Ann Arbor Dining

[cbarre02]

Ann Arbor offers a wonderful diversity both with students, and citizens. It has one of the most prestigious public universities in the United States. There are some decent food destinations, but none that I am overall impressed with. It surprises me that such a nice city goes with out equally nice food. Zingerman's, EVE, Pacific Rim, seem all to be on the right track. Does anyone have suggestions?

[tammylc]

I ask myself the same question all the time. I think the best buys in Ann Arbor are at the low end - there's some really cheap, really good lunch food to be found - Jeruselum Garden, Earthen Jar, Le Dog, Kosmo Deli, Sabor Latino, just to name a few. I never have trouble figuring out where to take people for lunch in Ann Arbor.

Dinner on the other hand is another story entirely. There's just no one in Ann Arbor that's doing much of anything interesting with food! I haven't yet been to Eve or Pacific Rim, although they are on my to-visit list. Cafe Zola is my top pick for a well executed dinner out.

I haven't been to Daniel's on Liberty (formerly Moveable Feast) since they switched to only serving dinner on Saturday. But on the couple of trips there that I did take, they were doing some quite nice appetizers and decent desserts, although the entrees were still on the boring side.

[tammylc]

Oh, I also wanted to say that the other place I think Ann Arbor really excels is in quality ingredients. We have not one, but two, really excellent cheese shops (Big Ten and Zingerman's). All of the Kerrytown food sellers are providing really excellent product - meat at Sparrow, fish at Monahan's, produce at Ciacco's. Zingerman's is the place for electic dry goods. Tracklements sells divine smoked salmon. It's all top notch. Now we just need a chef who's willing to put those ingredients to the test!

[cbarre02]

I know the chef and the owner at Pacific Rim personally. They are trying to source great ingredients, and are not satisfied with average products. I like their menu (except their salads) and where they are trying to go. They've only recently change from being Kana, so they are still on the journey to their final destination. I know for valentines they are doing a five course-tasting menu, and would be worth checking out.

I too would love to see a chef put our Ann Arbor assets together. I myself have dreamed of opening a fine dining restaurant in the Ann Arbor area, but am scared of the Ann Arbor diners. I don't know that they are willing to pay for a tasting menu, or give up 3 hours of their night to enjoy food.

[Alex]

Pacific Rim just faxed me their Valentine's Day menu. (It's not on their web site.) They call it a tasting menu, but to me it looks more like a five-course meal: butternut squash-chestnut soup; choice of one of three appetizers; watercress-frisée salad with jicama and dried fruit; choice of one of four entrées; choice of one of two desserts (warm chocolate cake w/persimmon ice cream and cardamom whipped cream or coconut panna cotta with tropical fruit and a mango-coconut sauce). $58 for the meal, $25 for accompanying wines.

[tammylc]

I don't know about Ann Arbor diners either. I mean, these are people that think the Earle is good...

But the income is certainly here, and the lack of fine dining is a big gap. It seems like a natural hole to try to fill. Chophouse seems to be doing well, so people are willing to spend the money, I think.

[cbarre02]

With wine what is the average bill at the chop house?

[tammylc]

With wine what is the average bill at the chop house?

Here's a link to their menu. Entrees run $25-$40, and most of those are a la carte, with sides being another $5 or $6. Plus apps, salads, etc if you want them. And if you want dessert, then it goes on another bill, cause they move you over to La Dolce Vita for that.

Their wine list isn't online, but last time we were there we spent $35 on a half bottle, so it's not a discount list.

They do give you a free meal on your birthday, like the rest of the Mainstreet Ventures restaurants, which is prettty much the only time we ever go there.

[cbarre02]

So based on your dining in Ann Arbor, what would you consider number one for dinner? Money is not a consideration, only the restaurant's preformance.

[tammylc]

Of the restaurants I've been to, I'd have to say Daniel's on Liberty, with the caveat that I haven't been there in a couple of years and they've changed formats in the intervening time. Good presentation, excellent service (our waiter remembered us from our previous anniversary visit the year before!), quality ingredients.

I haven't been to Pacific Rim, Bella Ciao, EVE, or the Earle Uptown, all of which could be contenders, from what I know or have heard from them.

And I'll reiterate that Cafe Zola is good solid Mediterranean bistro, and does it really, really well. But it's just a bistro, and as such doesn't have quite the oomph of Daniel's.

[Andrew Fenton]

I ask myself the same question all the time.  I think the best buys in Ann Arbor are at the low end - there's some really cheap, really good lunch food to be found - Jeruselum Garden, Earthen Jar, Le Dog, Kosmo Deli, Sabor Latino, just to name a few.  I never have trouble figuring out where to take people for lunch in Ann Arbor. 

