Per Se

[WPep]

A question for you.  If I walked into Per Se, took the reservationist or manager over and handed him a 100 (not so much if I am paying 600+ for dinner) and told them that I was calling the next day, do you think I would have an advantage over those who called and were getting 5:30 or 10:30 reservations, as far as getting prime time seating?

Absolutely not. I guarantee.

Guarantee? How about I try it out, and if I do get a seating for 2 at 7:00 or 8:00 with my method, I'll take you, and you can pay.

[WPep]

The most amazing thing about the discussion about price and the value of the meal at a restaurant like per se, is the fact that no one is even mentioning the fact that Per Se could charge double that price and still NEVER MAKE MONEY. This restaurant will certainly generate tons of cash flow, and it will be profitable, but it cost $12 million to develop. Even if that is assumed to be hyperbole, then it cost $8 million. Someone (the developers) had to foot that bill, and it will take a long, long time for them to see their investment repaid. I read once where Keller took roughly 85 people per night at the laundry. If it is a similar number at Per Se, then I would venture that $7.5 million per year gross is reasonable and it will take roughly 9-12 years to repay the developer without the cost of capital being considered.

Per Se is a bargain and it is a bargain of the highest order. Ultimately, it is a marketing tool -- a loss leader -- to sell office and residential space at very high rates.

But God Bless Chef Keller for keeping the price where he has.... it could have been a lot higher.

Forgive me if I missed this in the previous pages (I did a quick search), but if Per Se the Restaurant does not make any money, then what is in it for the owner and partners? How and from where are they making it worth their while?

[robyn]

I think it is a bridge from the elegant Old World Style restaurants currently failing in NYC...

I don't think these restaurants are so much "failing" as coming to the end of their natural lives (and some lived to a very ripe old age!). Robyn

[robyn]

No different than paying jacked prices for World Series tickets.

It's completely different because there are no jacked prices at Per Se. Everybody at Per Se gets the season-ticketholders' price even though the product would be worth more on the open market. There are no inflated scalper/broker rates based on supply and demand. At the World Series, the people with the most money get the tickets. At Per Se, the tables go to those who call first, and everybody pays the same.

Well - that is not an entirely accurate analogy. The main problem being that most of the people here can't seem to get reservations after 6 or before 10. Not a problem on my part. I'm not planning a trip to NYC anytime soon - and perhaps by the time I get there - I'll be able to dine at a normal hour. Robyn

[robyn]

A question for you.  If I walked into Per Se, took the reservationist or manager over and handed him a 100 (not so much if I am paying 600+ for dinner) and told them that I was calling the next day, do you think I would have an advantage over those who called and were getting 5:30 or 10:30 reservations, as far as getting prime time seating?

Absolutely not. I guarantee.

What if you were Rudy Giuliana's personal secretary - minus the $100 bill? Robyn

[robyn]

The most amazing thing about the discussion about price and the value of the meal at a restaurant like per se, is the fact that no one is even mentioning the fact that Per Se could charge double that price and still NEVER MAKE MONEY. This restaurant will certainly generate tons of cash flow, and it will be profitable, but it cost $12 million to develop. Even if that is assumed to be hyperbole, then it cost $8 million. Someone (the developers) had to foot that bill, and it will take a long, long time for them to see their investment repaid. I read once where Keller took roughly 85 people per night at the laundry. If it is a similar number at Per Se, then I would venture that $7.5 million per year gross is reasonable and it will take roughly 9-12 years to repay the developer without the cost of capital being considered.

Per Se is a bargain and it is a bargain of the highest order. Ultimately, it is a marketing tool -- a loss leader -- to sell office and residential space at very high rates.

But God Bless Chef Keller for keeping the price where he has.... it could have been a lot higher.

Is the developer subsidizing the restaurant? Robyn

[docsconz]

I left off having only gotten through the canapes. I forgot to mention the Heidler Gruner Veltliner '02 from Austria that we had the the "Cheese and Crackers" and "Veal Oscar". This was another delightfully crisp wine that proved a superb match.

