Supermarket strike

[monkeymay]

Just wanted to bring this back up to the top.

How are people feeling, third week into the strike?

Crossed any picket lines yet?

I've been doing my shopping at TJ's, Jon's and the farmer's market, but these are places I regularly shop so it hasn't bothered me too much. But for things like paper/plastic/laundry/cleaning supplies I ended up at a Target Greatland and bought a whole bunch of other shit I probably didn't need. Much easier to buy at Ralphs or Von's but I won't cross a line. However, I have friends who are really struggling with this, living in places like Calabasas where the only place to shop is Ralphs. They've tried shopping at places like Gelson's and it's costing them twice as much for not as much, especially with full sized families to feed. Other people I know have taken to shopping at striking markets outside their neighborhood so they're not recognized by picketers. I'm finding it difficult to hold my tongue when I hear these stories, and yet at the same time, I understand my friends' plight. Now has been an especially tough time to live in SoCal, with all the strikes and of course the fires, which have disrupted many peoples lives. But when I drive by my local market and see strikers doggedly walking the line in the middle of the heat and smoke filled haze, I get really angry with my friends for their shortsightedness for the sake of convienence. Anyone else having issues?

[hillbill]

There was a small blurb in my local paper a few days ago that supermarket workers in some New York City area supermarkets are working "in good faith" without a contract but that there might be a strike at some point if they can't come to an agreement.

[hollywood]

Anyone else having issues?

The other night I was shopping at Ralphs. Suddenly, I started feeling guilty. Then I woke up. Whew! That was a close one. When I was awake I went to Mayfair.

[monkeymay]

Yeah, that's like me - I had a terrible dream about Arnold being Governor.

Then I woke up and realized I was living my nightmare.

I'm black and blue from pinching myself.

[hollywood]

Yeah, that's like me - I had a terrible dream about Arnold being Governor.

Then I woke up and realized I was living my nightmare.

[hollywood]

Then I woke up and realized I was living my nightmare.

http://www.2expand.com/clients/joysartinc/...uction/gq/b.jpg

[badthings]

Up here, workers at the Berkeley Bowl just voted against unionization.

[JFLinLA]

I was curious how our folks in the food industry were feeling the effects of the transit strike. Are service workers showing up? How are they getting there? What about customers in transit-oriented areas? Tourists in Hollywood for instance?

[chefsteban]

I have only crossed the picket lines once, to get some things I couldn't find elsewhere. I have taken to shopping at "mom & pop" types of grocery stores. In my area we are fortunate enough to have many small mexican grocery stores wher I can buy fresh produce, butcher shop style meats and dairy products--- and at considerable saveings over my Vons store. I have fallen into a pattern of shopping that I might just adopt even after the food chain strike is over........screw double coupons.

[NVNVGirl]

I must be the only person here who has little sympathy for health care insurance cuts. The cost of worker's compensation to employers is atronomical, driving a LOT of business OUT OF Business in California. Businesses that men and women who have put their heart and soul and entire life into. I'm not just talking about people who have started up businesses and made gazillions of dollars- I'm talking about people who have struggled from payday to payday trying to scrape together the money for payroll to maintain their employees jobs. People who genuinely CARE about the fact that their employees have a home and wife and children, with a mortgage to pay and college funds and day care to pay for. All the while trying to find the money for payables and keeping their business going. People who AGONIZE when they have to lay some workers off because they know that they need the job, but they've got to cut back somewhere in order to keep the business viable. People who have NOTHING other than their business because they've been too busy taking care of everyone else. People who stress out constantly, thinking of nothing else and damage their own health over just worrying about how to take care of everybody else. People who pay for their own health care. And health care benefits is the same thing. Employees don't seem to realize (and I myself was totally guilty of this when I was a hospital employee forever), that just because the company provides you with health care insurance, doesn't mean it's FREE to them. The business has to pay for every time you go to see the doctor or have a diagnostic test. And the health care premiums go up every time this happens also. You figure out the math if you've got a lot of employees with small children ,and some people seem to think that for every sniffle or scratch, a visit to the dr's office or emergency room is imperative, that it is a very costly thing to provide. And it's getting even more so. It's not like employer's don't WANT to give their employees as much as they can. But it's gotten so out of hand and so expensive that it's almost impossible. Many places like hospitals started hiring people per diem or part time; paying them a little more hourly but without benefits. It's getting harder and harder for people to find jobs period and ones that pay ANY benefits are almost impossible to find. There are so MANY people out of jobs that I think it's almost criminal that people are actually striking because of something that most people have to pay for themselves anyway. I admit I didnt' like it when the hospital started cutting our benefits, but I also have to admit that I had NO CLUE what the big picture was.

I don't like to see anyone lose what they've already got, but where will they be when the business goes under because of overwhelming costs and debt?

I respect everyone else's opinion to have their own opinion but this is mine and I have crossed the picket lines (infrequently as it's a huge hassle and it's simpler and less costly for me to buy at Trader Joe's and Costco, which we are fortunate enough to have here in town). I could go on and on, but I'll shut up now. Sorry if I offended people but I kept quiet as long as I could and I just had to say something.

