Help with tomato pie

[pmathus]

Hey folks,

I had this pie at a tea house in Salisbury CT called Chaiwalla Tea House, where it is incredible. Some internet research snagged me the recipe, which is apparently an old one and has been published by Gourmet, James Beard, Martha, and innumerable others. First the recipe, then my questions:

Chaiwalla's Famous Tomato Pie

2 cups unsifted all-purpose flour

4 teaspoons baking powder

1 teaspoon salt

1/2 cup (1 stick) butter

Approximately 2/3 cup milk

1 1/2 pounds ripe Italian tomatoes, peeled and sliced

2 tablespoons torn basil leaves

1 tablespoon chopped chives

1 1/2 cups grated sharp Cheddar cheese

1/3 cup mayonnaise

2 tablespoons lemon juice

1) Preheat oven to 400 degrees F. Lightly grease a 9" pie pan.

2) To make the biscuit crust, place flour, baking powder and salt in bowl and cut in butter until mixture becomes coarse. Add enough milk to make dough medium-soft.

3) Place about half of dough onto floured board and roll to fit pie pan. Cover dough with tomato slices. Sprinkle basil and chives over tomatoes. Top with half of cheese. Cut mayo with lemon juice, and coat thinly with mayo/lemon mixture. Add remaining cheese. Roll remaining dough thinly enough to fit over top of pie and pinch closed.

4) Bake until brown on top, about 20 minutes.

Questions:

The pie came out great, except for the crust itself. This was my first time making a pie crust and I had some trouble.

1) how do you "cut" a whole stick of butter into a pile of flour? I sliced it up into tiny cubes and just mashed it around in there until it seemed to have been incorporated, but it seems really clumsy.

2) The dough was hard to move into the pie pan. It seemed to tear really easily. Do i need to knead it for a while? let it sit before rolling it out? It just didn't have much cohesion.

3) Once cooked for 20 min, the dough was kind of soft and chewy. not crisp and flaky. the crusts were kind of gross, and neither I or my wife ate them. Should I have baked it longer? It was sort of a pale beige on top. I felt like maybe it needed longer, but I wanted to follow the directions verbatim the first time.

thanks for your advice,

paul

btw: I used canned whole tomatoes, which come pre-peeled and they worked fine.

[SethG]

That sounds tasty, pmathus.

You can cut the butter into several slices before you incorporate it.

There are devices called pastry cutters designed to incorporate butter into flour. But you can also use two knives, or two forks, or the tips of your fingers, or a food processor, so long as you know what you're going for. And what you're going for is the texture of coarse meal. You dont want the butter completely incorporated. "Mashing" is to be avoided. You want to leave bits of butter surrounded by flour. When this is cooked, it results in flakiness. I'm sure some other poster will describe why with greater scientific accuracy.

Good luck with the next pie! I may try yours. Was it really good with canned tomatoes? I made a million tomato tarts this past summer, and I miss them.

Edit: and welcome to eGullet, by the way!

Edited December 8, 2003 by SethG (log)

[hjshorter]

This recipe is also in Laurie Colwin's Home Cooking. I haven't made it in a couple of years. It does benefit from a longer bake time - more like 25-30 minutes. It should be golden brown on top for best flavor. Since it is a biscuit crust and not pie dough it will have a different consistency, softer and not flaky. I find it's actually better with canned tomatoes, only because I hate to cook with perfectly ripe fresh tomatoes. It's also good with fresh thyme instead of fresh basil.

Thanks for the reminder. I may make it this week.

[elyse]

Your crust might benefit from baking in a glass dish like Pyrex as it browns the bottom better than metal will. But like Heather said, you're doing a biscuit thing, not a standard crust. Try it with a standard crust? You can roll it out on plastic wrap to transfer if it's a problem for you. I use my plastic wrap over and over too so it cuts down on the waste.

[SethG]

This recipe is also in Laurie Colwin's Home Cooking.

Really! I was just rereading some of my copy last night, and I missed it.

Um, aren't biscuits supposed to be flaky? I've never made a biscuit crust, but I picture lots of flakiness.

Edited repeatedly because I'm a moron.

Edited December 8, 2003 by SethG (log)

[hjshorter]

This recipe is also in Laurie Colwin's Home Cooking.

Really! I was just rereading some of my copy last night, and I missed it.

Um, aren't biscuits supposed to be flaky?

Not in the same way as pie crust - much less crispy.

Maybe it's in More Home Cooking?

[elyse]

Plus. it's weighted down by a lot of wet ingredients.

[Mayhaw Man]

Did you bake the crust at all before adding tomatoes and basil? Seems like you would need to do this in a wet pie (and I love this pie, make it alot in the summer with garden stuff)?

[Squeat Mungry]

When I make a crust, especially a biscuity-type crust, for something that is fairly wet, I like to blind bake it at least partially. This helps crisp it up a bit before the filling goes in, and helps keep the filling from sogging out the crust. Of course this creates logistical problems with a double-crust pie, but sometimes I will do a lattice-type top separately over an inverted pie-tin, and then fit it on the pie for the final bake.

I also find it helps if all ingredients are kept as cold as possible and handled as little as possible. (It also tends to tear less if it is cold.) I like to stick the dough in the freezer for 15 minutes before the blind bake, as it seems to help with the flakiness/crispiness/tenderness of the crust.

Cheers,

Squeat

[hjshorter]

Did you bake the crust at all before adding tomatoes and basil?

I haven't blind baked, because it's a double crust. The bottom resembles a steamed dumpling in texture, which hasn't bothered us. Plus, if it's baked enough then sogginess isn't a factor.

[pmathus]

I'm not so concerned with it getting soggy on the bottom as I am with the top and the crust being more edible and less cakey. I think I should have just baked it for longer. I also read something about letting it sit for 15 minutes before rolling it out, i may try that. The saran wrap is a good idea too.

[stevea]

Concerning soggy crust (which some may not care about), Cooks Illustrated had an article about tomato tarts a few issues ago (don't have them handy now). They recommended baking the crust first and sprinkling some parmesan on the crust while baking to create essentially a moisture barrier. We used that to great success. I had a leftover piece that had been in the refrigerator for five days and the crust was flakey and not at all soggy.

[SethG]

The recipe is in More Home Cooking, which is funny (at least to me), because I just finished reading it and have no recollection of that chapter at all.

I'm thinking about making this tart tomorrow evening. Since I've already put my foot in my mouth regarding biscuit crusts, I'll go ahead and ask an ignorant question:

If I make the crust this evening, then make a disc (or two discs) and put it in the fridge overnight, will it work out okay? This is standard practice with a regular pate brisee crust, but will it work with the biscuit?

[hjshorter]

It should be fine, but I find biscuit dough to be better when baked the same day.

[SethG]

Thanks, maybe I'll do it another time.

[SethG]

I made this pie tonight, and it was really really good. I didn't blind bake. But I did let the dough refrigerate in two saran-wrapped discs for an hour. And I drained the canned tomatoes well, then sliced them and drained the slices for a while too.

Both the top and bottom crusts were exceptionally biscuity (and I would say a little wee bit flaky). No sogginess. And I owe it all to you.

[elyse]

I'm jealous. Glad it worked out for you!

[hjshorter]

Sounds delicious. I may have to make it for Christmas brunch.