmon, which I generally avoided ordering in restaurants previously. Naturally, I was intrigued by the salmon main course on the menu this time, and decided to repeat the experience. What a disappointment that was.

Wild Washington State King Salmon with White Hon-Shimeji Mushrooms, Pencil Asparagus, Ragout of Early Spring Fava Beans, Razor Clams and White Truffle Sauce would’ve been absolutely delightful had not the fish – resting in a wonderful fava beans purée with chopped razor clams, surrounded by fresh and crisp thin asparagus, which lackedthe deep flavor of thicker spears, but had an intense, wild, grassy and very pleasant taste, complemented by the sweet and nutty mushrooms – been slightly overdone, and drowned in a strong truffle/garlic flavor from the mashed garlic splashed across the fish and sautéed in truffle oil. A light, foamy truffle sauce accompanying the fish would’ve been just right, but the strongly flavored garlic and almost bitter taste of the truffle oil in which it was cooked literally killed this dish. I pushed the garlic mash aside, and enjoyed the fish with greater pleasure.

My consort’s choice of Line Caught Chatham Cod with Organic Sweet Garden Peas, Roasted Wild Kumamoto Oysters and a Sauce Basquaise was more successful. A subtle combination of tender, perfectly done cod (not as sweet as one can find in the winter, but pleasant nevertheless), and mildly sweet peas in a flavorful sauce was understated and balanced. The silky potatoes, served on the side, brought comfort and reassurance to the dish. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Among six desserts, aside from the gently sweet and sour apple/celery soup with fromage sorbet served in an eye-shaped dish and the green-tea crème brulée – almost liquid with just a touch of torch-burnt sugar coating on top – none deserved special notice, being mostly heavy and too sugary.

Perhaps Bouley does not epitomize fidelity to consistency and the idiosyncrasy of the dining experience may not justify the cost, but his ability to apply meticulous technique, elevating a dish to the heights of artistry with either simple or subtle palette of ingredients and imagination, where a dish, gently frilled, seems to be formed by a single stroke of effort, only slightly challenging classical canons, worth taking the risk.

We had a small kitchen tour at the end, and yet again the thought crossed my mind that what looks beautiful on the surface is more often than not born in sweat, hard work and hot air.

[Stone]

I read in the paper yesterday that Bouley failed a health inspection.

[robert40]

I'll never forget a conversation I had with a chef I worked with in the mid 90's.

One night as we were cleaning up after service and passing the time with sap rap the conversation turned to restaurants he worked at.

Bouley was one where he did a stage which sparked my intrigue and as I paused mopping for a moment to ask him what he thought of it he looked around as if he was about to commit some sin he whispered, It's Dirty!

[gmi3804]

Seared New York State Foie Gras with Whole Roasted Organic Rhubarb, Pearls of Organic Mango, Foie Gras Terrine and Red Wine Rhubarb Purée.

This was a more robust appetizer with the full-bodied flavor of perfectly done foie gras, revealing smooth, tender flesh under the thin, lightly crisp “skin” accented by its own juce with the tingling acidity of wine offset by the temperate sweetness of the beige rhubarb and apple purée.  Tiny pearls of mango, mingled with the purée, exhibited only a slightly firmer texture than the purée but didn’t fully echo the compact feel of mango.  As it appeared, the mango went through some substantial processing before achieving its final “pearly” state:  From the description given by our captain, it was puréed and processed through a screen into a slightly acidic bath which completed the formation of the perfectly rounded, tiny pearls.  It was clever and delightful.  A small cut of flavorful goose foie gras mousse wrapped in a thin, almost transparent sheet of puff pastry on the side of the plate rounded out the composition.  I enjoyed this appetizer, which burst with flavors, after the subtleness of the tofu and braised yellowtail.

