restaurant etiquitte

[Random Alias]

I had a terrible service experience recently. I went to the downstairs cafe at a nationally known restaurant where I eat probably once a week (and I eat upstairs every three months or so) and had to wait forty five minutes to be given even a glass of water. It wasn't even busy at the time, but even if it was, that's no excuse.

This makes me wonder if anyone here ever "serves" themselves, when no service appears to be forthcoming.

I can think of a few instances at least where I've just taken matters into my own hands. On a couple of occasions when I've run out of water (and it being the only thing I was drinking) after so many minutes of waiting and trying in vain to get someone's attention, I'll just get up and find the water pitcher and bring it back to my table and fill my own glass.

Another fairly common thing is ordering something that "requires" a condiment. Say mustard for a burger or something. I'll wait for a little while, but I won't just sit there and let the food get cold. Or a dirty fork that you didn't notice until you picked it up to eat - although it's usually easy enough to just swipe it off another table. And my final pet peeve is when you have to wait....and wait...and wait...and then wait some more for your check so you can leave.

Usually this happens in fairly casual restaurants, and honestly in those types of places I don't much mind, but I've had these types of things happen in nicer restaurants as well. Usually when the person waiting on my table of 2, is also waiting on a table of 8 - a prime situation for getting ignored if there ever was one.

[beans]

(some restaurant managers don't check their e-mails for DAYS).

Oooh! So true. (Having just typed that, I'm not sure if any of our managers have checked our restaurant's email. I'll do a little test after I type this post.... )

Even more true about who is actually reading it -- that could be anyone from our owner, a manager or our bookkeeper.

[Exotic Mushroom]

beans, I don't know anything about Ohio's laws, but in the west, it is fairly common practice to comp drinks for customers - either to assuage someone who's upset, to be nice to a regular, or for a number of other reasons.

But you can't seriously think that giving someone a free glass of wine is an appropriate reaction to such a egregious service error? It took me forty five minutes to be waited on! With three servers and a dozen other customers present.

Dealing with unhappy customers is no doubt an unpleasant part of management's job, but it is a part of their job nonetheless. And you can't simply ignore such mistreatment and then expect the customer to forget about it. Had I be given a sincere apology, I probably would have written the experience off as a one time mistake. However, because I was not, it is clear to me that they don't value my patronage and therefore, they have lost it forever.

Do you really think that I should be satisfied with a free glass of wine and no apology? What do you think the best way to handle the situation would have been?

[bilrus]

I think that when a high end establishment screws up, throwing money at the problem is exactly the wrong way to go. I think that if I were reesek, a sincere apology would make me feel much better than any amount of money. It sounds like what irks her the most is how dismissive of her complaint the response was.

I had a similar incident at my office's Christmas dinner. I recommended a place that I have been to several times and have had good conversations with the chef in the past. Four of the people in our group of 11 (including me) got sick that night.

I e-mailed the chef and he promptly responded, was very apologetic and sent a personal apology via e-mail to the other people who got sick.

There was never any mention of a refund or gift certificates or anything like that (our meal would have been well over $1,500), but the fact that he was responsive and immediately apologetic more than made up for that.

Thread on my incident

I'll go back there again because I know that that sort of thing can happen despite the best precautions. If I had any doubt that those precautions weren't being taken I wouldn't go back.

[josephreese]

And my final pet peeve is when you have to wait....and wait...and wait...and then wait some more for your check so you can leave.

My uncle told me a story of a time his father took the family to a restaurant for dinner. My grandfather asked for the check, and waited... and waited... and waited until finally he took his family home without paying. Someone from the restaurant called him to remind him of the check. My grandfather told him how long he waited, and told the man he'd gladly pay... if the check was brought to his house. Someone from the restaurant actually showed up for payment, with coupons for a complimentary meal in hand. My grandfather could be pretty grumpy sometimes.

I suppose these days they'd just charge it to the patron's credit card if someone pulled that.

[Comfort Me]

calling or writing is always appropriate for any sort of business transaction. email is rarely appropriate.

Tommy:

I don't have the answer about what the restaurant should do, but...

My firm did over $100m in billables last year -- not bad for a a samll firm -- and I can't think of a business transaction, short of those requiring signatures, which we do not prefer to carry out via e-mail when absolutely possible. And if a signature is needed, I can e-mail the signature page and they can fax it back.

A letter is nice, but communication is communication. Period. If a restaurant gives out their e-mail address, they should check it regularly. And a complaint from a customer is a complaint from a customer.

