Learning about wine?

[Freckles]

Good evening. I moved to Paris 6 months ago. Survived the heat-wave and apartment hunt; finally am ready to start enjoying the city. I know nothing -- NOTHING -- about wine and am interested in learning the basics. Bought some books but would rather take a class. Could any of you recommend a good, very basic, introductory wine course that I could take to master the elementary lessons? Many thanks. Freckles in the 17th.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Were I in your shoes, I would head to either "Tchin Tchin" or "La Derniere Goutte", both tremendously user-friendly wine shops where the affable merchants speak perfect English. Either of these shops should be able to point you toward such a class if it is available.

Tchin Tchin

9, rue Montorgueil

75001

La Derniere Goutte

6, rue de Bourbon Le Chateau

75006

More formal, but very helpful:

Legrand

1, rue de la Banque

75003

[Felice]

And the Derniere Goute has informal tastings through out the day on Saturdays and Sundays.

[pedro]

I don't know if they do the same in their Paris shop, but here in Spain, Lavinia offers you free of charge an introductory course to wine when you join their club, which is also free. Their address in Paris is:

Francia - París

3 - 5 Boulevard de la Madeleine Tel: 0033 142 972 020

[Busboy]

Why not supplement you classroom learning with an educational field trip? Paris has (I have read) a good number of excellent wine bars. You might consider buying a decent wine guide and hauling it to a good bar, ordering something and then looking up the wine as you drink. I, personally, found this an excellent and way to learn about wine, and I expect it would be a great supplement to a more structured course -- and possibly more fun. I don't know how your French or your potential bartenders' English is, but there are few people involved in the wine trade that don't love talking about it, you'd surely learn from them, and other customers, as well.

This link lists a few wine bars, also a place that offers courses, and the address of the Musee du Vins. There is some award (waiting for one of the resident Parisians to chime in -- Loufood?) given annually. Getting hold of that list is probably worth the effort.

Edited November 7, 2003 by Busboy (log)

[Louisa Chu]

Freckels, welcome to eGullet and Paris. Thanks Busboy for your confidence!

In Paris I took the wine course at Cordon Bleu. It's taught by Jean-Michel Deluc - who's known as a wine prodigy in the business - and as Le Nez - The Nose. As a bonus we also had available an amazing selection of cheeses and pain Poilane to have after class - so it's really more a wine and cheese course. There's a short Food and Wine Pairing class coming up this month - it's a good sampler of the full-blown three-part course.

And our unofficial off-campus cantine was Couleurs de Vigne - right around the corner from Cordon Bleu. It's a fairly new, beautiful little wine cafe/shop. The owner's a retired banker who decided to bring some of his country house life to the city. He's so cool - always totally patient with our rowdy crowds.

Some links:

Le Cordon Bleu Paris

Chateau Online - Jean-Michel's site

Couleurs de Vigne

2 rue Marmontel

Paris - 15th - Metro Vaugirard or Convention

01 45 33 32 96

[Freckles]

To all of you:

Thank you so much for your warm welcomes, useful tips and gentle encouragement. I am excited to venture into the realm of French wines, and appreciate your help in my endeavours. I'll get back to you once I begin my "in vino adventuris."

Please keep posting if you have any other thoughts, since I will continue to check this thread for ideas and information.

Bisous,

Freckles

[Freckles]

Update: I've signed up for the Cordon Bleu Introductory Wine Course, which will begin Wednesday the 14th of January. It's a total of 6 classes, one every wednesday night. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for your suggestions!

[Bux]

We'll be looking for your weekly report starting on January 15.

[Freckles]

Bon soir, mes amis. I am back... reporting on my first wine class!

It turns out that my course began yesterday (not the 15th as I had previously reported). It's wet and chilly here in Paris, and as the fates would have it, the central heating at the Cordon Bleu had broken down that morning. That was one bitterly cold classroom!

As I had anticipated, about 95% of the student were American, quite a few of whom were taking this as just one of many classes in a year-long course at the Cordon Bleu. There were 2 francais students, 1 asian and 1 colombian; if you're looking to meet locals, this isn't the place to do so.

Mr. Deluc is an engaging and interesting lecturer. Much to my surprise and, initially, my horror, he began speaking but paused after every single sentanc so a woman at his side could repeat what he had said, in English. At first, this was annoying as it was difficult to follow the train of thought and, of course, repetitve. However, I soon became used to this method and actually came to appreciate the fact that points which were hard to grasp were stated twice, albeit in different languages.

The first class outlined what we were to learn during the 6-class course, and then we dove into our first subject: pairing wines with food. The ideas were clearly stated but not simplistic and the final hour was spent trying 4 different wines and 4 different cheeses, then discussing what our preferred combinations ought to have been. I was wrong on all 4 of my choices! Oh well. Better luck next time...

Mr. Deluc was kind and gentle with us; not dismissive and cross the way many sommelier's can be when faced with wine novices hailing from The New World. I look forward to the next class.

In case you're curious -- and most of you probably are not -- he gave us the following wines and cheeses. Do you know which goes with which?

WINES Jura: Cotes de Jura/Arbois; Loire: Sancerre; Alsace:Gewurztraminer; Bourgogne:Givry

CHEESES Epoisses; Crottin de chavignol; Compte Fruite; Munster

Good night!

Freckles

[dlc]

In case you're curious -- and most of you probably are not -- he gave us the following wines and cheeses.  Do you know which goes with which?

