Knife-a-Holic

AzRaeL · November 22, 2003

I love cooking too, don't get me wrong but what really tickles my fancy is knife collecting.

ha ha!

I'm new here as you can see and I'm so pleased to have found a forum for Kitchen Knife Collectors like myself.

Most other forums are for those silly Fantasy Knives that look pretty but are as much a danger to the person holding it as it is to whatever it was supposed to cut in the first place.

Nobody else understands me. They can't understand why I have this need to spend a Hundred if not Hundreds on a Single Knife when to them a Ginsu (bleagh!) will do just fine.

I've collected Utility Knives and Kitchen knives but I'm new to this and don't own as many exotics as some of you folks.

My 3 most used knives are my

Henckels Professional S 6" Santoku (gawd! i love that Knife)

Wüsthof Silverpoint 3" paring knife (yup it's a Cheapie Stamped Blade but it's quite awesome actually)

10cm Global Utility Knife (can't quite understand the hype, sure it's sharp but i dont think it's any sharper than my other 2 knives out of the box)

I'm looking to get a new paring knife (sure my Wüsthof works perfectly but i want something Prettier than a Silverpoint).

2 main choices -

Wüsthof 3inch paring knife - Grand Prix (or Classic)

Kasumi 3inch paring knife (pretttttttty!!!!)

so the choice boils down to the cheaper technically perfect german blade or the really pretty Kasumi. Which do you folks advice?

budrichard · November 22, 2003

As a kitchen knife user and collector that has been known to spend obscene amounts of money on kitchen knives, I can unequivocally tell you I have standardised on Wustof because of two main reasons. The first reason is that I believe your knives should feel and cut the same to allow safety in going between knives. I have custom carvers that I won't let anyone else use because they are so much sharper than commercial knives. The second reason is that Wustof makes the largest selection of knives and kitchen aids in the world. You have to obtain the full set of Wustof catalogs to view all the differnt permutations of the same knife type.

"Most other forums are for those silly Fantasy Knives that look pretty but are as much a danger to the person holding it as it is to whatever it was supposed to cut in the first place."

Many of the individuals that inhabit those forums including me are very knowledgable when it comes to knives and kitchen knives in particular.

-Dick

Suzanne F · November 22, 2003

Welcome AzRael, if no one else already has said it. :biggrin:

For your choice of paring knife, go with what feels best to your hand. That is what I would advise for absolutely ANY knife. And if you can't check out the feel of a knife, go with the one you can test that feels best to you. This is especially true with a paring knife, which you will use constantly. Comfort of use is paramount.

To give you an idea: I love Messermeister chef knives, without any bolts through the handles. I like Sanelli slicers, Granton edges, Forschner bread knives, KitchenAid boning and paring knives , Furi paring knives, etc., etc. No single company makes the best of all knives. So if you've got the cash or credit to play, hey, go ahead! :wink:

So: what do you like to cook? What/where do you like to eat?

Edited November 22, 2003 by Suzanne F (log)

ExtraMSG · November 22, 2003

Welcome. I think you'll find there are a lot of people enthusiastic about their knives here.

I'm one of those that likes to buy separately based on whatever I like for the job. I have a Henkels paring knife (4 star) which I liked because of the apparent thinness of the blade which seemed better for peeling purposes and I liked how it felt in my hand for such duties. I have Wustoff's Santuko which is very light and can be good for quick chopping and such, though I love it for things like potatoes because it actually pulls away. I have a global flexible boning knife. I don't know that they're truly any sharper, but I love the balance and light feel for a boning knife. And when it's covered in raw chicken juices, I know I can get it clean.

I don't have any specific recommendation except to say pick whichever feels best and looks like it will do the job better.

CRUZMISL · November 22, 2003

I have had the Henckels Pro S before, the full series of all the different knives in the block. It looked really nice but never really used them all. I have since sold those and invested a handsome sum in these Hattori's from Japan. I now only use 3 knives. They are rockwell hardened to 60-62 and are made of a core of VG 10 layered with stainless steel which gives it the beautiful damascus look. They also have a western style handle. I don't particularly care for the Japanese style handles. As far as performance these knives are beyond reproach. They'll leave any of the top German manufacturrs in the dust. They literally cut like a laser. I'd definitely suggest looking into these but I only found 1 importer in the US. Here are some pics below.

