Starting a Restaurant in NYC

beans · January 15, 2004

Sure there are for the heart of the house, however I've never seen one for the front of the house.

Restaurant owners don't seem to be concerned with training and contributing to the learning (not all for the charity of doing same but as solid recruiting grounds for developing future relationships with talented individuals, as well as make use of their talents for the benefit of the day to day operation) for anyone in the front of the house part of the industry. Simply they need someone to attend to guests while selling the hell out of the chef's features, inclusive of management. They need a solid service staff with a management team, that will have nearly as much commitment as the ownership, to make sure it runs smoothly and efficiently. Perhaps "interns" waiting tables, seating guests, or managing those that doing so, would not have that type of commitment as a culinary student hoping ot get that foot in the door of a fine restaurant, reputable kitchen/chef?

I certainly hope the above is not the absolute and that perhaps training ground sorts of FOH opportunities are available, you just need to find them.

Culinary school with hospitality management areas of study would be most beneficial. Many of the schools run an open to the public restaurant wherein students rotate with managing the FOH service, wait tables, hostess, etc. All very good experience.

Still plugging for you Bond Girl!

Cusina · January 15, 2004

First off, I have no real experience in the business except the eating part. Just add me in as part of the cheerleading squad. :smile:

Dreamland me would like to see you keep the Sommelier on your staff and make him/her a key player, someone with serious good character that becomes the centerpiece of your place (how about you?? get a wine internship). Make the restaurant a wine and beer bar with a menu that focuses on excellent food/beverage matching.

And while I'm dreaming will you please bring it here to Appleton, Wisconsin? We sure could use a place like that! And boy howdy, the rent is cheap.

This is random, but I'll give you a link for interiors that could save you some $$. The owners of this place are friends of ours (their daughter is in my daughter's 1st grade class, how is that for wholesome?) They have done several beautiful restaurants here. Excellent ambience with reclaimed materials. Urban Evolutions They are putting a reclaimed wood floor from a hotel in Deluth in our studio this coming week. Can't wait, it's going to be gorgeous.

This is very interesting reading. I wish you all the best in this venture!

Franky2Times · January 15, 2004

JosephB, I am more familiar with kitchen internships but some very upscale restaurants also accept interns to work with the sommeliers. As for the front of the house, I don't know any manager with an ounce of brain who would refuse free help. If you're talking about a waiter's job, you also have the "dead shifts" that nobody wants such as Tuesday's lunch. Most places will train you on such shifts and let you keep whatever tips you get. You can always get whatever training you want if you push the right buttons...

beans · January 15, 2004

You can always get whatever training you want if you push the right buttons...

Those are usually called friends in the right places! :wink: :raz:

alacarte · January 16, 2004

I just received the following thru the James Beard Greens e-mail list. A little field research? Apparently James Beard members get discounted tix for $7 each (I'm not a member, oh well.)

EAT THIS NEW YORK
A DOCUMENTARY FILM ABOUT THE BUSINESS OF FOOD
www.eatthisnewyork.com or www.organicpictures.com
JANUARY 30th through FEBRUARY 6th.
ONE WEEK EXCLUSIVE SHOWING AT THE CINEMA VILLAGE, NEW YORK CITY.
22 EAST 12th Street (Between 5th and University)
Show your James Beard Foundation membership card for discount
STARRING: Daniel Boulud, Sirio Maccioni, Keith McNally, Drew Nieporent, Jean-Georges Vongerichten, Danny Meyer, Tim Zagat, Billy Phelps and John McCormick.
SYNOPSIS: EAT THIS NEW YORK is a documentary film about two best friends' struggle to open a restaurant in the food capital of the world. As Billy Phelps and John McCormick suffer through financial crisis, the loss of their chef, and a crumbling relationship, the filmmakers turn the camera on New York City's legendary restaurateurs who reflect on the challenges of opening and running a restaurant. Like the chorus of a Greek play, Daniel Boulud, Sirio Maccioni, Keith McNally, Drew Nieporent, Jean-Georges Vongerichten, and Danny Meyer act as a foil to the idealistic entrepreneurs.

JosephB · January 16, 2004

I got the same e-mail, but we saw the documentary on TV a few weeks ago. I think it was PBS or Bravo. It was pretty good. It's odd that it's now being released in a theater.

Bond Girl · January 16, 2004

I am a member. PM me if anyone wants to go.

herbacidal · January 16, 2004

I got the same e-mail, but we saw the documentary on TV a few weeks ago. I think it was PBS or Bravo. It was pretty good. It's odd that it's now being released in a theater.

I think there was something on the website that indicated possible showing on Sundance Channel. Since I don't get Sundance, would you know if it will be showing on PBS or Bravo again?

Bond Girl · January 16, 2004

Speaking of back of the house internships....I've been wondering...Since I haven't been in a professional kitchen for over 10 years, wouldn't I just get in the way?

SobaAddict70 · January 16, 2004

Don't forget insurance, in case anything untowards occurs that might be cause for regret later down the road.

Also, best of luck, Y-R.

