How to Cook A Prime Rib?

[robyn]

Is Yorkshire pudding permitted for Hanukkah?

I'm sure it's permitted - but why bother when you have kugel .

Here's my recipe:

Cook 12 ounces wide flat egg noodles until tender (I use Mueller's). Comes in 16 ounce bags. I throw a little away.

While noodles are cooking (or before if you're a bit slow like I am ) - beat 3 eggs, 1/4 cup sugar or less to taste - I use less, 2/3 cup farmer's cheese (1 US package), 1/2 tsp. cinnamon, 1/4 tsp. nutmeg, 1/2 cup sour cream and 1/2 cup golden raisins.

When noodles are done - toss with some butter - 1/8 to 1/4 cup melted. Pour egg mixture over noodles and stir just a bit to mix. Put mixture in casserole dish - glass - pyrex - etc. which has been sprayed with Pam. Sprinkle with some cinnamon. Dot with a little melted butter.

Bake uncovered at 350 for 30 minutes (at which point it will be a little brown on top).

Let set for about 5 minutes and serve. This keeps well in the refrigerator (covered) and reheats well in the microwave.

By the way - thanks for all of these messages. It's taking some time to read and think and respond - and I have to eat dinner now. Will get to all of them eventually. Thanks again. Robyn

[phaelon56]

I'm in Florida. Even though it's North Florida - it was 70 today - with high humidity. It's supposed to be 30 Thursday morning. I doubt my environment is sufficiently controlled to insure that I get "aged" beef - as opposed to "rotten" beef. Robyn

I don't think exterior temps and humidity (or that inside the house) should make a difference. Isn't the interiror of a refrigerator a temp and humidty controlled environment in the same manner that an AC unit not only reduces temp in the house but reduces humidity? IIRC the key was temoerature - he suggested putting the roast toward the bottom of the fridge and towards the back in order to get the coolest spot but they did show him measurung the temp first to determine whether he needed to adjust the fridge up or down to get the target temp.

I recognize that the effects of dry aging are not to everyone's likning nor are the risks but seems worth a try as a way of improving the cuts of meat most of us will have to contend with for home cooking.

[mnebergall]

This thread has led me to conclude that there are several ways to cook a standing rib roast. Which method to follow likely will depend on the facilities one has at hand and what else one intends to serve with the meal. For instance, if one only has a single oven and intends to serve roasted potatos with the meal, the low heat (Alton Brown) method probably will not suffice and the high heat sear followed by the medium heat roast will be the default.

[badthings]

Today's SF Chron tests several methods.

[robyn]

I don't think exterior temps and humidity (or that inside the house) should make a difference. Isn't the interiror of a refrigerator a temp and humidty controlled environment in the same manner that an AC unit not only reduces temp in the house but reduces humidity? IIRC the key was temoerature - he suggested putting the roast toward the bottom of the fridge and towards the back in order to get the coolest spot but they did show him measurung the temp first to determine whether he needed to adjust the fridge up or down to get the target temp.

I recognize that the effects of dry aging are not to everyone's likning nor are the risks but seems worth a try as a way of improving the cuts of meat most of us will have to contend with for home cooking.

If I were going to try to his method - I'd probably use the refrigerator in the garage. And to tell you the truth - I don't know what happens to the inside of it when it's 35 - as opposed to 95. Doesn't much matter when all that's in there is beer and water and soda. But I think I'd want to be a bit more careful with a relatively expensive cut of beef. Think I will buy a refrigerator thermometer and check it out.

I know what dry aged beef is - but I don't think I've had it more than a couple of times in my life - and I know I've never had dry aged prime rib. My husband and I just don't eat a lot of beef. It's partially a health thing - and partially a question of simply liking to eat lighter things when it's hot (which it is here most of the year). It is only when those cold fronts roll through in the winter months that our minds turn to heartier fare than we usually eat. So I'm not sure whether it's to my liking to not. I'll have to give it a try. Robyn

[robyn]

Depends how you like it, and what equipment you have.

The object is to get the meat to 55C/130C (rare) to 65C/150C (well done).