Joe

robyn · November 23, 2003

I love cooking too, don't get me wrong but what really tickles my fancy is knife collecting.
ha ha!
I'm new here as you can see and I'm so pleased to have found a forum for Kitchen Knife Collectors like myself.
Most other forums are for those silly Fantasy Knives that look pretty but are as much a danger to the person holding it as it is to whatever it was supposed to cut in the first place.
Nobody else understands me. They can't understand why I have this need to spend a Hundred if not Hundreds on a Single Knife when to them a Ginsu (bleagh!) will do just fine.
I've collected Utility Knives and Kitchen knives but I'm new to this and don't own as many exotics as some of you folks.
My 3 most used knives are my
Henckels Professional S 6" Santoku (gawd! i love that Knife)
Wüsthof Silverpoint 3" paring knife (yup it's a Cheapie Stamped Blade but it's quite awesome actually)
10cm Global Utility Knife (can't quite understand the hype, sure it's sharp but i dont think it's any sharper than my other 2 knives out of the box)
I'm looking to get a new paring knife (sure my Wüsthof works perfectly but i want something Prettier than a Silverpoint).
2 main choices -
Wüsthof 3inch paring knife - Grand Prix (or Classic)
Kasumi 3inch paring knife (pretttttttty!!!!)
so the choice boils down to the cheaper technically perfect german blade or the really pretty Kasumi. Which do you folks advice?

Suzanne beat me to the punch - but I agree with her. The best knife is the one that feels best in your hand and does the job. I am a short person with very small hands. I like the Henckels 4 stars because they have small handles - but I like even better my really old Case knives (because their handles are even smaller). My husband has larger hands - and he likes different knives. So we have "his knives" - and "her knives". Based on the size of our hands - and what we each do in the kitchen. I bought my husband a Wusthof Santoku knife - and a Wusthof offset slicer - last year as presents - and he loves both of them.

By the way - the most important piece of advice I can give you about knives is get them sharpened professionally at least once in a while. We found a fellow who does knives for restaurants in his panel truck - and he comes around to our house about once a year to sharpen our knives. Robyn

AzRaeL · November 23, 2003

As a kitchen knife user and collector that has been known to spend obscene amounts of money on kitchen knives, I can unequivocally tell you I have standardised on Wustof because of two main reasons. The first reason is that I believe your knives should feel and cut the same to allow safety in going between knives. I have custom carvers that I won't let anyone else use because they are so much sharper than commercial knives. The second reason is that Wustof makes the largest selection of knives and kitchen aids in the world. You have to obtain the full set of Wustof catalogs to view all the differnt permutations of the same knife type.
"Most other forums are for those silly Fantasy Knives that look pretty but are as much a danger to the person holding it as it is to whatever it was supposed to cut in the first place."
Many of the individuals that inhabit those forums including me are very knowledgable when it comes to knives and kitchen knives in particular.
-Dick

Many of the individuals that inhabit those forums including me are very knowledgable when it comes to knives and kitchen knives in particular.

Sorry then, i was more or less kinda sore about being laughed out of a "Fantasy Knife" shop when i mentioned i collected Kitchen Knives. That shop carried mostly United Cultery and LightSabre replicas and Lords of the Ring swords.

I do however disagree about knives having to feel the same. A paring blade feels totally different from a Santoku or Chef's knife no matter that they're even from the same line of the same make.

As for safety, I've yet todate been cut by my own kitchen knives however, i have had multitudes of paper cuts and cuts from just about everything else.

AzRaeL · November 23, 2003

whoa! Gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!! DROOL!

Handsome sum eh?

maybe if i have some wonderful windfall.

I'll definitely get something like that someday but for now...sigh!

Question: How does Hattori compare to Kasumi?

I've heard somewhere that Kasumi is an inferior export quality brand. Is that True?

Question: How does one hold Japanese blades since they have no bolster in their chef knives.

SG- · November 23, 2003

Question: How does one hold Japanese blades since they have no bolster in their chef knives.