[hollywood]

I must be the only person here who has little sympathy for health care insurance cuts. The cost of worker's compensation to employers is astronomical, driving a LOT of business OUT OF Business in California.

Your overall point about business being driven out of state (and out of country) is well taken. The health insurance issue is, however, separate from the workers comp problem, which is a situation out of control. Of course, if it's true that we could have some form of national health care cheaper than the hodge podge of programs we have now..... Or, if you want to look at the big, big picture, maybe Matt Miller is on to something (idealistic though it may be) with his 2% solution.

[JFLinLA]

Though the union pulled the picketers from Ralph's to focus on Vons and Pavilions, I have not gone back to my local Ralphs store (though with a family of 4 and full time job, 1-stop shopping is easier). The issue of rising health care (and worker's comp) costs effects us all as I said earlier in this thread. We all pay for it. My problem is that following the employee walk-out at Von's, Ralphs employees were locked-out by their management. The union pulled back this weekend but management retained its lock-out. If you want to work, you should be able to. If the union pulls back and management will let their employees come back to work, then I'll be back at Ralphs.

[lala]

This is a tough one. I understand both points of view. It's a tricky door to open, having employees pay a part of insurance. At least they have insurance - there are too many workers who don't. And they have jobs. There are many people who don't. Then there are the people with no job, or insurance.

Most people don't realize that it costs the employer about $200 per month per employee for employee's insurance premiums (get laid off and go Cobra to get a real shock!). I never remember what insurance plan I have, as we get a new one every year, as the prices keep going up, and my company scrambles to find something for us. What's even worse is looking at buying your own insurance. Now that's a nightmare! It's so bad, and so expensive, it's just not worth it unless you're Bill Gates!

This year, we were given the choice to have a cheaper plan for free (lesser bennies), or a slightly better plan than we currently had, and pay $25 per month out of pocket for the increase in premium (there's a higher deductible, too). I thought that was a good way to handle it, to give us the choice. I chose the better plan, which is about $500 more per year out of pocket than I paid on previous plans.

That's bad enough - it almost negated my very small raise for the year. But then, I'm single. The groans that went around the table from the folks who have families made me very sympathetic.

[cheftoad]

I too can see both sides of this. I work for a small independent restaurant and I see what it costs monthly to run the place. Senate bill 2, requiring employers to pay helath insurance for all workers and their families, passed recently and will more than likely kill our restaurant and many others if it is implemented. Not to mention soaring worker's comp rates and insurance in general.

However, I have little sympathy for the giant corporations. What's the matter - someone can't afford to move into a new mansion? Why not try a solution that doesn't take away from the benefits that the workers were already given?

[Daisy]

Obviously I am in the minority on this topic...I cannot garner sympathies for the employees having to get into their own pockets for health care..I have to pay $844.00 per month just for me.

I have a real problem for someone who has been getting free health care all this time objecting to have to contribute to their own healthcare. They make good salaries and the benefits as a whole are quite good. I think our groceries are expensive enough without having to pay more so that they can have healthcare cheaper. I am not calloused or unfeelilng, I just think it is about fairness.

Quite sometime ago I was in a disgussion about a law suit that a couple filed on their landlord, seems that the landlord had been giving them reduced rent for quite sometime the landlord felt that the couple needed help, after he got a better job and they were on their feet, the landlord told them that effective 60 days they would be paying the full rent..they sued,and won! They won because by giving them reduced rent it became like a contract and it was an expecxted amount to pay...and etc...........cannot recite the exact premise.

The issue with the grocery clerks is exactly the samething.

[Gary Soup]

Up here, workers at the Berkeley Bowl just voted against unionization.

As a Berkeleyan in the 60's and a Cal grad, I weep for Berkeley.

[Pan]

Obviously I am in the minority on this topic...I cannot garner sympathies for the employees having to get into their own pockets for health care..I have to pay $844.00 per month just for me.

With all due respect (i.e., nothing personal), why not support a national health plan to solve the problem for both them and you, instead of being like the dog in the manger in Aesop's fable? A national health plan is the real solution because it is indeed wrong to have the current patchwork; moreover, it's inefficient.

[Daisy]

EGAD! I posted a lengthy response, came back and it did not post....

Im not going to repeat everything I said, but basically I am not in favor of Universal Health Care. The Canadian method is not working well, I have had relatives experience shoddy treatment, such as having to wait 6 months for chemo therapy, waiting for longer periods for MRI. CT scans and etc...due to lack of the scan machines themselvs... We all know that Canadians come over here to have good and fast healthcare that they are willing to pay out of pocket.

Im not sure what the answer is to solve the problem but maybe go back to letting the doctors and hospitals handle things and get the government out....I am old enough to remember when you can choose whatever doctor you wanted and pay them by the month if insurance did not cover everything....This country does take care of those that cannot afford to pay for their care, It is not so much as a lack of healthcare as it is a lack of health insurance.

I wish there was a good answer that would make it right for everyone....