The first course of the next flight was a salad course that consisted of a white asparagus salad with truffle coulis and "confit" of rhubarb and also a beet salad with "blood" greens and beet essence. Both were excellent, although I actually preferred the beet salad by a slim margin.

Next came two different versions of moulard duck fois gras, although both were torchons. The first with "peach melba" of Frog Hollow Farms Peach jelly, pickled white peaches, marinated red onion and "Melba Toast". The second was "Chaud Froid" with endive. The fois gras was enhanced with a sprinkling of various sea salts that were placed on the table for this purpose. They included fleur de sel, malden sea salt, frencg sel gris, two hawaiian salts including a red salt and another I can't think of at the moment. Both fois were superb marriages and worked beautifully with a 2002 Scheurebe Spatlese from Theo Mindes.

The principle fish course was next and although quite fine, this course was probably the least favorite of the evening, at least for me. Now don't get me wrong, it too was delicious. Least favorite is a relative thing. There were zero clunkers here. Anyway the two presentations were roasted Monkfish medallion, poached monkfish cheek, sunburst squash and California bay-leaf infused San Marzano tomato sauce. This dish was good, but the subtlety of the cheek was lost on me. The other tasting was of fluke with a coating of finess herbs mousse and fin herbes "vin". I enjoyed this a bit more than the monkfish.

Perhaps the previous course lags in my mind because the next was my favorite. It consisted of two versions of lobster "sous vide". The first was a classic combination of prime butter poached lobster tail with saffron vanilla sauce and wilted spinach. As I said this was a classic combination of flavors prepared in a way that was new to me. I was in heaven here. The other preparation was the same lobster (not literally) with "Peas and Carrots" that is fresh pea shoots and diced carrots in a carrot-ginger butter. This was more of a novel combination to me, for which reason I actually preferred it to the other. I would have to admit if I had each ten times I would prefer the saffron-vanilla nine of those times, but for this once novelty won over classic.

The above seafood courses were served with a nicely minerally Brewer-Clifton "Mt. Carmel Chardonnay from Santa Rita, CA., vintage 2002.

Next up on the agenda were the meat courses. All day braised Berkshire pork belly was served with "melted" fennel bulb, poached Rainier cherries and cherry gastrique. The other sampling was unique and one of my favorite dishes of the evening. It was a quail leg stuffed with sweetbreads and a black truffle farce. This was a particularly artfully presented dish with subtle flavors.

The next course was served to everyone at the table. It was a "Calotte de Boeuf Grille" from Snake River Farms wagyu beef. The calotte is a rimless cap of a specific cut of beef. although we were told which cut, unfortunately I can't remember it. I think the wines were starting to take their toll. This was first presented to us as a single cooked piece of meat and then brought back to us sliced and individually plated. Needless to say, the meat was cooked perfectly medium rare. It was servd with crispy bone marrow, chantarelle mushrooms (I could have used a few more of those and a fabulous yukon gold potato millefeuille.

The wine pairing for both meat meat course was Cigliuti Barbaresco 1999 servde from a Riedel magnum decanter. The cherry components of the wine married perfectly with the pork dish and handled the other meats supernbly as well.

The cheese course consisted of "Chabichou" with green apple jelly, red beets and English walnut short bread and also Pecorino raviolis with Armando Manni olive oil. I preferred the "raviolis", although I believe I was in the minority as most of the others preferred the more subtle "chabichou".

Desserts started with sea-salted chocolate sorbet with lime sabayon and also a pineapple sorbet with braised pineapple and avocado coulis. Two comments: the salt on the chocolate sorbet worked as did the avocado coulis. There has been discussion in other topics about avocado in desssert that has been mostly negative. This had great flavor, texture and visual appeal.

The signature "Coffee and Donuts" wsa next for everyone at the table. The coffee was a semi-freddo with whipped cream on top. This was whimsical, delightful and delicious.

