Film Noir

[chezcherie]

throwing this out to the ever-clever eG crowd..a friend has been invited to a "film noir" dinner, and would like menu suggestions. (apparently a potluck, so open to any and all courses.) i feel empty and stupid...perhaps we opened the wine too early this evening!

[rancho_gordo]

Mildred Pierce's chicken?

[Mayhaw Man]

Maltese Fowl con arroz

[chezcherie]

okay, so the fowl course has been covered....more?

thanks!

[Carolyn Tillie]

Okay, you losers, you've asked for it:

From The Big Sleep, serve Brandy.

Or, Double Indemnity, lemonade for teatollers. (And there are all those supermaket scenes!)

Notorious Champagne (or champagne bottles with sand in them...)

The Big Clock - Creme de Menthe

Gee, you guys are going to do a lot of drinking...

Edward G. Robinson's Little Caesar - Caesar Salad.

Mildred Pierce was mentioned - but she got her start making cakes and pies.

Postman Always Rings Twice - Diner food (burgers, eggs, etc)

The Bribe - South American food

James Cagney pushes a grapefruit into Mae Clarke's face in The Public Enemy

and Cheese -- remember Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid has a whole cheese undercurrent!

Shall I go on?????

Edited February 10, 2004 by Carolyn Tillie (log)

[chezcherie]

by all means!

[Mayhaw Man]

How about?

For Salad:

Scarlet Street Red Endive Salad with a Touch of EVOO

For Dessert:

Murder, My Sweet Potato Pie

And yes Carloyn, you should go on.

[Comfort Me]

Guinea Pig pot pie a la Baby Jane!

(It is a rodent, after all! And cooks are all so skittish about rats these days!)

Edited February 10, 2004 by Comfort Me (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

You asked for it...

Touch of Evil - Mexican Food

To Have and Have Not - Fish. Lots of it. And beer (for Mr. Eddy)

The Petrified Forest - More diner food.

Gilda - More South American food but since this movie takes place in a casino, you could design appetizers in the shapes of playing card suits, etc...

Laura - Lots of eating scenes in the movie (and a cocktail party or two). Dana Andrews and Gene Tierney also have breakfast together.

The Woman from Tangier - Tagines

Shadow of a Doubt - Very funny scene in which mother, Emma Newton, tries to bake a cake.

Lady From Shanghai - Orson Welles plays an Irishman so you could serve stout. I like the idea of Chinese food only because Rita Hayworth speaks Chinese in the film...

How am I doing?

Edited February 10, 2004 by Carolyn Tillie (log)

[chezcherie]

How am I doing?

you are doing great---in fact, i'm tempted to flip all the cards and declare you the winner...anyone else want to take the challenge?

[Carolyn Tillie]

How am I doing?

you are doing great---in fact, i'm tempted to flip all the cards and declare you the winner...anyone else want to take the challenge?

Yeah, but have you decided what is going to be served at this party?

And can you tell that I'm a manic film buff?

[Mayhaw Man]

And can you tell that I'm a manic film buff?

Well, I don't know about the film buff part, but I think that I might agree with the manic part

[Toliver]

Some sort of fowl for "The Maltese Falcon".

Martinis for the "Thin Man" series.

Mediterranean food for "Casablanca" or more fowl for "The Blue Parrot" (Rick's nightclub competition in the film) or French Food ("We'll always have Paris") or even some sort of bean dish ("...it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world.")

Seafood and/or Hurricanes (the drinks) for "Key Largo"

Coffee made fresh from beans from "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid" (an homage to Film Noir)

[Jaymes]

Ah yes, Casablanca. I'd do North African. And hide a Letter of Transit somewhere. The person that gets it wins something. Maybe the "honor" of holding the next get-together.

And thinking of another classic, how about Citizen Candy Kane Ice Cream for dessert.

[Carolyn Tillie]

I gotta take umbrage here, my friends.

Technically, I don't believe Casablanca is truly film noir. I suppose it is splitting hairs and drawing a fine line, but "strictly speaking, however, film noir is not a genre, but rather the mood, style or tone of a film" which I don't believe Casablanca has.

Just my humble opinion.

We can discuss food now -- but I wanted to state the Casablanca came to mind when I was listing my other movies, but I dismissed it as not within the genre.

BTW, I don't believe Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? is remotely film noir.

[Toliver]

I gotta take umbrage here, my friends.

Technically, I don't believe Casablanca is truly film noir. I suppose it is splitting hairs and drawing a fine line, but "strictly speaking, however, film noir is not a genre, but rather the mood, style or tone of a film" which I don't believe Casablanca has.

Just my humble opinion.

We can discuss food now -- but I wanted to state the Casablanca came to mind when I was listing my other movies, but I dismissed it as not within the genre.

BTW, I don't believe Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? is remotely film noir.

Sorry to disagree (I knew this would come up). While Film Noir began as the hard boilded private eye who finds the bad guys while he romances the dame who knows more than she lets on about, the genre grew to encompass more than mysteries.

