The Wine Clip

[Alex]

Taste the glass which was poured with The Wine Clip first.  Then the glass which was poured without. 

You'll notice a smoother more refined wine.  In many cases, even the bouquet is better.

This is not a good way to test the device because you are changing three variables together -- pouring it first, tasting it first, and using the clip.

If you don't use the wine clip, you might also notice a difference between the two glasses -- one will have had a bit longer to breathe,

be at a slightly different temperature etc. You should flip a coin to decide whether to use the wine clip first, and flip another coin to decide which one to taste.

Not that it really matters ....

I agree; this is not a good test.

Find two identical bottles of wine. Have the associate use the clip on one and not on the other. Pour a glass of each. Drink, wait, pour another glass...do whatever you want, as long as you do the same thing to both glasses and don't know which glass came from the clipped bottle. Take notes.

Repeat with four or five bottles.

That's the way to test the clip.

Bruce

Of course, one's ability to discern small differences will decrease as the amount consumed increases.

Seriously, though, taste buds do lose flavor sensitivity with repeated exposure over a short time. It's advisable to drink some water and rest a couple of minutes between tastings. It also would be interesting to do the comparison when the wine is drunk just after you consume some food -- cheese, for example.

If this test were being done for publication, you would have the associate mark either the treated or untreated glass -- you wouldn't know which one -- then leave the room so as not to give you any subtle non-verbal clues.

Which brings me to a thought I had when I was falling asleep last night. (Yes, eGullet is with me constantly.) If several eG'ers do blind (or double-blind) taste testings, essentially we -- instead of a testing lab -- are doing Dennis's work for him, at the cost to him of only a few Wine Clips. (It's not publishable, but it's still evidence of a sort.)

This I don't mind per se. (I'll be drinking the wine anyway, so sure, I'll check out the product. ) However -- and I'm not familiar with all of eGullet's policies, but I suspect that this is true (Fat Guy?...) -- we need to be careful that eGullet is not referenced on his web site, in promo materials, etc.

[Schneier]

Of course, one's ability to discern small differences will decrease as the amount consumed increases. 

Seriously, though, taste buds do lose flavor sensitivity with repeated exposure over a short time. It's advisable to drink some water and rest a couple of minutes between tastings. It also would be interesting to do the comparison when the wine is drunk just after you consume some food -- cheese, for example.

This is why us serious wine tasters spit. But yes, even when you spit you lose flavor sensibility over time.

But I would trust the above list to know how to deal with that.

Bruce

[thewineclip]

Alex

Have no fear, I won't reference this thread in our marketing material. And we've done the work for ourselves - thousands have taken the test well before I found eGullet.

Also, keep in mind that I did not start this thread. I was alerted by a friend that negative comments were being made on eGullet by people that never tried The Wine Clip. (I'd never heard of this site prior to that alert). All I'm trying to do is set a level playing field where comments are based on a user's experience.

So far I've spent hundred$ in sending eGullet members FREE Wine Clips - not to mention the freight to South Africa.

I ask that you give me a little slack until you try one

If nothing else, this has been a fun experience and I appreciate everyone's input !

This is a fabulous website and I will tell everyone about it! (no matter what people wind up writing).

Enjoy the weekend...

Edited October 5, 2003 by thewineclip (log)

[vengroff]

that's why we made a patent.

What's the patent number? A number of us here have scientific and/or engineering backgrounds and would be interested in reading it.

From the pictures I've seen on the web, it looks like the device consists of six cylindrical Neodymium Iron Boron magnets (about $1 each, much less than that in quantity) in a clip made of plastic and/or metal. Is there more to the device than this?

P.S. Are you this Dennis Lynch?

[budrichard]

I stoped reading the posts after the one posted by "The Wine Clip".

My degrees are in Nuclear Engineering and I assure that I am well learned in scientific theory and investigation. The statement

"Sometimes science can't be explained but it also can't be denied! "

is used by individuals to try and debunk the scientific method. An area such as wine tasting does not lend itself to rigerous scientific investigation simply because one cannot seperate out ones perceptions from objective evidence. In the absence of investigation, it's a little like answering the query " Prove to me that it doesn't work".