This is a variation on the dish we ordered, except ours came with halved red grapes and little else. The waiter told us the rhubarb was "in the sauce" and offered to bring us some extra rhubarb "on the side." When we told him there was no rhubarb in the dish, he disappeared to the kitchen, then came back to tell us we were right, that the ingredients did not meet the chef's "quality standards" and a substitution was made. Well, it was nice of them to tell us after we brought it to their attention. The man at the table next to us had the same dish and didn't notice the mistake; I suppose it was assumed we wouldn't either.

Edited May 11, 2004 by gmi3804 (log)

[lxt]

I read in the paper yesterday that Bouley failed a health inspection.

Stone, I suppose I should've added "...what looks beautiful on the surface [and tastes so good] is more often than not born in sweat, hard work, hot air [and sometimes dirt.]"

Seared New York State Foie Gras with Whole Roasted Organic Rhubarb, Pearls of Organic Mango, Foie Gras Terrine and Red Wine Rhubarb Purée.

This was a more robust appetizer with the full-bodied flavor of perfectly done foie gras, revealing smooth, tender flesh under the thin, lightly crisp “skin” accented by its own juce with the tingling acidity of wine offset by the temperate sweetness of the beige rhubarb and apple purée.  Tiny pearls of mango, mingled with the purée, exhibited only a slightly firmer texture than the purée but didn’t fully echo the compact feel of mango.  As it appeared, the mango went through some substantial processing before achieving its final “pearly” state:  From the description given by our captain, it was puréed and processed through a screen into a slightly acidic bath which completed the formation of the perfectly rounded, tiny pearls.  It was clever and delightful.  A small cut of flavorful goose foie gras mousse wrapped in a thin, almost transparent sheet of puff pastry on the side of the plate rounded out the composition.  I enjoyed this appetizer, which burst with flavors, after the subtleness of the tofu and braised yellowtail.

This is a variation on the dish we ordered, except ours came with halved red grapes and little else. The waiter told us the rhubarb was "in the sauce" and offered to bring us some extra rhubarb "on the side." When we told him there was no rhubarb in the dish, he disappeared to the kitchen, then came back to tell us we were right, that the ingredients did not meet the chef's "quality standards" and a substitution was made. Well, it was nice of them to tell us after we brought it to their attention. The man at the table next to us had the same dish and didn't notice the mistake; I suppose it was assumed we wouldn't either.

I believe that changing dish elements on the fly, when the quality of the ingredients listed on the menu do not correspond to the chef’s standards, is common. Moreover, I’d warry to visit a restaurant that is willing to sacrifice the quality of the product only to adhere to the menu or due to a restaurant’s inability to change the printed version of the menu on time. I would probably be displeased that the service staff wasn’t aware of the replacement, but I would not consider the replacement itself or the lack of its description on the menu to be a mistake, nor would the service staff’s unawareness dramatically affect my enjoyment if the dish otherwise fulfills my expectations. In the end, the question always lies in whether you were satisfied, and whether the replacement was well balanced and played along with all the elements on the plate. If the dish succeeds after the alteration, extra points go to the chef for creativity, in my book.

Edited May 12, 2004 by lxt (log)

[gmi3804]

This is a variation on the dish we ordered, except ours came with halved red grapes and little else.  The waiter told us the rhubarb was "in the sauce" and offered to bring us some extra rhubarb "on the side."  When we told him there was no rhubarb in the dish, he disappeared to the kitchen, then came back to tell us we were right, that the ingredients did not meet the chef's "quality standards" and a substitution was made.  Well, it was nice of them to tell us after we brought it to their attention.  The man at the table next to us had the same dish and didn't notice the mistake; I suppose it was assumed we wouldn't either.

I believe that changing dish elements on the fly, when the quality of the ingredients listed on the menu do not correspond to the chef’s standards, is common. Moreover, I’d warry to visit a restaurant that is willing to sacrifice the quality of the product only to adhere to the menu or due to a restaurant’s inability to change the printed version of the menu on time. I would probably be displeased that the service staff wasn’t aware of the replacement, but I would not consider the replacement itself or the lack of its description on the menu to be a mistake, nor would the service staff’s unawareness dramatically affect my enjoyment if the dish otherwise fulfills my expectations. In the end, the question always lies in whether you were satisfied, and whether the replacement was well balanced and played along with all the elements on the plate. If the dish succeeds after the alteration, extra points go to the chef for creativity, in my book.

