BC Wine

[paul mitchell]

Anyone have any favorite picks for bc wines? Anything unusual? New blends?

Thanks

Paul

[Keith Talent]

I think you can extrapolate everything you need to know about BC wine from the number of views this thread has received versus the number of responses.

[wnissen]

Actually, in Vancouver the BC wine was pretty good. It took a little while to get used to the idea that Merlot was a food wine, but I had a very good one from Township 7. A nice sparkler was Hawthorne Mountain Brut "Dosage Zero", and a fine dry Gewurtz I had was 2001 Poplar Grove Late Harvest Gewurztraminer. 2002 Adora Element No. 8, a light, crisp wine that paired well with the heat of Indian food was quite tasty. I also liked the tropicality and balance of the La Frenz Semillon. There is good wine in B.C., but none of it leaves the province so I think you're just not likely to find people who have had it.

Walt

[paul mitchell]

Well I thought that because there seemed to be a rather large contingent

of Vancouverites posting here that I might get some interesting responses.

I live on Vancouver Island and we have some very good wineries such as

Godfrey Brownell or Venturi Schulze. Godfrey Brownell has a dynamite 2001

Chardonnay which sells for $50. Venturi Schulze's 2001 Pinot Noir goes for

$45. Not that price exudes quality by any means. Anyone can go onto a

wineries web page and see what they're selling. It's different though

when you visit a place and learn about the techniques they're using,

the blends they're planning and the story behind that labour of love.

For instance I went down to the Cowichan Valley on Vancouver Island to

buy wine presents for christmas. At Cherry Point vineyards I bought

a couple of bottles of a blackberry port. Through a little chat with

the winemaker I found out that a fellow down the road made an

incredible cheese with the same port. So I went and bought some. On my

way home I stopped into a First Nations arts and crafts store that sold

native carvings and sweaters. The lady there saw my bag from Cherry Point

and laughed and told me the story of how her family picked all the

blackberries for the port on their reserve and then sold them to the

vineyard. In one short afternoon I saw the full circle of a community.

Those are the threads about the BC wine industry that I'm interested in.

[canadiancook]

Paul,

I was on Salt Spring Island last summer for a bit of a holdiay and stopped in at Garry Oaks Winery. They been running for only a few years and have been dependent on purchasing Okanagon grapes for their first few runs of production. However, they had just begun bottling their own estate grapes last year. We did a wine tasting there and found them to be fairly average run-of-the mill BC wine. Cost per bottle ranges from about $16 to $20. They had a decent Pinot Gris and Gewuertz. They had a custom blend that was OK. But what I really liked was their Pinot Noir. Aged in Garry Oak barrels (from Oregon, as Garry Oak trees are a protected species in BC), it had big flavours of plums and raspberry and finished with a lot of smoke, which I was told came specifically from the Garry Oak wood. I bought a few bottles and the strong smokiness matched very well with grilled and barbeque meat.

They don't sell at LCB and are available in only a couple of private shops in Vancouver, but can be ordered online. http://garryoakswine.com/

Jayson.

[Sam Salmon]

Sad to the the sneering tone that Keith Talent has taken-ignorance is never attractive anywhere and cyberspace is no exception.

Keith-Welcome to my ignore list.

Since much of what I cook is spicy seafood and vegetarian dishes I find that the young whites we produce match up well.

Venturi-Schulze http://www.venturischulze.com/index.php -the Millefiori-now called Millecolori-is one of the finest picnic wines I've ever had anywhere.A bit of spritz and a distinct amiable character make it almost worth the price-VS is somewhat overpriced.

Larch Hills Winery http://www.larchhillswinery.com/ Lately I've been impressed by the Gewürztraminer from LH astoundingly good value.

Riesling from Gehringer Brothers are all time favourites-as is their Ehrenfelser.

I'm out of time now if I can I'll pop by later with a few more suggestions.