[fifi]

Heh... That reminds me of what I did one time. I was with two friends at a very nice restaurant for lunch. After having requested the check, given the waiter the high sign a couple of times, I decided that 30 minutes (by the clock) was long enough to wait. I happened to have a Sharpie marker in my purse. I snagged a menu and scrawled on the inside that I felt that I had waited 30 minutes and that was long enough. I gave them contact information so that they could request payment. I never heard from them.

[reesek]

exotic mushroom - i think you hit what (for me) is the absolute crux of my issue.

value - as in - what's mine to them? i work for a company that has lots (and lots) of customers. we may not always satisfy every single complaint as the customer would wish (we don't always give them $$ and i do think that a lot of people measure hassle in dollars) - however - we are absolutely customer focused...internally and externally - we are devoted to customer experience.

what upsets me about this is that i was the freaking victim here - they offered me a product - i bought it - it was bad. and now i have to be grateful for an inadequate response - or more - i should have known that the email address prominently displayed on the website was the wrong contact mechanism...i'm the one who bears the burden? bullshit. they should take my comments as seriously in email as in person.

i guess i'm glad to know which restaurants are cya/corporate/customers are numbers - my money is happier going to someone who cares about me.

[beans]

beans, I don't know anything about Ohio's laws, but in the west, it is fairly common practice to comp drinks for customers - either to assuage someone who's upset, to be nice to a regular, or for a number of other reasons.

But you can't seriously think that giving someone a free glass of wine is an appropriate reaction to such a egregious service error? It took me forty five minutes to be waited on! With three servers and a dozen other customers present.

Dealing with unhappy customers is no doubt an unpleasant part of management's job, but it is a part of their job nonetheless. And you can't simply ignore such mistreatment and then expect the customer to forget about it. Had I be given a sincere apology, I probably would have written the experience off as a one time mistake. However, because I was not, it is clear to me that they don't value my patronage and therefore, they have lost it forever.

Do you really think that I should be satisfied with a free glass of wine and no apology? What do you think the best way to handle the situation would have been?

Again, for the second time, I never stated it wasn't a part of a manager's job for a tableside lashing by an unhappy guest.

Okay, if I gotta say it a third time I'll be forced to get out the wet noodle and/or write it in the gigantic font and in red.

The glass of wine was the apology. Did you drink it? Then you accepted it.

I find it to be a lovely gesture to offer femented grape juice to ensue a peaceful, happy smoothing of ruffled feathers.

So seeking external validation is being deemed better in place of a delicious little treat and freebie? As a guest, I'd certainly welcome the glass of wineand I wouldn't wait 45 minutes to get a glass of water. I'd leave and spend my hard earned funds elsewhere.

Within my employing restaurant, the velvet glove apology doesn't happen because the guest 99.9999999999% of the time wants a comp, a gift certificate or full refund. If a sympathetic apology was the only thing offered that's when the decibels tend increase on the upset party's side with the usual question of "Aren't you going to take something off of this bill??????? No! I want a full refund!!!!!"

edit: clarity

Edited February 2, 2004 by beans (log)

[tommy]

calling or writing is always appropriate for any sort of business transaction.  email is rarely appropriate.

Tommy:

I don't have the answer about what the restaurant should do, but...

My firm did over $100m in billables last year -- not bad for a a samll firm -- and I can't think of a business transaction, short of those requiring signatures, which we do not prefer to carry out via e-mail when absolutely possible. And if a signature is needed, I can e-mail the signature page and they can fax it back.

A letter is nice, but communication is communication. Period. If a restaurant gives out their e-mail address, they should check it regularly. And a complaint from a customer is a complaint from a customer.

i lean towards the thought expressed so clearly by Carolyn Tillie:

I feel e-mail is appropriate for conducting business IF a business relationship already exists.

i do business via email all of the time. when i feel it's appropriate. i think pen on paper and a wet signature may have been appropriate in this particular instance.

Edited February 2, 2004 by tommy (log)

[lala]

She's puking her guts out, and you want her to stop, find a pen and stationary, write a letter, find a stamp, and walk to the post office to mail it?

[beans]

She's puking her guts out, and you want her to stop, find a pen and stationary, write a letter, find a stamp, and walk to the post office to mail it?

WordPerfect/MS Word; press print; use pen to sign; fold letter and mail isn't much more effort than an email and a very powerful way to deal with the problem. It is a hard copy that haunts or praises and carries more weight to recieve correspondence via snail mail from a guest. Those are the kind of letters that find their way into personnel files as well.