Best tip is to use a  digital thermometer that you can read from outside the oven...

My husband picked up a digital thermometer today. Very zippy. We'll make good use of it. We probably won't be making a lot of prime rib roasts - but we make things like turkey all the time - and I'll be making a pork loin on Christmas (did I mention we have a mixed marriage - I have to know how to cook everything!). Robyn

[robyn]

This is from another site I posted to about a year ago,

hope it helps.

Here is how I prepare a 109 (prime rib).

When you order your meat specify if you want "choice" or "prime"

For prime rib I have no problem with "choice" $2.50 less a # than prime.

Pre heat your oven (I use a convection) to 325 degrees...

Yes it helps - although it is a good thing I can divide - learned how to do that with recipes from the New Professional Chef .

Is a convection oven better than a regular oven for this? I have both. I usually find that I have to experiment with recipes to get the temperature and cooking time right when I want to use the convection oven.

Note that my oven has an "auto-convert" feature from regular to convection - but it's based on a stupid algorithm and it doesn't work (in my opinion). Robyn

[Marlene]

I use my convection oven for roasting now always. I'm absolutely blown away by the difference it makes

[FoodZealot]

Last year some friends and I did a standing rib roast pretty much according to a Cooks Illustrated recipe - "aged" it for a few days, browned it, brushed it with mustard, applied some seasoning/crust and roasted at a fairly low temp (250°?) throughout the cooking time. We were really happy with the results.

photo courtesy of Richard Velasco.

For good or bad, this method seemed to produce meat without much variation in doneness, i.e. the whole roast was medium rare. I think this is the first slice off the end. We anticipated this somewhat, and had also another smaller roast roasted to be medium doneness, but we still didn't end up with enough medium well and well done, so we put a pan on the stove and finished some off to people's liking. I normally take my steaks charred rare, but I think for this type of preparation I'm now starting to prefer medium doneness for that firmer chew.

I'd also like to add on a few minutes of high heat at the end to get a deeper roasted flavor with sizzling fat. And next time I'll be more aggressive with salt.

[budrichard]

Last year some friends and I did a standing rib roast pretty much according to a Cooks Illustrated recipe - "aged" it for a few days, browned it, brushed it with mustard, applied some seasoning/crust and roasted at a fairly low temp (250°?) throughout the cooking time. We were really happy with the results.

photo courtesy of Richard Velasco.

For good or bad, this method seemed to produce meat without much variation in doneness, i.e. the whole roast was medium rare. I think this is the first slice off the end. We anticipated this somewhat, and had also another smaller roast roasted to be medium doneness, but we still didn't end up with enough medium well and well done, so we put a pan on the stove and finished some off to people's liking. I normally take my steaks charred rare, but I think for this type of preparation I'm now starting to prefer medium doneness for that firmer chew.

I'd also like to add on a few minutes of high heat at the end to get a deeper roasted flavor with sizzling fat. And next time I'll be more aggressive with salt.

If you follow the method I outlined from Pepin you avoid all the problesm you found with your roast.

The outside will be browned, salty with great taste.

The ends will have well and medium slices and most of the interior will be the rare where the charachter of the meat has changed from raw to cooked and pink. This is for a whole roast.

You will not have to cook two roasts.

You will not have to add time at high heat at the end which is the worst time to brown the roast.

I am not trying to flame, believe me, but I have a difficult time consolidating your statement "We were really happy with the results" with your "for good or bad" statement? Also your picture looks like a very underdone rib roast.

After hearing and viewing your results my initial opinion of reading the Cook's article in confirmed. They wasted a lot of time and effort and probably screwed up a lot of roasts for people who followed thier method when tried and tested methods of cooking a rib roast have been around for years.-Dick

[FoodZealot]

If you follow the method I outlined from Pepin you avoid all the problesm you found with your roast.

The outside will be browned, salty with great taste.

The ends will have well and medium slices and most of the interior will be the rare where the charachter of the meat has changed from raw to cooked and pink. This is for a whole roast.

You will not have to cook two roasts.