[Jeffy Boy]

BC has a great range of wines, not all from the Okanagan. Just down the road from us in Langley, Domaine de Chaberton and Township 7 have won some awards recently.

My personal favourites (best value) are Sumac Ridge's Cab-Merlot, and Red Rooster Gewurtztraminer. Red Rooster is tough to find in the liquor stores. Other memorable wines for me include Burrowing Owl Pinot Gris, Jackson-Triggs Vionier and Gehringer Brothers Pinot Noir. I think BC generally does a little better on whites than reds.

A great place to get info on BC wines, with tasting notes, is on Anthony Gismondi's (Vancouver Sun wine columnist) web site at: Gismondi on Wine

BC Rules!

[paul mitchell]

Thanks for the replies. Most appreciated. I suppose Keith Talent

hasn't tried Black Hills Nota Bene or Poplar Grove's Cab Franc / Merlot

A Pity.

Paul

[jcsaucey]

I second the Black Hills Note Bene. Cedar Creek has had two great vintages of Pinor Noir released under their Platinum label, their Meritage is also nice nice. Blasted Church has a great blend of chassellas,guwertz and optima called Hatfeilds Fuse. Great Price on the Blasted Church, the Cedar Creek is around 30 a pop-pretty steep for what it is.

Sumac Ridge makes a great fortified called Pipe, which is probably my favorate overall BC wine.

[Keith Talent]

Apologies, I didn't realize that dissent wasn't appropriate.

I don't like BC Wine, I particularly don't like the BC wine industry. Spoiled, coddled, given every advantage, (except perhaps terroir and climate) they've never managed to make anything drinkable in any significant quantities. Their greatest skill as winemakers is their ability to bully toadying media into claiming the emeror is dressed in magnificent robes, when even the blind can tell he's naked. We as BC consumers pay for this hubris everytime we buy a bottle at the liquor store. If they would concentrate on what we can do well here, icewine and obscure German varietals and drop the pretense that we're perpetually on the cusp of bordeaux blend greatness I would be far less critical.

I'm off to open a bottle of Aussie shiraz, half the price, twice the flavour.

Cheers

[Redhead]

......."they've never managed to make anything drinkable in any significant quantities"....

ZING!!!! Pretty harsh words..... I can only say that in our house we have, over the years, consumed significant quantities of B.C. wine and found them very drinkable indeed. We flipped over some Burrowing Owl only this past summer.

I have yet to find a B.C. red that tickles my palate, it's true. But my tastes in red wine run to very expensive French burgundies, as weighty as gold on the tongue and priced to match. Let's see the Aussies match that!!!

[jcsaucey]

If they would concentrate on what we can do well here, icewine and obscure German varietals and drop the pretense that we're perpetually on the cusp of bordeaux blend greatness I would be far less critical.

This is true. Less Merlot-more Lemberger.

[Coop]

Keith at the risk of ending up having my posts ignored by some of the posters here(I already think most of my posts go ignored anyway) I agree with you. This forum should be for all opinions. I personally don't care for BC wines, and I have always taken people's recomendations of them very lightly. Yes for $50.00 you can buy a red wine from a small producer that is very good, but does it compare with what the same money will buy from the other great wine regions? In most cases no.

I agree also that the industry has been promoted and financed with government money and has yet to show the results we were all led to believe would be forth coming. I have also used your emperors clothes reference when I here otherwise sane chefs promote BC wines as the equivilent of the finest in the world.

The wine buying public will continue to vote with their dollars on this issue. Outside of BC the sales seem to be very light. I doubt this is from lack of promotion. Find me a BC wine that compare with these value wise:

Coudelet de Beaucastel 2000 $27.95

Case de L'Ermite 2001 $23.95

Perrin Vacquerayas Les Chasselet 2000 $22.00

Omaka Springs Sauvignon Blanc or Kim Crawford around $23.00

[Keith Talent]

That's it, Coop is on ignore. He dared speak poorly of Burgundy West.