Lastly, we were served "Tentation au chocolat" with condensed milk sorbet, hazelnut streusel, sweetened salty hazelnuts and "pain au lait" sauce as one offering and a "dclination au chocolat" with valrhona chocolate brownie as the other. These desserts were good, though not truly outstanding compared to the rest of the meal. The chocolate desserts were served with a 1999 Banyuls from Paulliles

The selection of mignardises at the end were also superb, although not too many of us still had the apppetite to eat more than one.

Now that dinner was complete, the evening needed to be completed. This was accomplished with a tour of the kitchen led by the restaurant manager. Once again, I can share a few photos.

Pastry Chefs at work. At this point in the evening they were the busiest people in the kitchen.

A close up of one of the desserts they were preparing. We did not have this.

Trays of mignardises awaiting plating.

Balsamics and olive oils used in the kitchen

With Chef Benno in the kitchen.

The kitchen is huge and immaculate. Their is a great sense of order and purpose. Every once in a while we would come across a sign posted at a finishing station reading "Sense of Urgency". The impression I got was of consummate professionals doing there thing in an orderly, steady way without panic or a sense of haste. I was also surprised that the kitchen was broken up the way it was. It actually consisted of a number of separate rooms and spaces. I expected more of one very large space. It also had a completely separate kitchen for servicing the large private dining room.

We capped off the evening by exploring some of the other spaces in the complex including Mas, Bar Masa and Asiate. Our presence was not particularly welcome at Masa as innocuous as it was. They did not greeet us very warmly. Asiate was a beautiful space, although it was much more compact than Per Se.

In summary, this was a special meal shared with people who have become special friends. Was it worth it? Absolutely.

Edited May 23, 2004 by docsconz (log)

[Pan]

Thanks for the great report, John! A few questions:

The first course of the next flight was a salad course that consisted of a white asparagus salad with truffle coulis and "confit" of rhubarb and also a beet salad with "blood" greens and beet essence.

What on earth are "blood" greens? Is that from the red beet color? Are blood orange slices or juice or something in there somewhere?

The other sampling was unique and one of my favorite dishes of the evening. It was a quail leg stuffed with sweetbreads and a black truffle farce.

What kind of dish is a "farce"? Is it like a "fool"? (I forget what that is, though.)

Finally, I'm curious whether everyone who has dinner at Per Se gets a kitchen tour just for the asking.

[Fat Guy]

Ultimately, it is a marketing tool -- a loss leader -- to sell office and residential space at very high rates.

I don't know about that. There's a marketing element here, but this isn't a Lespinasse situation where there's a hotel expecting to lose $1 million a year on the restaurant. Per Se is designed to generate significant profitability. Per Se will likely gross quite a lot higher than French Laundry's $7.5 million per year. They're going to do 100+ covers a night, they have extensive banquet facilities, they have a liquor license so they'll have a whole bar business that French Laundry lacks, chances are they will sell more expensive wines in an urban setting, and they're going to have integration with the Bouchon Bakery property opening later this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see $2 million more in dining room sales than French Laundry on account of wine, liquor, and extra seating, another $3 million in banquet sales, and maybe $1 million from the bakery. It may take 5 years and it may take 10, but if they keep filling those seats and selling wine, spirits, and banquets the investors may very well realize a respectable return.

[Fat Guy]

Finally, I'm curious whether everyone who has dinner at Per Se gets a kitchen tour just for the asking.

Yes.

[JosephB]

Here's the menu that our captain, Peter, hand-wrote for us.

[docsconz]

Joe, People thought I remembered it all myself!

[Fat Guy]

That's a really nice touch.

[sashimi]

Wow, that really is a nice touch.

He even drew little pictures of lobsters beside the lobster dishes, and a steaming cup of coffee beside the coffee and donuts dish.

Talk about going above and beyond.

[Suzi Edwards]

cries with jealousy.

next time i come to new york, i am eating there. i was so annoyed not to get a table for our last trip.

[tan319]

John,

Thank you for the great post and pix!!!

One thing that made me smile was how happy all of you looked, and for good reason

Looks and sounds delicous.

In the pastry pix, who was the pastry chef?

The guy with the spikey hair?

Thanks again for your post!