You will not have to add time at high heat at the end which is the worst time to brown the roast.

I am not trying to flame, believe me, but I have a difficult time consolidating your statement "We were really happy with the results" with your "for good or bad" statement? Also your picture looks like a very underdone rib roast.

After hearing and viewing your results my initial opinion of reading the Cook's article in confirmed. They wasted a lot of time and effort and probably screwed up a lot of roasts for people who followed thier method when tried and tested methods of cooking a rib roast have been around for years.-Dick

Dick, thanks for your comments. I respect your opinion and I'll have to try the Pepin method sometime.

Just to offer more details, without being defensive - in this particular case, we had to do two roasts anyway for the number of people that were coming, and the number that preferred well done was more than would be served by the four end sections. The other faction wanted rare to medium rare. At the time, I wasn't aware of eGullet to draw from its collective wisdom, so we tried to accomodate both groups as best we could and we still underestimated the well done crowd.

I'll try to clarify my "for good or bad" statement. I was trying to comment the method itself. Separate from any idea of the ideal roast beef, this method seems to result (in my one attempt) in the same level of doneness throughout the roast. This might not be your preference, but if a small group was doing a small roast and they all wanted medium, a low temperature method might be preferable to a high/low method which would probably create the well done end sections you describe. Another thing I noticed was that the internal temperature really did not rise while it rested. I removed it at 127° expecting it to get to about 135°, but it didn't. The picture looks a bit more red than it actually was, but yes, it was much more rare than I expected.

As someone who usually likes a rare steak, I was probably too worried about overcooking it. By happy accident (and maybe we are an unsophisticated bunch) several people said that they preferred their roast beef this rare and were very pleased.

As for my apparent self-contradiction, I guess it would have been more accurate to say, "Given the circumstances, the results were about 92% of what I wanted. Note that this may not be the method for everyone. In the end everyone got a nice piece of meat to their desired doneness, even if we had to scramble around at the last minute."

~Tad

[robyn]

If you follow the method I outlined from Pepin you avoid all the problesm you found with your roast.

The outside will be browned, salty with great taste.

The ends will have well and medium slices and most of the interior will be the rare where the charachter of the meat has changed from raw to cooked and pink. This is for a whole roast.

You will not have to cook two roasts.

You will not have to add time at high heat at the end which is the worst time to brown the roast.

I am not trying to flame, believe me, but I have a difficult time consolidating your statement "We were really happy with the results" with your "for good or bad" statement? Also your picture looks like a very underdone rib roast.

After hearing and viewing your results my initial opinion of reading the Cook's article in confirmed. They wasted a lot of time and effort and probably screwed up a lot of roasts for people who followed thier method when tried and tested methods of cooking a rib roast have been around for years.-Dick

You said in your original message that the exact times and temps were meaningless since our ovens might be different. Could you give me a clue - pretty please ?

The initial browning ("sear") on high heat - are you talking 300-400-500 degrees? Bake or broil?

The lower temp cooking - is it 150-250-350?

Then there's the final "warming" at 200 or less.

Also - 100F - even for rare - sounds very low. Did you really mean 100F?

By the way - if you or anyone else has an opinion - is there any advantage doing the "sear" before the cooking - as in Pepin's method - as opposed to doing the "sear" after the cooking - as in Alton Brown's method. Robyn

[woodburner]

By the way - if you or anyone else has an opinion - is there any advantage doing the "sear" before the cooking - as in Pepin's method - as opposed to doing the "sear" after the cooking - as in Alton Brown's method. Robyn

Personally I believe the low oven temperature results in a roast that will be cooked more uniformly exterior to interior and end to end. Some people like it cooked like that and some do not.

Bud mentions that Pepin's procedure results with end pieces that are medium with the interior being more to the rare side. That works well for a table full of eater's asking for different degrees of doneness.

I also conclude that how you sear, whether at the beginning or in the end makes little difference, though I prefer the end.

How you sear can make a bigger difference.

Searing or browning all sides in a cast iron pan, on the stove, prior to roasting can start the carmelization process of the extreme exterior without a sharp rise in the interior. Also allowing for a more even doneness end to end.