This was always my experience when I lived in A2 (I moved away in 1998.) For cheap food, it can't be beat: to that list, I'd add the Korean greasy spoons and Blimpy Burger as places that I still miss. And Zingerman's, while it isn't cheap, is a wonderful deli.

But I never found any really amazing restaurants on the high end. I liked Moveable Feast (now Daniel's; didn't know that) but it wasn't overwhelmingly good. I wonder if, despite an educated, affluent population, it just doesn't have enough people to support such places. I guess a way to test that hypothesis would be to compare it to similar cities: Madison? Chapel Hill?

Edited February 4, 2004 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[tammylc]

I've wondered the same thing, Andrew. But it's not like high end restaurants are starting up and failing - no one's starting them in the first place... Maybe they're doing market research and know not even to bother?

[cbarre02]

Tribute is in Farmington Hills and they are doing very well for themselves. I know that Ann Arborites are willing to take the trip to this restaurants, do you think that other well to do Southeast Michiganders would be willing to make the trip to Ann Arbor? One must consider too that 35,000 of the population is made up of college students, who want quick, cheap, and tasty food. I think that the clientele is available, but I don't think that they are available to fill seats five nights a week.

[Alex]

Tribute is in Farmington Hills and they are doing very well for themselves.  I know that Ann Arborites are willing to take the trip to this restaurants, do you think that other well to do Southeast Michiganders would be willing to make the trip to Ann Arbor?

From my twelve years of having lived in both Detroit and the burbs, I very strongly suspect not. I believe that there is only a very small percentage of such people who would be motivated enough to drive 45-60 min. (with reasonable traffic and weather), especially during the week, for a Tribute-type dinner. Detroit, unfortunately, is not Chicago.

edited for grammar

Edited February 5, 2004 by Alex (log)

[cbarre02]

Alex..... How right you are.

[Andrew Fenton]

Tribute is in Farmington Hills and they are doing very well for themselves.  I know that Ann Arborites are willing to take the trip to this restaurants, do you think that other well to do Southeast Michiganders would be willing to make the trip to Ann Arbor?

From my twelve years of having lived in both Detroit and the burbs, I very strongly suspect not. I believe that there are only a very small percentage of such people who would be motivated enough to drive 45-60 min. (with reasonable traffic and weather), especially during the week, for a Tribute-type dinner. Detroit, unfortunately, is not Chicago.

What about the Five Lakes Grill? Milford is pretty far from anything, and yet people are willing to drive out there, aren't they?

[Alex]

Tribute is in Farmington Hills and they are doing very well for themselves.  I know that Ann Arborites are willing to take the trip to this restaurants, do you think that other well to do Southeast Michiganders would be willing to make the trip to Ann Arbor?

From my twelve years of having lived in both Detroit and the burbs, I very strongly suspect not. I believe that there are only a very small percentage of such people who would be motivated enough to drive 45-60 min. (with reasonable traffic and weather), especially during the week, for a Tribute-type dinner. Detroit, unfortunately, is not Chicago.

What about the Five Lakes Grill? Milford is pretty far from anything, and yet people are willing to drive out there, aren't they?

True. However, Milford is closer physically and and more connected geo-psychologically (if I can coin a term) to the NW suburbs, where much of the money resides.

(On a related note, lots of people I've met here in Grand Rapids are amazed that we'd drive a half-hour for dinner at a favorite restaurant in Holland.)

[Andrew Fenton]

True. However, Milford is closer physically and and more connected geo-psychologically (if I can coin a term) to the NW suburbs, where much of the money resides.

Good point. So how long a drive would you say it is on average? (if such an average is possible to estimate, that is...)

(On a related note, lots of people I've met here in Grand Rapids are amazed that we'd drive a half-hour for dinner at a favorite restaurant in Holland.)

Hell, a couple of weeks ago I drove two hours from Philly to north Jersey for the eG Chinese New Year dinner... and on Saturday I'm driving an hour to go get pizza. And yes, I've gotten a blank stare or two about this...

[tammylc]

Yeah, but Five Lakes really isn't much worth the drive, IMNSHO.

There's also several higher end restaurants in Northville - Emily's, Mackinnons, Little Italy Ristorante. I've not been to any of them but they all get pretty good reviews. And I hear that the new Chef de Cuisine at Emily's comes directly from working under Takahashi at Tribute. Can't remember his name, sorry.

