Where we may be going wrong

[BigboyDan]

"impatient", eh?

Well, much of your statements underline my thoughts. But, the French Michelin means money and success/failure to many French restauranteurs. Period.

[John Whiting]

But, the French Michelin means money and success/failure to many French restauranteurs. Period.

That depends at least in part on whether they have chosen to define themselves in those terms. To aim for Michelin recognition and not to achieve it -- or worse still, to gain and then lose it -- is indeed to court failure. I continue to be attracted to those establishments, rare though they may be, which don't seem to give a sou.

A favorite restaurant/hotel of mine, buried in once prosperous Lorraine, had a Michelin star for several years and then unaccountably lost it. Not to be defeated, the chef/patron and his wife started presenting week-end events consisting of two nights' music/degustation events, with mailings to their regular customers. Fortunately they are close enough to Belgium/Luxembourg/Germany so that there are diners with a bit of spare cash who can afford to come for an evening, a night, or the whole weekend. (It's not expensive -- a meal and a room at about the cost of just a meal in a more fashionable area.) They use their Michelin as a doorstop.

[Jonathan Day]

It would be good to bring more locals -- Parisian or otherwise -- into this forum.

Whether we are chasing Michelin stars or, in John's nicely turned phrase, "restaurants that tell you where in the world you are without your having to ask someone", most of us here are visitors, either tourists or temporary sojourners. We would still get plenty of argument and controversy with more French locals on the board, but we would get a different perspective on restaurants.

[John Whiting]

Along with other complications, we should bear in mind Heisenberg's observation that, in scientific experiment, observing a phenomenon alters it.

[pedro]

Which was specifically addressed to quantum physics.

[John Whiting]

Which was specifically addressed to quantum physics.

Indeed, but there's more to life than quantum physics.

[pedro]

Not much, but at least, food.

Coming back to one of the points that's been debated, among the chefs I know in Spain, Michelin guide is viewed as important to get foreign customers, and getting the first star can increase you revenue by a 20%, which I assume is good.

It's difficult for me to imagine what El Bulli or La Broche would be doing without the income brought by foreigners.

Since the number of people visiting France for gastronomical reasons is much larger than in Spain (fact in which Michelin rating policies in Spain have something to do), I would assume they're even more dependent on tourists than here. At least, in some segment of restaurants.

[Louisa Chu]

Dan did I say anything about the Michelin guide NOT being for tourists? And I'm sorry but you're wrong. It's fairly easy to get a table in a three-star in Paris right not - because the Parisian clientele has gone on vacation. And these clients drop 300 a week - easy. Some go to the same two-star lunches every single weekday. Sure it's different in the boonies - and maybe back in the day - but that's what the scene is right now in Paris.

Marcus - OK - I get what you mean now. As far as El Bulli and L'Astrance - M. Barbot had dinner there a few years ago - thought it was all very interesting - some of it very good - no direct influences - his influences he sees as coming of course from L'Arpege/M. Passard.

[paulbrussel]

Coming back to one of the points that's been debated, among the chefs I know in Spain, Michelin guide is viewed as important to get foreign customers, and getting the first star can increase you revenue by a 20%, which I assume is good.

It's difficult for me to imagine what El Bulli or La Broche would be doing without the income brought by foreigners.

Since the number of people visiting France for gastronomical reasons is much larger than in Spain (fact in which Michelin rating policies in Spain have something to do), I would assume they're even more dependent on tourists than here. At least, in some segment of restaurants.

Do you really think so? [Edit: I mean, that Spanish chefs are much more depending on Michelin stars?]

As you know I do love BCN cuisine. But when I went there, it was rare to see foreigners, most of the guests are locals. Even when I went to Sant Pau and El Celler de Can Roca last November, I didn't notice any foreigner accept myself, as I didn't in Can Fabes a month before.

In the three starred restaurants in Paris, I think it is quite different: many foreigners, but Parisians as well. In my experience indeed: more foreigners then locals, and especially Japanese and Americans.

Edited February 24, 2004 by paulbrussel (log)

[pedro]

Not at all, Paul. My points are:

a) Every chef depends on Michelin stars to get foreigners.

Here, the impact of Michelin among locals is neglectable. But if you get a star you'll get a nice increment of the revenue, which doesn't hurt, I guess.

b) Since the number of tourists which go to France because of the food is larger than those visiting Spain for the same reason, french chefs are more dependent than spanish ones.

[John Whiting]

Some go to the same two-star lunches [in Paris] every single weekday.

And three. On the one occasion I lunched at l'Arpege (tagging along with Marlena Spieler, whom I'd been able to set up for a review), it was obvious that most of the other diners were from the neighbouring bureaucratic establishments which rue de Varenne is full of -- they all behaved as though their names were engraved on brass plaques on the backs of their chairs.

[paulbrussel]

Not at all, Paul.

OK: I do understand your points now and I do agree.

By the way, the most foreigners I noticed at Comerç 24, although it hasn't got a Michelin star.

More foreigners I noticed also at Àbac, but I think the latter will really need them, since he is the most expensive chef of BCN, I think.

[John Talbott]

Coming back to the original point:

"I have many friends who have probably never visited a restaurant more than once. Or a restaurant that’s been open more than a millisecond. They play “the first to know first to go” game in restaurant land. But no matter how much they praise the place, they never go back. Who has time if one is obsessed with only the new?"

I know that I am guilty. Many of us are. As often as we visit Paris, there is little time to return to more than a handful of favorites that demand our loyalty."

I suspect there are (at least) three patterns, none of which I can fault. There is the person who visits France and Paris infrequently and he/she/whatever wants to go back to 3 macaroon restaurants, no problem; some of the highlights of my life took place Chez Boyer or Bise or Giradet. Then there are the folks who are lucky enough to live here (or there as the case may be) and even going to every restaurant that opens with good reviews in Figaroscope or Croque Notes or the Timeout section in Pariscope, one still has time to try new and strange places, sometimes ethnic, you never would when just visiting. (By the way, in reply to folks above who say "hot" restaurants are crowded, I've never not gotten a reservation the Wednesday that a new restaurant has been favorably rated in Figaroscope). Finally, there are the folks in between, and for them, I think trying new places becomes normal. If the chef does not change the carte with the seasons, if you are always faced with the same choices on the "menu", if someone goes upscale (like Chez Catherine or Eric Frechon) but with out of sight prices for the same food, why not go to the young offspring of the "greats" who are tucked out in the 19th or 15th or Le Perreux sur Marne which "tourists" see as too far. Besides - it's more fun ven though you strike out a lot.