Soba

whoops, NYCChef mentioned it already. You mentioned Lower East Side. That area has had a history of conflict with the local community boards with respect to the "bar and restaurant NIMBY syndrome". Hopefully things will work out in your favor that this issue won't be too much of a thorn.

herbacidal · January 16, 2004

Speaking of back of the house internships....I've been wondering...Since I haven't been in a professional kitchen for over 10 years, wouldn't I just get in the way?

Very possible. Best to find a place semi-out of the way but with a good view, and stay there as long as reasonble.

JosephB · January 16, 2004

Speaking of back of the house internships....I've been wondering...Since I haven't been in a professional kitchen for over 10 years, wouldn't I just get in the way?

I thought you didn't have any restaurant experience? I wouldn't worry about being in the way; the kitchen staff will run you over if you get in the way.

Bond Girl · January 17, 2004

I don't have any professional restaurant experience, but that doesn't mean I never been in a professional restaurant kitchen :wink:

reggie_212 · January 17, 2004

I got the same e-mail, but we saw the documentary on TV a few weeks ago. I think it was PBS or Bravo. It was pretty good. It's odd that it's now being released in a theater.

Was this the documentary about the guys in Brooklyn who started some wine bar/panini place in Williamsburg? I remember seeing it but am not sure whether it's the same documentary. Now that I think about it, it has to be te same. I remember a scene where Maccioni's son, who manages the place on 55th st went out to buy a camera for a girl who was having a birthday party.

jogoode · January 17, 2004

one of the many priceless scenes in that documentary (Eat This New York) is the one in which one of Maccioni's sons runs out to buy that camera and bumps into his brother, who has already bought the camera, coming out of the store. A great movie -- and strongly recommended for anyone with aspirations to open a restaurant.

JosephB · January 17, 2004

I don't have any professional restaurant experience, but that doesn't mean I never been in a professional restaurant kitchen

I see, you must have been passing through the kitchen on your way to the restroom or something like that. I've done that too!

JosephB · January 17, 2004

I got the same e-mail, but we saw the documentary on TV a few weeks ago. I think it was PBS or Bravo. It was pretty good. It's odd that it's now being released in a theater.
I think there was something on the website that indicated possible showing on Sundance Channel. Since I don't get Sundance, would you know if it will be showing on PBS or Bravo again?

It was Sundance. We talked about it here

Bond Girl · January 17, 2004

I don't have any professional restaurant experience, but that doesn't mean I never been in a professional restaurant kitchen
I see, you must have been passing through the kitchen on your way to the restroom or something like that. I've done that too!

Yeah, that's it! :laugh:

Seriously, I will take my cue from Herb and make staying out of the way my main objective.

Bond Girl · January 21, 2004

Just heard that the new Thomas Keller place is $12 MM in investment....I want to know who's investing in it? And, how does Thomas Keller plan to turn a profit on $12 MM.

jogoode · January 21, 2004

Just heard that the new Thomas Keller place is $12 MM in investment....I want to know who's investing in it? And, how does Thomas Keller plan to turn a profit on $12 MM.

I don't think he cares -- I can't imagine that any of that 12 million is his.

jackal10 · January 21, 2004

lets see...

suppose the profit on a cover is $100 top end..implies a bill of around $300/cover or more. Tough, but possible for a top end restaurant with a serious wine list.

and they do say 100 covers/day, or $10K/day, £3M/year roughly,

That would pay the interest on 12M easy

Bond Girl · January 21, 2004

lets see...
suppose the profit on a cover is $100 top end..implies a bill of around $300/cover or more. Tough, but possible for a top end restaurant with a serious wine list.
and they do say 100 covers/day, or $10K/day, £3M/year roughly,
That would pay the interest on 12M easy

How realistic is it to achieve a 30% profit margin in this business? And, they have to be booked solid for a whole year, which could happen. Using my last bill at French Laundry as a baseline, I say $300/cover is achievable for Keller.

Assuming that some institution would actually lend him $12MM, which I think would probably be structured as mezzanine debt, so you are looking at interest rate of over 7%....which means that he probably would have a tough time paying the principal back, can he keep on refinancing this forever?

Edit: okay investors gets money back when restaurant is sold but not wouldn't make a very profitable deal for anyone investing in it, would it?

eatpie · January 21, 2004

Along the same lines as this post...are there any quintessential books about the restaurant biz? Ive read Kitchen Confidential. Very entertaining. Im looking for a book that details the business elements of starting your own restaurant.

Obviously, on the job training would be the best learning route. At this point, I'd just like to do a bit of homework on the biz. Has anyone taken a class they would recommend (I'm in NY) or had a textbook that was helpful?

Bond Girl · January 21, 2004

Drew Nieporent's "How to open a restaurant" seminar is awesome! Really interesting information packed into two days. And, from the person who really knows how.

jackal10 · January 21, 2004

30% is tough but possible with big markups on wine and extras

Rough budget is:

30% food costs

30% Staff costs

30% overheads (heat, light, power, phones, insurance, rates, taxes, card charges, printing, marketing, flowers, laundry, linen, breakages, maintenance etc etc)

That leaves 10% profit. Maybe.

No allowance for contingencies, or bad weather...

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