Oh, and what about Jeremy Restaurant and Bar? Anyone been there? Inauspicious name, but rave, rave reviews. And just named 2004 Restaurant of the Year by the Freep. Link

But we're diverging... the question is will people drive to Ann Arbor for dinner. I think they're driving here to go to Zingerman's, so maybe. If it was a really destination kind of place. But maybe not. What's the secret to Tribute's success? Are people driving from all over the metro area to go there, or are they doing a lot of high end business dinners for the automotive companies?

[lala]

I grew up in A2, visit frequesntly, and my Dad still lives there... he reports that it's a real pain in the a** to even get downtown to a restaurant, due to parking. As well, as the students are downtown, that's where the less expensive/ lower quality places will be. And the burbs tend to have chain restaurants... he's not happy... it's easier for him to stay home and cook.

[cbarre02]

So is there an area with in a half an hour, or less, of ann arbor that a restaurant could be built? Ideas... plymouth, canton, novi?

[tammylc]

Eh, the parking problem in downtown Ann Arbor is overrated. It's really not that bad. Especially compared to any city of any size. I mean c'mon people - if you can't find free parking and have to park in a structure, it's a whopping 80 cents an hour!!! It doesn't stop the restaurants from being full and Main St from being busy and active. If I'm going to pay $100 for dinner, I'm not going to complain about paying for parking.

And for what its worth, downtown has a really broad range of restaurants in terms of price, from the low end to the high end. The most high end Ann Arbor has is downtown, in fact.

[JimInLoganSquare]

Eh, the parking problem in downtown Ann Arbor is overrated.  It's really not that bad.  Especially compared to any city of any size.  I mean c'mon people - if you can't find free parking and have to park in a structure, it's a whopping 80 cents an hour!!!  It doesn't stop the restaurants from being full and Main St from being busy and active.  If I'm going to pay $100 for dinner, I'm not going to complain about paying for parking.

It is only rational to view parking costs -- even when they greatly exceed the nominal amounts charged in Ann Arbor -- as part of the price of admission for a wonderful dinner. Hell, I think absolutely nothing of dropping $8 or $9 (plus a $2 tip) for valet parking here in Chicago. But I grew up in Indianapolis, and I do understand the mentality that says parking should be free. That feeling that , dammit, they've already separated me from $8 of my hard earned money before I've even had a look at the menu. The sense of entitlement to just drive up to every experience in life at zero cost. The feeling that the world is oriented toward separating you from your money, for services that ought to be free. And you know what? That attitude is total crap. Just get over it, get used to the idea that an evening out costs some money, some of which is not for the food, and don't lose perspective because 5% of your evening's entertainment dollars went toward parking your car. Until Ann Arbor has an El, guess what, you're just going to have to drive and find a place to put that vehicle when you get there. And from my many experiences in downtown Ann Arbor there is A LOT of parking available there, but it just isn't free.

Edited February 7, 2004 by JimInLoganSquare (log)

[tammylc]

And Michigan is even worse. Detroit being the Motor City and all, people don't just want free parking, they want free parking immediately adjacent to wherever they are going. Thus the proliferation of strip malls and decline of traditional city centers. This is why I like Ann Arbor so much - it's actually got a thriving and active downtown. If people are afraid to come down and be parted from their cars, then hey - that just means there's a shorter wait for dinner for me.

[tammylc]

So is there an area with in a half an hour, or less, of ann arbor that a restaurant could be built? Ideas... plymouth, canton, novi?

Canton is a booming area. Mostly booming with strip malls - woo-hoo - you can see my opinion on those above. But it does have Thai Bistro, which is a sort of upscale Thai place with I've sadly only been to once but that has been around for years and seems to be doing pretty well.

Plymouth has Cafe Bon Homme, a common entrant on the Freep's Top Tables list, so it is also already something of a destination dining place.

And Novi - can't think of what exactly is there (except that my favorite pizza in the Detroit area is right nearby), but it's probably also pretty close to some of the other biggish names.

But I thought we were talking about Ann Arbor? If I want fine dining, I can already get it by driving to one of the Detroit burbs, or into Detroit itself (I still want to make it to Cuisine someday). I end up eating that level of food less often than I might otherwise because it doesn't exist in Ann Arbor. Give me someplace that's local and actually doing interesting things with food, and I'd probably spend too much of my hard earned money there. Hmmm... maybe I should be encouraging you to locate in Canton. :-)

I think for a place in downtown Ann Arbor to succeed, it would have to be pretty small. You're not going to get 50 covers a night, I don't think. How many tables does EVE have?

I also think that you'd want to do a 3-course prix fixe for somewhere around $50, which would make you competitive with the corporate restaurants that line Main. Then you could have a 5 and/or 7 course for more adventurous/monied diners. Throw in some wine pairings, and now we're talking someplace that I could get excited about.