"The Eater's Guide to Chinese Characters": Chinese Food & Eating Translations

[mudbug]

Thanks Ben,

There are several varieties of Amaranth that are used for "edible amaranth" which is just a common name. Just as there are multiple varieties of lettuce.

Here are the botanical names of some of the specific varieties of amaranth used as a vegetable:

Amaranthus dubius

Amaranthus hybridus

Amaranthus cruentus

[Seitch]

You can try this vegetable and see if you like it but the flavor turns me off. I'd describe it as herby and dirt like. A particularly noxious way of enjoying the flavor is to let the plant grow tall and woody and then digging up the roots to use in soup. All supposed to be very good for you but very bad tasting to me.

[His Nibs]

Hmm... quick stir fry with lots of garlic and minced pork. Man.. i can eat this veggie all the time.

It's also good in making a quick soup. Boil up some water with ginger slices and about 20-30 dried anchovies (or use a knorr anchovy cube). Add the veggies and dish up when the veggies are done.

[Kent Wang]

It is inherently difficult to translate foreign words into Chinese. A common strategy is to phoneticize the term into similar-sounding Chinese tones and then select a positive or related character that matches that tone. For example, England is translated as ying guo which sounds similar to the first syllable 'En'. The character that's chosen for ying is the character for heroic, so England is translated as heroic country, and France as fa guo (lawful country) -- not necessarily that we attribute those characteristics to those countries but that is a matter of coincidence in the phoneticization process.

My mother told me about some interesting translations, of which I can only remember one at the moment. Once a recent immigrant from Guangdong asked her where to purchase she guo (she can be sweet or snake). Having no idea, she asked the woman to describe it. The woman explained that it is a contraction of the full name di li she guo, which after some thought my mother recognized as a phoneticization of 'delicious', as in red delicious apple!

This is particularly confusing as apples are common in China and we simply call them ping guo. To give a cultivar a name like she guo suggests that it is another species of fruit entirely!

My mother also commented that the translations devised by the Cantonese are particularly outrageous, much less practical or logical as the Mandarin ones.

[CFT]

My mother told me about some interesting translations, of which I can only remember one at the moment. Once a recent immigrant from Guangdong asked her where to purchase she guo (she can be sweet or snake). Having no idea, she asked the woman to describe it. The woman explained that it is a contraction of the full name di li she guo, which after some thought my mother recognized as a phoneticization of 'delicious', as in red delicious apple!

This is particularly confusing as apples are common in China and we simply call them ping guo. To give a cultivar a name like she guo suggests that it is another species of fruit entirely!

Yep the American Red Delicious is called the "she guo" or "sair gwor" in Cantonese - literally snake fruit. I didn't know where this post was going until you talked about the apple. We Cantonese also call apples "ping gwor" but if you need to differentiate between different varieties then any translation or transliteration has its shortcomings.

By the way, the choice of Chinese characters in the transliteration of the country names is no coincidence. First you determine the component sounds and then you look for "flattering" character combinations, or just keep it purely phonetic like "Yee Lai Huk" (Canto) for Iraq.

[hzrt8w]

Here is an interesting Chinese (only Cantonese perhaps) translation of cakes that are originated from Malaysia: Ma Lai Gou [Cantonese] (馬拉糕).

If you translate it word for word, it means "a horse pulling a cake".

It looks strange at first. I believe the name came from the country name translation of Malaysia, which in Cantonese is Ma Loi Si Ah (馬來西亞). And in short, we just say Ma Loi (馬來). It could be that the cake is called Ma Loi Gou (馬來糕). And in Cantonese, we just say Ma Lai Gou (馬拉糕). (It could also be that the sound "Lai" comes from the Mandarin pronounciation of 來.)

[sheetz]

That reminds me of the Chinese version of rice crispy treats, Sai Keh Mah (Cantonese), made of fried pieces of dough mixed with syrup and pressed together into a block. How does one translate that? Riding a horse to the West?

[Tepee]

Instead of sai keh mah, we call it saat keh mah. All my siblings and relatives know it by Kill Ride Horse. Must be another Msian transliteration gone awry.

[CFT]

We've always called them "maa jai" (little horses).