[Pan]

Your answer before suggested to me that you had thoughts of spreading the misery. You don't like paying a lot for health insurance. But as long as there's no national health plan, it will remain the case that unions will pressure employers to provide and maintain health insurance, whereas freelancers and other people who don't get their health paid for them will have to pay a lot of money in places where doctors' costs are high or/and there is a local monopoly/oligopoly of medical insurance.

Sure some Canadians come here. And many more Americans buy prescription medicine in Canada. And then there are people like my Canadian ex-girlfriend, who finds it cheaper to pay for a round-trip airfare from New York to Toronto and see her doctor there than merely get prescription medicine (let alone pay for an office or hospital visit), when she's between jobs as a permanent resident of the U.S. For people with a lot of money, the U.S. medical system is great. They have no problem to solve. For people who have no medical insurance in the U.S. and also lack great wealth, the medical systems in places like France - and I daresay, Canada - are better. But getting back to the topic at hand, I don't see where you have any grievance against workers who are trying to get their employers to pay (or keep paying) for medical insurance in the absence of a national medical plan that you disapprove of. Is it that you'd rather their pay and benefits were less, so that your food costs could be lower? That would be a selfish thought, right? So why criticize them for negotiating for what's best for them?

[Daisy]

Your answer before suggested to me that you had thoughts of spreading the misery.

Then you mis- read me. Anyone that needs medical care in this country gets it regardless of insurance, there is no way that I would want anyone to suffer without medical care.

It seems you are implying I am wealthy that is not the case by any means.

What I am saying is that we in this country seem to want others to pay our way, why shouldn't the employees pay a portion of their own insurance? That is the issue.

I really do believe national health insurance would be a disaster in the long run.

[Toliver]

The 4 & 1/2 month Southern California grocery strike may be finally coming to an end.

Click here for the story

Union members will be voting on a proposed contract and could be back to work by midweek.

By some analyst estimates, the strike cost the grocery chains between $1.5 billion and $2.5 billion in lost revenue. Safeway and Kroger each reported net losses exceeding $100 million in the quarter ended Dec. 31.

Not mentioned in the article is the fact the the Northern California Grocery Workers Union contract with the same three supermarket chains ends later this September. It will be interesting to see how it will play out.

Now the big question will be: Will the customers, who've spent the last 4 & 1/2 months shopping at other supermarkets (very few crossed the pickect lines), return to the Big 3?

[dfunghi]

So if Safeway and friends lost 3 billion $$$ I guess Trader Joes , Whole Foods, and a slew of small independent stores had a 3 B windfall. Seems like a big loser for both the union and the grocers. I'm a union member and have been in three diferent ones in my life. I think union mngmt is losing touch with reality. I suffered through a strike a couple of years ago and work conditions have never been back to where they were before. There are ill fellings and will be for some time to come. Nothing was gained. The same will happen to the supermarkets now. So when you go (if you go)back to Ralphs or .... Hopefully you wont be treated too badly by all the unhappy people there. Plus there will be a two teir wage now. I'm sure that wont cause any anomosity between workers, especially when the 20 plus year employee that stands around all day is making $19 per and the hard working youngster is making $9

Secondly , and I know this is harsh, grocery store clerks / managers do not need to be paid the same as EMT, or LVN, teachers, etc. It was nice while it lasted but the facts are people want to shop at the lowest priced stores not the stores with the highest paid employees. Perhaps if this was specialized work or it was done under averse conditions we could justify the saleries. But it's not either of those things. Perhaps there is a health risk to have our food handled by lower waged workers although Im not sure how. Standards must be followed. If people want to support the wage levels where they are now then dont shop at Walmart, Costco, dont look for sales, and spend 30% more for your food. Of course there is no way to know if the higher prices paid go beyond the stockholder to the stockboy.

For me I will shop at TJ's and WF as was our norm anyway. Both I might add have excellent wage / benefit packages. I am proud to say I did not ever once cross the picket line. Afterall Im a Union man.

D

[Chris Cognac]

I never crossed either,although some of the union actions as of late made it hard to support them.

I will be glad when they can go back to work and I can shop at Albertsons again!

[JFLinLA]

I will go back to Ralphs as full blown supermarkets are what works when shopping for a family of 4 while juggling work and the rest of life. While I will likely not be at WF or TJs as often, I will certainly be there more than I was before the strike.

On a side note, either the WSJ or the LA Times Business section profiled Costco within the last few weeks. They have a different business model than Walmart and employees do get benefits. And, for all the awful things about Walmart (and there are many), I know lots of folks in the Crenshaw area of Los Angeles are welcoming the new Walmart there as an economic impetus to the community that came in to a facility that had been sitting vacant for several years.

Life is not always black and white.

[Priscilla]

I sure hope it's settled. I have not crossed the picket lines.

If the strike is over, shopping-wise it will mean mostly an increased, or returned, degree of convenience -- the regular supermarket is a supplement to our habitual foraging, although largely due to the strike we did develop an excellent beef source, superior to the Certified Angus we liked from Albertson's.

I wonder if the employees will be at all the same -- at least two, both nice, are working at the local Trader Joe's presently. Maybe all the inept unpleasant ones will have found other situations and only the smart nice ones will return!