Best line ever; "Outside of BC the sales seem to be very light. I doubt this is from lack of promotion."

The thing that galls me isn't the spirit of experimentation that pervades the winemakers in the interior, (purposefully ignoring the AC's of Langley/Cowichan, these are clearly crazy people without a clue), I think they should be applauded for thier innovation. No, what peeves me is they make product in hobbyist quantities and claim to be commercial wineries. If a wine doesn't exist in sufficient quantity to fill the supply chaion at least once, it doesn't really exist, does it? 50 cases is not a commercial wine, it's a hobby, and I'm not suprised that a devoted, deepocketed, tax incentived hobbyist can have small successes.

[Jeffy Boy]

If a wine doesn't exist in sufficient quantity to fill the supply chaion at least once, it doesn't really exist, does it?

Is this a corollary to that "tree falling in a forest" thing? Last time I had wine from a small BC producer, I'm pretty sure it was wine.

I have no problem with those who don't like BC wine, or don't think BC makes any good wine. That will help keep demand down, and prices down, and be better for me!

[tofino]

Without digressing into the 'lets slam BC wines vein' i agree with the Black Hills Nota Bene as well as a relatively new Semillion blend (sorry can't remember the second grape) from Saturna Island Vineyards - brought back memories of the "I am getting well known now so I will raise my prices New Zealand sauvignon blanc". Being from Ontario and having lived in the Finger lakes region of NY, as well as several other 'lesser' wine producing regions in the States, I have to say I feel the BC wine industry whether subsidized or not is doing very well. For anyone to believe that the other wine regions of North America are not funded or subsidized in the same respect as the BC industry would be very mis-informed. I have several friends who are wine distributors in the USA, and numerous sommeliers throughout North America, and most of them have been very impressed with the product coming from this province. It may not be for everyone, but that is good, if everyone wants it, we become like Napa and Sonoma where average plonk sells for moderate prices because of the 'demand' for the product. All in all, every wine region has some great hidden gems that won't kill the pocketbook - but if the only place you look is the liquor store you will not really know that regions wines at all. By the way I love Hillary Abbotts cheeses that were mentioned earlier in this thread from the Cowichan Valley.

[froufrou]

As my husband and I were blessed to be able to live in Calgary Canada for the past three years, we were also blessed to discover that Canada also produced lovely wines from the Okanogan area which we enjoyed exploring while living there. As we had moved there from France and had become a little bit of wine snobs, we were pleasantly surprised with what we found.

No, it's not anything compared to a fantastic vintage of a superb region of France but we were happy with what we found. We appreciate and don't over look the possibility of having wonderful wines again from the Okanogan area.

Once agin we are living the life back in France and enjoying the French wines and when in France, why drink anything else.

Cheers!

Renee

[robyn]

That's it, Coop is on ignore. He dared speak poorly of Burgundy West.

Best line ever; "Outside of BC the sales seem to be very light. I doubt this is from lack of promotion." 

The thing that galls me isn't the spirit of experimentation that pervades the winemakers in the interior, (purposefully ignoring the AC's of Langley/Cowichan, these are clearly crazy people without a clue), I think they should be applauded for thier innovation. No, what peeves me is they make product in hobbyist quantities and claim to be commercial wineries. If a wine doesn't exist in sufficient quantity to fill the supply chaion at least once, it doesn't really exist, does it? 50 cases is not a commercial wine, it's a hobby, and I'm not suprised that a devoted, deepocketed, tax incentived hobbyist can have small successes.