Now matter how you cook it, just don't overcook it.

woodburner

[robyn]

Personally I believe the low oven temperature results in a roast that will be cooked more uniformly exterior to interior and end to end. Some people like it cooked like that and some do not.

Bud mentions that Pepin's procedure results with end pieces that are medium with the interior being more to the rare side. That works well for a table full of eater's asking for different degrees of doneness.

I also conclude that how you sear, whether at the beginning or in the end makes little difference, though I prefer the end.

How you sear can make a bigger difference.

Searing or browning all sides in a cast iron pan, on the stove, prior to roasting can start the carmelization process of the extreme exterior without a sharp rise in the interior. Also allowing for a more even doneness end to end.

Now matter how you cook it, just don't overcook it.

woodburner

Like I said - I've never cooked a prime rib - but I've cooked things like pork tenderloin - tenderloin of beef - etc. - and I've always done the initial "sear" on the stove. Have never ruined any of these cuts of meat before (and they're relatively lean) - so I don't imagine a roast beef would be the worse for wear. Only problem is the whole kitchen winds up full of smoke.

Like I mentioned at the beginning - I'm trying to wind up with a roast that's rare in the middle - well done at the ends (I eat rare meat, my husband likes well done - I like dark meat, my husband likes white meat - etc. - etc. - you get the idea - makes for very little waste in the kitchen ).

If I want it rare in the middle - what meat temperature should I be looking for before I take the roast out to rest? Robyn

[woodburner]

If I want it rare in the middle - what meat temperature should I be looking for before I take the roast out to rest? Robyn

That would depend on what your roasting temperature is.

woodburner

[Marlene]

If you want it rare in the middle, take it out at 115-118 and let it rest for 10 to 15 minutes. Don't sear before cooking. You've got a convection oven, and that's going to give a roast that size a nice crust.

[ronnie_suburban]

If I want it rare in the middle - what meat temperature should I be looking for before I take the roast out to rest?  Robyn

Depending on the method and the temperature, carry-over can add nearly 10% to the internal temperature of the roast when you remove it from the oven.

Sometimes I'll convect a roast at around 325-330 F, remove it from the oven when it hits an internal temperature of 125 F, and see the internal temperature of the roast rise to nearly 140 F before we serve it...and that's a little too done for our liking, so do be careful.

=R=

[woodburner]

Don't sear before cooking. You've got a convection oven, and that's going to give a roast that size a nice crust.

Hmmm,

I thought Robin mentioned that the algorithim was fussed up on her convection, in one post, and then I just found the post that said it worked fine. I was working under an assumption that this was going to be done conventional.

woodburner

[Marlene]

Here is the finished product of a roast I made a while ago, roasting at 300 degrees convection heat, no searing before hand.

http://images.egullet.com/u6080/i1639.jpg]Prime Rib

Ok, I keep trying to make it smaller!

[guajolote]

The ends will have well and medium slices and most of the interior will be the rare where the charachter of the meat has changed from raw to cooked and pink. This is for a whole roast.

You will not have to cook two roasts.

why would anyone want any portion that is well-done?

You will not have to add time at high heat at the end which is the worst time to brown the roast.

why is this the worst time? "maillardized" meat is "maillardized" meat. please provide some real evidence.

[robyn]

why would anyone want any portion that is well-done?

Got me - my husband likes his eggs nearly raw and his meat well done. I always make him have the eggs done enough so I'm assured he won't get sick eating them - but if he wants well done beef - that's his problem as far as I'm concerned. Robyn

[robyn]

Hmmm,

I thought Robin mentioned that the algorithim was fussed up on her convection, in one post, and then I just found the post that said it worked fine. I was working under an assumption that this was going to be done conventional.

woodburner

The algorithm in the "autoconvert" feature (from regular to convection) on my convection oven is defective - but I can do things manually (regular or convection) any way I want to. Robyn

[robyn]

Here is the finished product of a roast I made a while ago, roasting at 300 degrees convection heat, no searing before hand.

http://images.egullet.com/u6080/i1639.jpg]Prime Rib

Ok, I keep trying to make it smaller!