We've no problem with the substituting of ingredients on the fly, and love trying new things. But if the menu says one thing and we receive something substantially different, there's a problem. The waiter should have informed us. He obviously didn't know about the change (we had to bring it to his attention, and he had to check with the kitchen after opining that there was rhubarb on that dish); moreover, the kitchen didn't seem interested enough to inform him (and, by extension, us). And if a complex rhubarb sauce is substituted by halved red grapes, however fresh they are, we're going to feel slighted and underappreciated. Because in this case, it is all about me (or any diner), the paying customer.

Edited May 12, 2004 by gmi3804 (log)

[chopjwu12]

does anyone have any reservations coming up?

[chopjwu12]

I had one of teh best meals ive ever ha din new york sunday night. I work at bouley so i guess i got extra special treatment. Takign taht into account im not going to describe everydish. Im just goign to tell you are what thety were.

first- corn tuille stuffed with corn and nutmeg

second-brick cone with marinaded yellowtail micro greens and soy jelly.

third- parmesan parfait with rose olive purre and basil oil

fourth- black olive cone with blue cheese icecream

fifth- oyster with soy milk jelly, tomato jelly, trout caviar, and yuzu sorbet

6th- avacado and pea purre with fresh lump crab meat and tarragon, topped with osetra caviar

7th- armanac, and prune purre with foie ganach muscat jelly and lime foam.

8th- sardine terrine, garnished with tuna, manilla clams, paprika muscles, razer clams, and micro greens

9th- garlic soup with coconut, ginger, an organic hen egg and a new zealand langostine

10th- phyllo crusted shrimp, baby squid and a seared live diver callop served with an ocean herbal broth

11th- slow braised yellowtail with melon and an aromatic ginger sauce

12th- seared toro with shiso rice and a bonito japanese eal sauce

13th- heirloom tomato lobster with ox heart tomato sorbet and seared watermellon

14th- seare foie gras with mango caviar and rosemarry apple purre

15th- combination of seared sweet breads, and slowly cooked pig with a variety of spring veg and a sala dof japanese scallions

16th- roasted colorado lamb with ramps, favas and a truffled lamb sauce

17th- apple and celery soup with asian pear and yogurt sorbet

18th- pineapple mille fuile(sp) with passian fruit and curry ice cream

19th- chocolate brioche bread pudding with dulce de leche and coconut ice cream, the other 2 had chocolate souffle with a trio of ice creams. This is when i decide dwe have had enough.

20th- strawberry parfait and maderdise(sp)

All in all it was a great meal spent with great people. My wife, my sister and my older brother. Fun for the whoel family. I hope to see all of you at bouley very soon.

[Pan]

Sounds fabulous!

I wasn't sure I got your third course. That was a puree of rose petals and olives?

What's your job at Bouley?

[robert40]

Dave,

Dam, was you able to walk after eating all that?

Robert

[chopjwu12]

barely able to walk, rose olives are the type of olive, and im a cook

[Pan]

Thanks for the explanation, Dave.

You've mentioned before that you're a cook. I meant as in line chef, prep chef, etc.

[chopjwu12]

im the saucier, meat cook in the morning. i dont think im a soux chef because we dont hav eany right now. I would call my self the morning chef de parti. Thats what the chef de cusine calls me at least.

[Pan]

Thanks, Dave.

[EJRothman]

I have a reservation for June 17th. I haven't been able to read through this entire thread, but early on the thread a post was made (in 2002) that one could bring their own wine for a $35 corkage fee? What's the back story to this and is it still possible to do this?

-Eric

[chopjwu12]

its a rare occasion that they let people bring in wine these days. Some vips do but those that do bring bottles like a 57 pommeral. Are your reservations for dinner? If its something really special i could try to talk to them about it. Do you plan on goign tatsing?