WINES    Jura: Cotes de Jura/Arbois; Loire: Sancerre; Alsace:Gewurztraminer; Bourgogne:Givry

CHEESES    Epoisses; Crottin de chavignol; Compte Fruite; Munster

Good night!

Freckles

Gerwurztraminer--Munster; Givry--Epoisses; Sancerre--Compte Fruite: Arbois--Crottin. Not how I would have done it either but I bet this was his pick.. Matching wines and cheeses from the same region.

[Freckles]

Almost!

[Busboy]

In case you're curious -- and most of you probably are not -- he gave us the following wines and cheeses.  Do you know which goes with which?

WINES    Jura: Cotes de Jura/Arbois; Loire: Sancerre; Alsace:Gewurztraminer; Bourgogne:Givry

CHEESES     Epoisses; Crottin de chavignol; Compte Fruite; Munster

Good night!

Freckles

Gerwurztraminer--Munster; Givry--Epoisses; Sancerre--Compte Fruite: Arbois--Crottin. Not how I would have done it either but I bet this was his pick.. Matching wines and cheeses from the same region.

Gerwurztraminer--Munster; Givry--Epoisses; Sancerre--Crottin: Arbois--Compte Fruite. ?

[Bux]

Busboy, you've got them arranged by geography which according to all tradition means you're correct. Each of the wines and cheeses in your pairing, grew up with each other so to speak and one assumes the foods of any region have developed an affinity for each other. We can also assume the less party line expanation that people learned to associate certain foods with certain wines because that was what was locally available, but either way it makes some sense.

[Freckles]

Of course, our instructor explained (and his translator repeated, in English) that there are other combinations possible, but that this is a good, easy way for beginners to match food with wine. En francais it's called "Rapport Geographique"

[artisanbaker]

tgv to montelimar...

http://www.universite-du-vin.com/

visit nyons surronding villages in la drome for breathtaking beauty

Edited January 23, 2004 by artisanbaker (log)

[Louisa Chu]

Say hi to Jean-Michel and Madame Gallagher for me - is she still doing the translations? Threaten that I'll come by for a visit on Wednesday. Tip - take home the leftover cheese and bread. And really, check out Les Couleurs when you get a chance - talk French wine - in French - with the owner.

[Bux]

... there are other combinations possible, but that this is a good, easy way for beginners to match food with wine.

It is a good way to start and to develop a sense of what goes with what, and I don't mean to imply there are no standards at all when I say the combinations you enjoy are the ones you should make. For one thing the accepted combinations are ones that are enjoyed by many people. Any combination you like is valid for you, but it's often best to understand the commonly accepted pairings when you're seving others.

Once we get past the basics, it can get complicated quickly and pat asnwers such as white wine or red wine never get us very far. Often a first choice may be a certain white wine and the second choice may be a red wine rather than a different white wine. Beware of cliches. Although my French is not very good, I often buy copies of certain food and wine magazines when I'm in France. One of the types of articles I get a kick out of, are the ones that ask a panel of reputable food and wine people to select wine pairings for a menu. Rarely do we get a unanimous decision on any course and not infrequently we'll see some great disparity of opinion, but within that disparity, there are also some universals.

[Freckles]

Based on the Accord Territorial method, M. Deluc gave us the following combinations: Cotes du Jura/Arbois+Comte Fruite; Loire Sancerre + Crottin de Chavignol; Alsace Gewurztraminer + Munster; Bourgogne Givry + Epoisses.

[Freckles]

By the way, Lou, I think we would all love it if you were to drop by one Wednesday night to say hello... And perhaps you and I could stir some of my fellow class-mates to action and go en groupe to Couleurs afterwards!

[Louisa Chu]

So how was class? I would love to stop by but I can't - have to work - plus I was sick yesterday - and sometimes I suspect I'm not their favourite person. Les Couleurs - normally closed by the time your class ends - written up in Where magazine this month so try to get to it before they're overrun by the gastro-tourists.

[Freckles]

Oh, lou! I can't imagine that you're not everybody's favourite! You seem very charming... at least your posts do.

I can't find les Couleurs anywhere! I asked people at the Cordon Bleu; the teacher, another student who lives in the neighbourhood, the translator, the girl who works at the front desk, a chef-student I saw wandering the halls.... They all just gave me blank looks.

Does "Where" have a website? I'd love to see that article.

Thanks!

[Louisa Chu]

Les Couleurs is right around the corner - out the door - turn right - to the corner - turn right - at the address listed above.

Don't know about Where online - you can pick it up at some hotels - and it was just a blurb - not a article on Les Couleurs.

[Freckles]

Okay. Off to les Couleurs after class ce soir. I'm meeting with my darling boyfriend... hope some classmates will join me too, but if not -- at least Xavier and I will enjoy ourselves.

[Freckles]

Went to Couleurs after class on Wednesday night. The place was packed at 9:30; only one tiny table for 2 available for the 4 of us. No matter; it was cozy and delightful. People who lived in the neighbourhood -- old, young, yuppies, drunkards -- kept stopping in for a brief hellow and chat with the owner. And he --the owner -- is chatty, friendly and sweet. We tried a peppery bottle of wine called Clap or something like it. Needless to say, the word "Clap" wasn't written on the wine label... other anglo saxons with immature senses of humour like my friends and I would no doubt have too much enjoyment -- as we did! -- saying things like, "I've never had the Clap in Paris before!" or "I must tell my boyfriend that I got the Clap tonight" etc. Thanks for the great suggestion. Next week, I plan to expand my party of 4 to a party of 8!