From a Cantonese viewpoint, "ma lai" would be a closer phonetic transliteration in my opinion, but then I don't know what language it (Malaya/Malaysia) was transliterated from.

On the same theme, sometimes the Chinese (Cantonese) transliteration is more accurate - i.e. it reflects local usage. I always wondered why the city of Bombay in India was called "Maan Maai" in Cantonese; when the Indians changed it back to Mumbai recently it all became clear.

The country of Greece is known in Cantonese as "Hei Lip"/"Hei Lap"; again difficult to see how the Canto was derived until you realise that the Greeks call their country "Hellas".

Edited November 24, 2006 by CFT (log)

[hzrt8w]

Often, foreigh food items found their ways into the Chinese culture and there are no equivalent Chinese words to translate them to. Cantonese created many of the new terms, mostly via translating by sound. For example:

Creme: 忌廉 gay leem [Cantonese] (Literal meaning: avoid cheap?)

Pancake: 班戟 ban gig [Cantonese] (Literal meaning: class, weapon?)

Pizza: 比薩 bay sa [Cantonese] (Literal meaning: compare, god?)

And there are translations that are half based on meaning and half based on sound. For example, Tart is usually translated as 撻 taat [Cantonese]. Two varieties of tarts commonly found in Hong Kong:

Egg Tart: 蛋撻 dan taat [Cantonese]

Coconut Tart: 椰撻 yeah taat [Cantonese]

There are translations done strictly by meaning, but using words that don't correspond directly (and I have no idea how they became what they are). For example:

Icecream: 雪糕 shuet gou [Cantonese]. If you look at the words literally, it means Snow Cake. How did that correspond to Ice Cream? That Snow and Ice are the same? That Cream and Cake are the same?

Words just find their ways into the general culture and become accepted over time. And I am sure Cantonese is not the only language that has such phenomenons.

[hzrt8w]

Found this interesting web page on "foreign" Chinese words. Only a few are food items:

http://www.chinese-tools.com/characters/foreign-words.html

[Tepee]

When someone gets the boot at work, do you guys say, chau yau yue(cantonese) (fry cuttlefish?). I wonder how that came to be? Both stinks?

Kent and Chee Fai....now let's see you google this.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Tepee (log)

[CFT]

When someone gets the boot at work, do you guys say, chau yau yue(cantonese) (fry cuttlefish?). I wonder how that came to be? Both stinks?

Kent and Chee Fai....now let's see you google this.

Elementary my dear Tepee.

http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/re...61921#msg-61921

"At least four or five Chinese books on Cantonese etymology give the following explanation on the origin of 炒魷魚 'to give/receive the bucket’.

In the 1950s and 60s, shop assistants in Hong Kong usually lived in the rear portion of the shop where they had to bring along their own straw mat to sleep on at night. If they were fired by their boss, they would have to take away their mat which, being made of straw, could be readily rolled up. And this rolled-up mat, some of them had cross-shaped design, looked very much like a piece of freshly-fried squid which rolls up as a result of the cross-shaped cuts made on its back."

Another variation is "se jiu chau yau" (stir fried squid with black bean sauce), but I bet it tastes just as bad a plain chau yau yue.

Edited December 6, 2006 by CFT (log)

[Ben Hong]

Amazing that you have the phrase chau yau yue in Msia too TP. For the same indignity of getting fired, we old loh wah kieu also use sik joh pork chop, lah or in Toysanese, hek goh pok chop, loh interchangeably.

Apparently pork chops were a more expensive item in the Chinese-Canadian restaurants. One brash cook was summarily fired after eating one without permission.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Ben Hong (log)

[rxrfrx]

In HK I ate jade melon (yook gwaa, 玉瓜) in a lot of dishes. Sliced and stir-fried, it's got a pale green side and is white inside. It's like a very firm courgette (zucchini). What's the proper English name for this, and where can I buy it in the Boston area? "Jade melon" is just a literal translation and I can't find any use of this in English. I have no idea what the whole vegetable looks like.

Edited January 8, 2007 by rxrfrx (log)

[XiaoLing]

I have never heard of a Jade melon but based off of your description, I can rule out the Chinese Okra because after you cook it, it's not as firm.