Never thought about it til you mentioned it, really it's not any different. The lack of bolster is not noticeable IMO.

CRUZMISL · November 23, 2003

The lack of a bolster is actually a plus. My Henckels were professionally hand sharpened but over time as you remove material the knife will develop a belly just before the bolster. This makes trying to chop something very annoying as the blade doesn't contact the board. You can't grind the bolster either because the blade is too thick at that point.

I never even notice it's gone and hold my knives the same.

Joe

rgruby · November 23, 2003

Hi,

I looked at the Kasumi (and asked about them here). They are extremely light - if you like the feel of a heavier knife, they likely won't be for you. they are extremely sharp and hard (Rockwell @ 60 if I recall), but the finishing of the handle wasn't great - not totally smooth with the blade through the handle, rivets not being totally flush, etc.)

Also, you can't use them to cut through bones, hack the knuckles off chicken legs etc. like you could with a heavy German number (although folks on this board also suggested you shouldn't use them either for that job), and you're not supposed to use them on frozen items either. I wonder if there are other things you shoudn't use them on - hard nuts maybe.

I don't know if these concerns/ limitations regarding Kasumi also apply to other similar in appearance (damascas) or other very hard Japanes knives like the Kershaw ones Alton Brown is pimping, or the handsome ones pictured in this thread (thanks Joe - they do look fantastic!).

So, the Kasumi might not be the most versatile knife around, but they do look pretty, and are very sharp (I'm guessing not the easiest to maintain / keep sharp though - can anyone enlighten on that aspect of high Rockwell hardness levels?), and are extremely light - which for me is a plus but will not be for others.

Cheers,

Geoff Ruby

AzRaeL · November 23, 2003

hahah!

i'd DEFINITELY not chop bones with a Kasumi

oh, anyone seen the Skärpt series from IKEA?

decent forged blades from China for pocket change.

I'm getting a Skärpt cleaver for heavy duty bashing.

Wont feel bad if it breaks, but it looks really good for what it costs.

ExtraMSG · November 23, 2003

Does the company that makes the "low" cost knives for Hattori make any other Damascus/layered knives, either for another company or under their own name, maybe cheaper since they don't have the Hattori name attached?

CRUZMISL · November 23, 2003

Does the company that makes the "low" cost knives for Hattori make any other Damascus/layered knives, either for another company or under their own name, maybe cheaper since they don't have the Hattori name attached?

That's a really good question. The steel looks very similar to the Kershaw's and a few other knives but I like the western handle which is why I didn't choose them. Frankly I think they all order the blanks, plop their own handle and name on them and call it a day, although some of the blades look the same in appearance but not in design. Who knows.

For example this picture is of the 10" Kershaw Shun. The steel looks the same but the belly of the blade looks different. Compare it to the picture of my Hattori. Does it look the same to you? Also the Kershaw's are made with 16 layers of stainless stell whereas the Hattori's claim 63 layers. :wacko: :wacko:

My 4 inch paring knife doesn't match the blade shape either.

The closest match is the Santoku but I still don't think it's the same....

I asked that same question about the similarity and this is the answer I got.

"Kershaw (Kai Shun) damascus culinary knives are being made by other maker named Ohno in Seki. They use same damascus steel, but mass producing (about10,000 pieces per month) for export

whatever that means.

Joe

Edited November 23, 2003 by CRUZMISL (log)

budrichard · November 23, 2003

"I do however disagree about knives having to feel the same. A paring blade feels totally different from a Santoku or Chef's knife no matter that they're even from the same line of the same make.

As for safety, I've yet todate been cut by my own kitchen knives however, i have had multitudes of paper cuts and cuts from just about everything else."

It was not the blade shape that I was indicating but the handle feel and the way the blade cuts. The ease of cutting can be directly related to the percieved effort to cut . Going from a custom blade made from esoteric really hard steel to a high carbon steel is difficult. I like to have a uniform feel in the kitchen because I use many knives in the course of food prep. I have about 20 Wustof blades ranging from small pairing to a 13" 'BoneSplitter'.