[Jonathan Day]

The other sampling was unique and one of my favorite dishes of the evening. It was a quail leg stuffed with sweetbreads and a black truffle farce.

What kind of dish is a "farce"? Is it like a "fool"? (I forget what that is, though.)

A "farce" is a stuffing. From the French "farcir", to stuff; in English, "farce" is sometimes translated "forcemeat".

A "fool" is a British dish, a pudding (dessert) usually served in summer. It's a concoction of fruit and sweetened cream. Gooseberry fools, raspberry fools, etc.

[docsconz]

John,

Thank you for the great post and pix!!!

One thing that made me smile was how happy all of you looked, and for good reason

Looks and sounds delicous.

In the pastry pix, who was the pastry chef?

The guy with the spikey hair?

Thanks again for your post!

The only person we were specifically introduced to in the kitchen was Chef Benno, so unfortunately I cannot identify anyone else from Per Se in the photos.

[Jaybert41]

John,

Thank you for the great post and pix!!!

One thing that made me smile was how happy all of you looked, and for good reason

Looks and sounds delicous.

In the pastry pix, who was the pastry chef?

The guy with the spikey hair?

Thanks again for your post!

The Pastry Chef, Sebastian is the chef nearest the photograopher in the picture. In the white apron.

[Pan]

Thanks for the definitions, Jonathan. Now, how many Americans do you think know what a "farce" is, used as a food term? I know what "farcie" means in French but wouldn't have thought to connect it with "farce."

[tan319]

John,

Thank you for the great post and pix!!!

One thing that made me smile was how happy all of you looked, and for good reason

Looks and sounds delicous.

In the pastry pix, who was the pastry chef?

The guy with the spikey hair?

Thanks again for your post!

The Pastry Chef, Sebastian is the chef nearest the photograopher in the picture. In the white apron.

Man!

He looks young.

Is his last name Rouxell?

Thanks.

[hshiau]

I finally have a reservation!!! July 24th at 7:30. Since we really wanted a Saturday reservation, I had to be confined to one opportunity each week to get a reservation. After forgetting numerous times or unavailable to call or get through at the right time, we're now in. I'm so excited.

[R Washburn]

I am very impressed with Per Se, after having lunch there yesterday. I consider the 5-course prix-fixe one of the dining bargains of NY at $125.

I wouldn't expect culinary equivalent of "fireworks", but the food is very good, and worthy of four stars from the NY Times. Sure I have had better food (to my tastes) at ADNY, Daniel, Le Bec-Fin etc., but Per Se was very good.

I was how ever very impressed with the service. The staff was willing to spend large amounts of time talking with you and our captain gave us an extensive tour of the kitchen after the meal. From what i could see the staff must outnumber the diners by a large margin.

Some of the details were completely over the top, such as different temperature zones within the wine cellar to match the cellars the wines came from. Thomas Keller is clearly obsessed with details which may or may not be detectable by the diner, but must greatly add to the expense of the restaurant.

As long as Per Se is at this particular price point, I would go back, but I am not convinced that Keller is the most talented Chef in New York, much less the world.

[docsconz]

As long as Per Se is at this particular price point, I would go back, but I am not convinced that Keller is the most talented Chef in New York, much less the world.

I would agree with this statement. The food was all excellent, but from that perspective alone not the absolutely best I have ever had. Not one dish sent me through spasms of rapture, however, the entire experience was phenomenal and I believe a result of his creativity and obsession with detail.

[Fat Guy]

We can safely assume that Keller is giving us his most conservative game at this point -- he's basically serving the dishes that his French Laundry-trained staff can already handle. It will take a year or two to see the full potential of Per Se -- hopefully he will take the restaurant forward in a way that will convince his fair share of discriminating diners like Robert and John that he deserves to be called the best. While his style appeals to me less than some others, I think it's fair to say that Keller's skill level certainly puts him in the top group of chefs. And his venue is without peer -- Daniel Boulud for all his talent just can't provide, in a 300+ covers situation, the kind of meal that Per Se provides to every customer.