Granted, we don't normally think of "Casablanca" as representative of the Film Noir genre but the style of Film Noir is very much present in "Casablanca" and even the later (but less illustrative of the genre) "What Ever Happened to Baby Jane". Light and shadow play a big part in "Casablanca" which is what Film Noir is all about. Some of the most emotional scenes in "Casablanca" are the dark shadowy scenes.

But then that's just my opinion.

edited to add puffery

Edited February 11, 2004 by Toliver (log)

[TrishCT]

And thinking of another classic, how about Citizen Candy Kane Ice Cream for dessert.

Love it!

--Been following Fat Guy's recent EGCI course so how about....

Hard Boiled Eggs?

[Jaymes]

Sorry to disagree (I knew this would come up). While Film Noir began as the hard boilded private eye who finds the bad guys while he romances the dame who knows more than she lets on about, the genre grew to encompass more than mysteries.

Granted, we don't normally think of "Casablanca" as representative of the Film Noir genre but the style of Film Noir is very much present in "Casablanca" and even the later (but less illustrative of the genre) "What Ever Happened to Baby Jane". Light and shadow play a big part in "Casablanca" which is what Film Noir is all about. Some of the most emotional scenes in "Casablanca" are the dark shadowy scenes.

But then that's just my opinion.

Mine, too. There is a dark, moody, mysterious undertone throuout. And ain't nobody "hard-boiled" if it isn't the remote, emotionally damaged Rick. The girl certainly has secrets, certainly knows a lot more than she lets on.

But mainly, as you point out, the style of the cinematography and direction, and the clipped, lean dialogue fit.

Perhaps we could agree that Casablanca is on the 'light' side of the Film Noir genre.

But, assuming that the Film Noir theme of the dinner isn't strictly relegated to these older flicks, how about 'Blue Velvet Cake'?

[rancho_gordo]

Just my opinion- but I agree with La Tillie here. I don't think Casablanca is cynical enough. It has gorgeous lighting but I'd say it's the wrong lighting to fit Noir.

A lot of Film Noir has awful people doing awful things. The best seem to be set in LA for some strange reason... Baby Jane would fit this description but it's really a psycho-drama.

FWIW, the scene where Babs Stanwyck and Fred McMurray meet in Double Indemnity is my favorite moment in almost all film history. Too bad they weren't eating, too.

For the record, I am not a film historian but I sure loved the forties, even if I wasn't there.

Edited February 11, 2004 by rancho_gordo (log)

[Jaymes]

FWIW, the scene where Babs Stanwyck and Fred McMurray meet in Double Indemnity is my favorite moment in almost all film history.

Me, too. "There's a speed limit in this state, Mr. Neff."

Great stuff.

[Arey]

Perhaps we could agree that Casablanca is on the 'light' side of the Film Noir genre.

Noir Lite - only half the number of corpses as Noir Regular, and no Choler. For people on the run, Noir Lite is the way to go. Joe Cairo, chef to Kasper Gutman, the famous gourmet and collecter of objects d'art, is a proponent of Noir Lite and his fresh gunsel salad with scapegoat cheese is featured in the current issue of Cooks Eliminated.

Edited February 11, 2004 by Arey (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

Okay, I will agree to it being Noir Lite. I agree that it has many elements of Noir, but I think the overwhelming humor I find in the film sways me away from the dark, brooding quality that I usually associate with Noir ("I'd like to think you killed a man - its the romantic in me!").

Yeah, the chick's got a secret, but I'm not sure any of us (even those seeing it for the first time), believe that the evil elements within the film are going to win. The protagonist is genuinely good, not riding the fine line of bending towards bad.

[Mayhaw Man]

That may be true, but isn't part of the (not very well defined) definition of film noir that film noir is bad people acting bad in bad ways with very little or no hope of spiritual redemption being offered, or for that matter sought?

The main characters in most of the films that have become "film noir" are generally social outcasts, criminals, and degenerates of other sorts-they were supposed to be metephorical representations of society (generally American Society, although the style has it's roots in pre war Germany and France) as a whole.

In Casablanca, Rick is not inherently bad and certainly not a degenerate. He does have a (not very well defined)past as some kind of person who lives on the edge of the law and has become an expatriate, but in the end he sacrifices for the good of the others. In fact, the final scene , is in essence, a happy ending. This is not something that would define it as film noir.

The lighting and the large number of social outcasts in the film certainly have something in common with Film Noir, but in the end Casablanca (imo) is a tale of good versus evil (good represented by Rick and bad represented by the Vichy French and the Nazis) and while it is one of my favorite movies, it is really just a really romantic political/war/crime tale.

[Carolyn Tillie]

it is really just a really romantic political/war/crime tale.

Yes. That, coupled with the humor, keeps it from the noir-status for me...

[Mabelline]

To me one of the most fabulous and under-appreciated actors was Robert Mitchum!!!!Cape Fear! Night of the Hunter! Thunder Road! He made the goose bumps get goose bumps!