This is kind of a hard discussion to follow (I don't know who's being sarcastic - and who isn't). But I'd just like to share my impressions of BC wines (I live in Florida). We had several good ones last time we were there (one from Burrowing Owl was our favorite). But they don't seem to make very much of it. And what little they do make doesn't get very far from Vancouver (I tried to buy some when we got home - no luck). So - unless you live in BC - it's kind of a boutiquey thing you enjoy when you're visiting. Robyn

[wnissen]

Wow, I was not aware of the strong feelings surrounding this issue. My opinion (formed over a four day visit, for what it's worth) is that BC is a good quality "boutique" wine region. Go into a Napa tasting room and often as not their bread-and-butter will be oaky Chardonnays at US$20 and up. I have had a lot of decent but expensive wine in Napa. On the whole, I found the style of the BC wines I had to be much more to my liking than a California wine.

I live in a minor California wine region (Livermore Valley) and it's pretty much the same situation. Most of the wineries are in the 5,000 case or smaller range, it's impossible to find outside of the area, and a decent bottle starts at $US12 or so. Grapes are only lightly subsidized in the U.S., so maybe it's not quite comparable, but in the main... Most of my inexpensive wines do not come from the local wineries, even though they're three miles from my house. They come from the Central Coast of California, Australia, Spain, France, etc. I just treat it as a blessing to have all those fun wineries nearby and don't really worry about the value proposition.

Walt

[Keith Talent]

See, have a cathartic temper tantrum above and over the last two weeks, everytime I turn around, someone is handing me a glass of good BC wine.

Impressed with Lang Vineyards Grand Pinot 2001 ($18). Wife went and bought three bottles so I'll be interested to open one and see if it matches my recollection, or if it was a case of wine being improved by food, company and ambience. (I had it originally as one of the wines in the flight at Bis Moreno) I'll crack one of the bottles as soon as the lingering head congestion that makes everything taste like ten dollar Chilian Cab goes away.

Also had a 2001 Cedar Creek Platnium Reserve Pinot Noir which was drinkable, which for Cedar Creek seems to be an achievement. Last time I had a Pinot from the it was orange. Not orange tinged, Tang (like on an Apollo mission) orange. That was ten years ago probably. And although the recent Pinot was tasty, it was also 35 bucks, which seems slightly unreasonable.

[froufrou]

Quails' Gate Estate Winery gets my vote. If you'are ever in the area go there for an informative tour and tasting, while there enjoy a wonderful meal over looking a beauitful setting. It's a great way to spend the afternoon.

A winery known for its great tradition, history and quality wines Quails' Gate is one of Canada's most noted wineries. The first significant vineyards on the Westbank slopes were planted by Richard Stewart. The property at that time was known as Allison Ranch. Quails' Gate has delevoped a line of wines now bearing the Allison Ranch name. Ben Stewart is Owner and CEO, Ashley Hooper is the winemaker

As we drove into the winery we were impressed by its beautiful location, landscaping and building design. It was a wonderful place to be. I strolled the entire length of the vineyard; watching the quails scurry away as I approached. There really are quails at Quails' Gate.

[eatbc]

I agree with the post regarding Quail's Gate, but it should be noted that Ashley Hooper has departed. The new winemaker is Grant Stanley, originally from B.C. but has spent the last decade in New Zealand, most recently assistant winemaker at the acclaimed Ata Rangi winery. He is quite talented and will bring great improvements to Quail’s Gate.

As for the general B.C. wine posts, I’m still surprised to hear people say they “don’t drink B.C. wines”. Maybe if they haven’t tried any since 1993, the sentiment would make sense, but with a little work (private wine shops, restaurant recommendations) and a little research (gismondi.com or bcwine.com) it’s easy to find our delightful whites. The pinot gris and pinot blanc are as good as any North Americans, and the crispness of BC chardonnays and aromatic varieties make them excellent food wines and a refreshing change from the (still) over-oaked mass-produced Australian and Californian top 10.

Yes, the red wines have a little evolution ahead of them, but remember how young this industry is here, starting in earnest only in 1990 or so, when many growers finally planted vinifera varieties.

Having said this, I admit that there is still a lot of bad, bad wine made here. You just need to look a little to find some real gems.