However, the vegetable you might be inquiring about is the Chinese Fuzzy Melon (it comes in a smooth skin variety as well.) It's actually very firm when you cook it and a pale green skin with white on the inside.

Here's a picture:

Edited January 8, 2007 by XiaoLing (log)

[XiaoLing]

Oh and you can buy this melon in Boston Chinese markets.

I always see them in the market behind East Ocean City in Chinatown. Or you can try any of the Super 88. Ming's Market has them too.

[rxrfrx]

I have never heard of a Jade melon but based off of your description, I can rule out the Chinese Okra because after you cook it, it's not as firm. 

However, the vegetable you might be inquiring about is the Chinese Fuzzy Melon (it comes in a smooth skin variety as well.)  It's actually very firm when you cook it and a pale green skin with white on the inside.

Yup, not chinese okra/loofah. That's "silk melon" in Chinese.

Maybe I'm being dumb... I have bought and cooked fuzzy melon before. After peeling it and scraping the seeds, I stewed it with some meat until it was very soft and translucent. Could this be the same vegetable, just less cooked?

[XiaoLing]

Yup...if you flash stir fry it, you will get a much firmer crunchier texture.

Try the smooth variety next time and see if that's the veggie you're talking about. Stir fry it with lots of garlic and some salt and pepper to taste. I sometimes throw in a few dried shrimps to give it a more luxurious flavor.

[Dejah]

To xiaoLing's suggestion of rehydrated dried shrimp, add some pre-soaked mung bean noodles and soy sauce. I think Ah Leung has a pictorial on that.

You can also stuff these melons with seasoned ground pork - with or without finely chopped shrimp, then braised.

Or, make a soup with chunks of melon and pork. I have also used this as a substitute when wintermelon is not available. I have a "hoard" of eight jeet gwa in my cool basement from the Chinese gardeners in my city. Boy! Do they baby their melon vines - to my benefit.

[XiaoLing]

Dejah's post reminded me of how my friend cooks this melon.

My Philipino friend loves to stir fry this melon with ground chicken or pork and mung bean noodles with some soy sauce and fish sauce.

[hzrt8w]

I don't think 玉瓜 is fuzzy melon. I did some Google search on this term (in Chinese) and there were many references to it.

Excerpt from:

http://www.foodmate.net/tech/jiagong/jiagong10/3198.html

玉瓜，其实就是我国各地常见的酱腌菜瓜。山西省临猗县临晋镇所产的玉瓜，体净质脆，细嫩如玉，在清代时上贡皇宫，深受皇帝赞颂，以后人们便敬称为“临晋玉瓜”。

临晋玉瓜早在1915年就荣获过巴拿马赛会银牌奖，1981年又荣获山西省人民政府优质产品奖。近几年来所产玉瓜畅销世界各国，尤其在日本、朝鲜、印度、越南等国以及港澳市场，深受好评。外宾把临晋玉瓜当作珍贵食品，历来为广交会上一朵光彩夺目的奇葩。群众赞美说：“一碟玉瓜四邻香，酱菜类中添彩光，世人能吃玉瓜菜，不枉人间走一趟”。经过品尝鉴定，临晋玉瓜确实能与陕西潼关酱笋媲美。

There was only one webpage that contains a photo:

http://www.cnca.org.cn/include/content5.asp?thing_id=11232

The melon looks like a winter melon. If this webpage is correct, then it is definitely not the same species as the fuzzy melon.

Beats me as to what the English name is.

[XiaoLing]

Oooo...that's a new vegetable...

Never saw this one in the US markets. Wonder if they will have it in NYC? I know I have never seen it in Boston.

Wonder if it taste like a fuzzy melon?

[hzrt8w]

Here is another webpage that contains a picture:

http://www.5iny.com/htmlnews/2005-1/20050110123910423.htm

The page said the alias for this melon (winter squash) is 玉瓜. Not sure if they are correct either.

I found many different pictures and many different webpages but did not find any confirmation.

The squash/melon families seem to be very confusing, with many names and varieties.

[rxrfrx]

Thanks for the detective work so far! To help in the investigation, here are two pictures I took of jade melon, sliced and stir-fried:

Jade melon photos in my Picasa gallery