This is a mighty attractive looking piece of meat .

But now you have me worried. Not only will I have to figure out how to cook the thing - I'll have to figure out the best way to take pictures and upload them too.

I've never uploaded a picture here. I suspect that if you want to make the pictures smaller - you might try using a smaller number of pixels setting on your camera (e.g., if you take pictures for Ebay - you don't want the highest resolution -- you want the middle resolution). Robyn

[budrichard]

I will try to respond to questions in a two part Post.

First. My expereince with large gatherings is that there are always individuals that do not prefer rare. As we always cook a full standing rib, the ends always satisfy this group unless we run out!

As to at which end of the cooking it is needed to brown. At the begining you are trying to get heat into the interior and obtain a crust before long term heating. My experience with professional chef's reccamandations is that they always brown at the beginning. since i have never reversed the process, I don't have comparative data, but what Pepin says works for me and he has alot more experience than I. -Dick

[budrichard]

If you follow the method I outlined from Pepin you avoid all the problesm you found with your roast.

The outside will be browned, salty with great taste.

The ends will have well and medium slices and most of the interior will be the rare where the charachter of the meat has changed from raw to cooked and pink. This is for a whole roast.

You will not have to cook two roasts.

You will not have to add time at high heat at the end which is the worst time to brown the roast.

I am not trying to flame, believe me, but I have a difficult time consolidating your statement "We were really happy with the results" with your "for good or bad" statement? Also your picture looks like a very underdone rib roast.

After hearing and viewing your results my initial opinion of reading the Cook's article in confirmed. They wasted a lot of time and effort and probably screwed up a lot of roasts for people who followed thier method when tried and tested methods of cooking a rib roast have been around for years.-Dick

You said in your original message that the exact times and temps were meaningless since our ovens might be different. Could you give me a clue - pretty please ?

The initial browning ("sear") on high heat - are you talking 300-400-500 degrees? Bake or broil?

The lower temp cooking - is it 150-250-350?

Then there's the final "warming" at 200 or less.

Also - 100F - even for rare - sounds very low. Did you really mean 100F?

By the way - if you or anyone else has an opinion - is there any advantage doing the "sear" before the cooking - as in Pepin's method - as opposed to doing the "sear" after the cooking - as in Alton Brown's method. Robyn

What i have been trying to point out in some of my posts is that understanding why things are done is more important than specifics because then you can make judgements or alterations for differences like ovens. Our Viking convection oven will crisp on the lower levels above 400F faster than you can think. your oven may behave complelety different.

As for temps. Pepin from the 'Art of Cooking' vol 1, page 217

'Rib roast Claire and Yorkshire Pudding'

The recipe starts with the picture of a rib roast primal cut an shows how to cut off the outer fat and chine bone along with sectioing the roast for smaller gatherings, all in clear color pictures.

Note: Nowhere does he refer to a'Prime' Rib Roast but always 'Standing' Rib roast.

Place in a pre-heated 425F oven for 30 minutes.

Reduce the heat to 375F and cook for one hour longer.

At this point the internal temp won't be much more than 75F.

Turn the oven off and let the roast continue to cook for at least 45 minutes to one hour in the oven.

The roast is now cooked, baste with the fat, remove to a plate and keep warm in the oven.

I have found that I need my oven to make additional items and that the full rib roast takes up most of the space, so I cooked mine to 100F internally, removed from the oven and tented with foil. Knowing that the objective was that the roast rest at low temp, since i was not in the oven, I increased from 75 to 100F and it works for me.

I really enjoy this series of posts since for me cooking a 'Standing Rib' is serious business!

Additional note. My daughter is having XMAS dinner this year. I am purchasing the roast for her and will bring it over the night before. I will give her instrcutions for the process(she has BS and Ms degrees in Chemistry so i know she can follow them) and we will see how the process works in a different oven.

Good luck on Xmas everyone!(I sound like tiny Tim!)-Dick

Edited December 19, 2003 by budrichard (log)