Burrowing Owl, Poplar Grove, Quail’s Gate, Stag’s Hollow, Blue Mountain, La Frenz are just a few quality producers.

[Keith Talent]

remember how young this industry is here, starting in earnest only in 1990 or so,

Uhh, I think your sense of history is slighly short sighted. I've been hearing "give BC time, it's young" since before I was legal to drink, and that's been more than fifteen years. I remember my parents going to the Okanogan Wine Festival when I was in high school in the early eighties. I remember how Nafta was going to kill the finally well established BC wine industry, and that was more than ten years ago. The industry has been around longer than they'd like you to think, I suspect.

[eatbc]

OK, ok, technically it started in 1859 when Father Pandosy planted vines in the Mission area of Kelowna, but I was referring to the serious planting of quality vinifera grapes following the Canada United States Free Trade agreement of 1988, when the BC and federal governments paid growers to pull up inferior vines and plant premium European varieties. In 1990 the BC government unveiled the Premium Wine policy and established the Vintners Quality Alliance, a marketing body which succeeded (to a limited extent) to spur growth in quality wines here.

You must admit, at 13 harvests the premium Okanagan wine industry is very young when compared to “new-world” regions like California, Australia, New Zealand, Chile, or even Washington State.

[merlin]

Have read with interest, the discussion above.

We buy BC wines and to a lesser extent due to availability ON wines, whenever we can and always when visiting the Okanagan, Vancouver Island or the Niagara/Beamsville Bench regions.

There is no question that the quality of wine has improved significantly over the past few years and certainly since, as EatBC has pointed out, the industry has become focussed on vinifera bottlings rather than the big bottles of plonk of the days of Calona Red, Brights and the like.

Great wine? Perhaps not, but certainly good wine especially the whites and I have seen some promise with the reds too.

The "problem" to a certain degree is price. There does come a time when I have to put a ceiling on patriotism.

Most of my favourites have been mentioned above. We had a lovely bottle of the reserve/striped label Blue Mountain Pinot Noir with dinner last nite. I would venture the observation that it would compare favourably with any other New World pinot. With Burgundy? Likely not but now we are really talking ridiculous money. I also thoroughly enjoy their sparkling wine, pinot gris [the varietal which I think BC does the best of any whether it be Lang, Burrowing Owl, Gehringer, Alderlea or someone else], chardonnay and gamay noir.

I have enjoyed the Old Vines Foch from Quails Gate. More so when Jeff Martin was the winemaker before going to La Frenz. It prompted a "cult following" here in AB some years ago and the prices skyrocketted up to the $28 or $29 mark so that factor combined with what I perceived to be a deterioration in quality [ie. less dense and intense] stopped me from buying more. Now the price has decreased in some stores to close to what the winery will charge and I have enjoyed it again.

I had a bottle on week-end of the Red Rooster Meritage. It was terrific. Hugh black fruit with a structure that I think will improve with some more time in the bottle. However, at $32 locally there is a lot of competition if you are prepared to pay that price. I see it is about $9 cheaper at the winery.

Ditto, for the Jackson-Triggs Proprietor's Grand Reserve Okanagan Meritage. Expensive but delicious.

I am really enjoying the syrah and cabernet Franc from Burrowing Owl.

I agree with those who have endorsed the Note Bene from Black Hills. It was our "wine find" during our annual trip to Tofino a couple of years ago.

I mentioned La Frenz. I like their merlot, semillon and viognier but they are impossible to find locally except that I heard that one of the private wine stores I frequent will be bringing it in.

The Alderlea Pinot Gris we had at the Long Beach Lodge Resort last fall was delicious. Like some from Lang it was a deceptive colour. Salmon-berry like. You thought sweet but it was vinted dry.

Again quirky and expensive the offerings from Venturi-Schulzte with their crown cap closures.

We are looking forward to heading back out to the coast to have some more good BC wine.