Sooner or later you will be cut. The severity will depend on the force employed at the time and the blade steel. The sharpest blades I have are from Bob Dozier. It took less than 24 hours for the first knife I obtained from bob to 'bite' me. As Bob says "If they bite you, they generally go all the way to the bone" which it almost did. http://www.dozierknives.com I don't believe that Bob lists any kitchen blades on his web site but will make them to order. Call and talk to Linda(wife).

One last thing about knife safety. with the knives of today, the practise of food prep while drinking can lead to accidents. -Dick

Edited November 23, 2003 by budrichard (log)

SG- · November 23, 2003

For example this picture is of the 10" Kershaw Shun. The steel looks the same but the belly of the blade looks different. Compare it to the picture of my Hattori. Does it look the same to you? Also the Kershaw's are made with 16 layers of stainless stell whereas the Hattori's claim 63 layers.

The damascus flowering on the Kershaw's are noticeably inferior compared to high end japanese knives. Almost like a faux finish, not particularly impressed by them.

Most Japanese chef knives are "gyutou" which tend to be thinner than their german counterparts and limits their versatility as a primary knife. A more practical alternative is the "yo-deba" style, thicker and heftier and able to chop through chicken bones.

http://www.japanese-knife.com/faq/

CRUZMISL · November 23, 2003

Here is a picture of a true Hattori Damascus that is hand made in Japan. WHile it is definitely nicer than my "low end " Hattori's I'm not sure it justifies the $1250 price tag for a 9.5" Chef's knife :wacko:

SG- · November 23, 2003

Here is another specimen from Bob Kramer

Chad · November 23, 2003

The sharpest blades I have are from Bob Dozier. It took less than 24 hours for the first knife I obtained from bob to 'bite' me. As Bob says "If they bite you, they generally go all the way to the bone" which it almost did. http://www.dozierknives.com I don't believe that Bob lists any kitchen blades on his web site but will make them to order. Call and talk to Linda(wife).

Man, if Bob Dozier started making kitchen knives we'd all be lined up around the corner. The man is a genius. And his knives are some of the sharpest I've ever seen. One drawback, though. Bob works his wonders with D2 steel, which ain't great in the kitchen. I've had a D2 kitchen knife; the steel isn't quite stainless enough (12% chromium) to keep from developing a patina. And D2 is much harder than the average knife user is accustomed to, making sharpening a real bear.

Chad

AzRaeL · November 23, 2003

One last thing about knife safety. with the knives of today, the practise of food prep while drinking can lead to accidents. -Dick

If you Drink, Don't Dice.

AzRaeL · November 23, 2003

I wonder why Asian knives don't have Bolsters (full bolsters that is)

Are they meant to be held differently?

AzRaeL · November 23, 2003

Here is a picture of a true Hattori Damascus that is hand made in Japan. WHile it is definitely nicer than my "low end " Hattori's I'm not sure it justifies the $1250 price tag for a 9.5" Chef's knife

omigosh! that is soooo beautiful.

you guys are totally hardcore :)

i'm gonna buy that knife someday.

WHOA

CRUZMISL · November 23, 2003

I was actually considering buying that knife. Then I had visualized my mother in law coming over and cutting pieces of pie on a glass plate. I then visualized divorce papers so I went with the cheapies. Although if you can call $250 for a chef's knife cheap you are doing better than me :)

Joe

AzRaeL · November 23, 2003

I was actually considering buying that knife. Then I had visualized my mother in law coming over and cutting pieces of pie on a glass plate. I then visualized divorce papers so I went with the cheapies. Although if you can call $250 for a chef's knife cheap you are doing better than me :)
Joe

reminds me of this interesting question i had:

If almost every knife manufacturer recommends that you NEVER use your knives on a Ceramic or Glass cutting board, the why the HECK would any manufacturer make Ceramic/Stone/Glass cutting boards in the first place?

robyn · November 23, 2003

<<One last thing about knife safety. with the knives of today, the practise of food prep while drinking can lead to accidents. -Dick>>

Agreed - my husband combined some fancy knife work with a martini and cut off the tip of a finger. I bought a video from Henckels which does a good job of illustrating (safe) knife techniques. Also - if you're doing work with sharp knives on stuff that's slippery (like fish and chicken) - it might be a good idea to invest in one of those gloves that you can't cut through - the kind that butchers use. Robyn

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