[reesek]

maybe in the restaurant world - but it's time to wake up to the 21st century. if a client emailed a complaint about me - my boss would take it as seriously as if they'd called or sent a letter...in fact - people who send letters are viewed in my business as not having a need for quick turnaround. in fact the company i work for directs all customers to use email for any comments/questions...

i say potato, you say potato - let's just all be clear that the fact that i sent my complaint/comment via email in no way de-legitimizes how serious the issue was.

it's kind of moot because i think the restaurant in question would have behaved the same if i'd called, written or sent a bag of barf...

however - regardless of what they thought of the delivery of my message - the content is what's important - and they're idiots to dismiss me because i sent an email.

[Lreda]

It took me forty five minutes to be waited on! With three servers and a dozen other customers present.

I don't mean to be rude but why in the world would you sit at a table for 45 minutes to be ignored? I would have my ass out of there in 15 minutes even if The Pope came out to serve me and apologized for the lengthly wait.

[tommy]

She's puking her guts out, and you want her to stop, find a pen and stationary, write a letter, find a stamp, and walk to the post office to mail it?

that's so beyond ridiculous that i can't even respond other than saying it was beyond ridiculous.

Edited February 3, 2004 by tommy (log)

[Exotic Mushroom]

I don't mean to be rude but why in the world would you sit at a table for 45 minutes to be ignored?

Actually, after the first fifteen minutes and several "We'll be with you in a minutes", I pulled out a book and waited out of sheer morbid curiosity as to how long it would take. Also, I had been out of town for a month and had been looking forward the entire time to being able to eat at this restaurant again. I love their food. I really, really wanted to eat it again.

The glass of wine was the apology. Did you drink it? Then you accepted it.

When I accepted the glass of wine, it was under the assumption that a real apology was forthcoming. The glass of wine meant nothing. I eat there all the time (as I said before, at least once a week). And if I'm eating at a restaurant that charges $30 for an entree, does anyone honestly think I care about a $10 glass of wine? If I had known that was going to be the extent of their apology, I never would have accepted it. I would have walked out, and perhaps made a scene on my way to the door.

[tommy]

however - regardless of what they thought of the delivery of my message - the content is what's important - and they're idiots to dismiss me because i sent an email.

you can dismiss me any time you want, as long as it includes 100 dollars.

[Comfort Me]

calling or writing is always appropriate for any sort of business transaction.  email is rarely appropriate.

Tommy:

I don't have the answer about what the restaurant should do, but...

My firm did over $100m in billables last year -- not bad for a a samll firm -- and I can't think of a business transaction, short of those requiring signatures, which we do not prefer to carry out via e-mail when absolutely possible. And if a signature is needed, I can e-mail the signature page and they can fax it back.

A letter is nice, but communication is communication. Period. If a restaurant gives out their e-mail address, they should check it regularly. And a complaint from a customer is a complaint from a customer.

i lean towards the thought expressed so clearly by Carolyn Tillie:

I feel e-mail is appropriate for conducting business IF a business relationship already exists.

i do business via email all of the time. when i feel it's appropriate. i think pen on paper and a wet signature may have been appropriate in this particular instance.

Well then, you can write Tillie if you'd like. Thank goodness I have no desire to live by the Code of Tommy.

And a relationship did exist -- a restauranteur/customer relationship. Whatever your personal Edict of The Day, if a restaurant gives its e-mail address out freely, then e-mail is acceptable. If they didn't want to do business by e-mail, they wouldn't make it freely available.

Jeez.

[tommy]

you might consider relaxing. veiled personal attacks are inappropriate.

regards,

tommy

Dir. of Daily Personal Edicts

Edited February 3, 2004 by tommy (log)

[Exotic Mushroom]

you can dismiss me any time you want, as long as it includes 100 dollars.

Tommy, do you really believe this? If a restaurant made you sick, or treated you terribly, would you want to return if you just got $100 back for your pain? You wouldn't feel slighted not getting an apology? I mean, the way reesek described her experience, it sounded like they basically told her she was wrong, that their food didn't make her sick, and that they didn't care - but here's some money to make you stop whining. Would that really satisfy you?

[tommy]

you can dismiss me any time you want, as long as it includes 100 dollars.

Tommy, do you really believe this? If a restaurant made you sick, or treated you terribly, would you want to return if you just got $100 back for your pain? You wouldn't feel slighted not getting an apology? I mean, the way reesek described her experience, it sounded like they basically told her she was wrong, that their food didn't make her sick, and that they didn't care - but here's some money to make you stop whining. Would that really satisfy you?

the point was that i wouldn't characterize the restaurant's reaction as "dismissive" considering they offered a make-good.

your mileage my vary.

it sounded like they basically told her she was wrong, that their food didn't make her sick, and that they didn't care

i didn't take that away from the description. again, your mileage may vary.

Edited February 3, 2004 by tommy (log)

[lala]

"i do business via email all of the time. when i feel it's appropriate. i think pen on paper and a wet signature may have been appropriate in this particular instance. "

"WordPerfect/MS Word; press print; use pen to sign; fold letter and mail isn't much more effort than an email and a very powerful way to deal with the problem. It is a hard copy that haunts or praises and carries more weight to recieve correspondence via snail mail from a guest. Those are the kind of letters that find their way into personnel files as well. "

What Tommy Suggested was actually writing a letter - 'pen on paper', the ridiculousness of which is what I responded to. Even if she waited until she was better (when, the next day?), writing a letter and mailing it is the slowest, and most ridiculous way to let a restaurant know that they are serving tainted food.

Regardless, the issue was food poisoning, not how to write a letter. If you write a letter and mail it, by the time it gets to the restaurant, the offending batch of food would most likely have been served to others, making them sick as well.

We're not talking about a "hard copy that haunts or praises and carries more weight to recieve correspondence via snail mail from a guest. Those are the kind of letters that find their way into personnel files as well. "

This isn't something for a personnel file. We're talking about something that at the least, is making people sick ON THAT DAY, and at the worst could kill someone. Not exactly a message that you want to wait for Snail Mail to deliver.

[tommy]

What Tommy Suggested was actually writing a letter - 'pen on paper', the ridiculousness of which is what I responded to.

actually, i was using 'pen on paper' as a euphemism (although upon review i see my wording in one of my several posts may have suggested otherwise). but surely one would sign a letter that was created on a computer.

i don't know many people who hand-write letters. it's certainly not appropriate for professional correspondence.

file. We're talking about something that at the least, is making people sick ON THAT DAY, and at the worst could kill someone. Not exactly a message that you want to wait for Snail Mail to deliver.

the aspect of "warning" the restaurant doesn't seem to be the thrust of this discussion as it was initially framed (although it's certainly a valid issue). the concern seemed to be the compensation and reaction of the restaurant, which is only loosely related to the mode of communication issue currently clouding the discussion.

Edited February 3, 2004 by tommy (log)

[lia]

I suppose these days they'd just charge it to the patron's credit card if someone pulled that.

eh, that rarely does a bit of good, no proof of authorization, the customer disputes the charge, boom, they win.

Debate on email vs. written letter is very interesting. In my experience, email is just as effective as a written letter for a customer complaint and BOTH are far more effective than a phone call.

In the case of food poisoning, after receving the letter, (no matter HOW it was written) a good manager will take the initiative to call the customer asap. An apology for the customer's physical distress and show of concern are always musts as well. Then comes getting the details, time, place, what eaten, how much, how long til symptoms, etc etc. Usually an offer of a gift certificate follows. amount depends on original guest check amount, customer's attitude, and more importantly, how true his or her story rings. (another point is that even if the restaurant DID get other reports of food sickness, he or she ain't about to admit as much to you.) Personally, if instinct and facts tell me that the restaurant DID in fact screw up and the illness is truly genuine and probably our fault (as opposed to a customer over indulging in some extremely rich food and wanting to find a scapegoat...) i will ask the customer how THEY would prefer the situation be handled....and if they don't ever want to come see us again, i'll refund the check amount if they paid by cc. and the chef's will ALWAYS hear about what happened, no matter how trivial it seems. That's not something anyone in the restaurant biz takes lightly....if there IS something amiss in the kitchen, we need to know about it, and i also THANK the customer for bringing the matter to our attention.

another note on gift certificates or other kinds of guest relations practices: keep a log. We started to do so on promo GCs and soon learned that many complaints came from the same apt. building. ha.

Edited February 3, 2004 by lia (log)

[lala]

"the aspect of "warning" the restaurant doesn't seem to be the thrust of this discussion as it was initially framed (although it's certainly a valid issue). the concern seemed to be the compensation and reaction of the restaurant, which is only loosely related to the mode of communication issue currently clouding the discussion."

Tommy, you've been pounding away at the issue of whether or not e-mail is appropriate in the business world, and weighing it against a new or existing relationship, and whether it's professional or not. You cloud, you...

In any case, it sounds like reesek and friends had a horrible time, and the restaurant's reaction was lame. I will say that if it's the restaurant that I think it is, I'm not at all suprised. And I don't think that $100 (not nearly what they spent) would be compensation enough for me. How about an apology and assurances that they're checking the food supply. Why, it would take at least a thousand dollars, and the chance to slap the Chef silly to make me forget that I barfed all night!