My reaction to the 'Wine Clip' is bull$#*t. Plain and simple. -Dick

[Schneier]

Fine plan, Craig. The guy deserves an objective test - I look forward to the reports.

Actually, I don't. Every crackpot doesn't deserve the ability to waste the time of professionals. But as long as people are interested and willing to give this an objective test, I'm interested in the results.

Bruce

[melkor]

Fine plan, Craig. The guy deserves an objective test - I look forward to the reports.

Actually, I don't. Every crackpot doesn't deserve the ability to waste the time of professionals. But as long as people are interested and willing to give this an objective test, I'm interested in the results.

I think we can expand on this test to make better use of our tasters time, we should address all the accessible crackpot wine solutions at once.

Two regularly mocked solutions to making a tight wine more drinkable are easy enough to test. One is to microwave a glass of wine for a few seconds, and the other is to toss a glass in a blender for a few seconds to aerate it.

Who knows – the blender thing seems more likely to work than a magnet.

[Alex]

I stoped reading the posts after the one posted by "The Wine Clip".

My degrees are in Nuclear Engineering and I assure that I am well learned in scientific theory and investigation. The statement

"Sometimes science can't be explained but it also can't be denied! "

is used by individuals to try and debunk the scientific method. An area such as wine tasting does not lend itself to rigerous scientific investigation simply because one cannot seperate out ones perceptions from objective evidence. In the absence of investigation, it's a little like answering the query " Prove to me that it doesn't work".

My  reaction to the 'Wine Clip' is bull$#*t. Plain and simple. -Dick

I know that I'm one of those "soft-headed" scientists (psychologist) responding to a "hard" scientist, but sometimes a person's perception is what's relevant. If well-controlled studies show that subjects perceive the treated wine as significantly different from (or not different from) the untreated, that's what matters, at least up to a point.

Past that point, I grant that these differences can't be quantified in any statistically meaningful way. ("Very little," "some," etc. would be interesting to obtain but provide no testable data.) That's also why I don't like the practice of scoring wines, a la Wine Spectator.

I'm willing to maintain an open-minded skepticism and not say "bull" (well, maybe "wee bull" ) until I see some reasonable evidence one way or the other. I prefer the James Randi approach of challenging outrageous-sounding claims via scientific inquiry. (Although I admit that if Dennis weren't sending me the clip on spec I certainly wouldn't spend $50 for one.)

I emphatically agree that Dennis's "Sometimes science can't be explained but it also can't be denied!" is disingenuous and misleading. The (very annoying) voice-over on their web site implied that the clip had been scientifically tested, yet I saw no data or link to any published study.

[thewineclip]

You guys make me , really.

To debate the science behind Magneto Hydro Dynamics doesn't get me excited, so I bow out of this debate.

For those who can't stand the voice over on our web site, there's a solution and it's not exactly rocket science... hit the mute button.

Let me make this real simple... The Wine Clip is a "nice to have" item if you like the way it treats wine. It comes down to PREFERENCE. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Now back to my "treated" wine and the greatest team in all the lands... The New York Yankees.

And Bruce, my father always told me, "it's nice to be nice" and "if you don't have anything intelligent to say, don't say it" - calling me a crackpot gives you about as much credibility as critisizing a product you've never used.

Edited October 5, 2003 by thewineclip (log)

[vengroff]

To debate the science behind Magneto Hydro Dynamics doesn't get me excited, so I bow out of this debate.

I'm not asking for a debate at this point. Before I do that I'd like to at least read over your patent to see what the method and apparatus are all about. If you could give me the number I'd be happy to look it up myself.

[hollywood]

The idea of a magnetic field being able to improve wine,

Yeah, a better investment would be The Magnetic Fields 69 Love Songs.

[tommy]

And Bruce, my father always told me, "it's nice to be nice" and "if you don't have anything intelligent to say, don't say it" - calling me a crackpot gives you about as much credibility as critisizing a product you've never used.

my dad always told me that you sell more wine clips with honey than you do with a baseball bat. just paraphrasing there really.

[docsconz]

Am I sceptical of the product- absolutely! That is why I started this thread. A lot of claims are made about all sorts of things, most of which pan out to be nonsense. Most likely, this fits into that category as well. Nevertheless, every once in a while claims are born out. Whether the claims for this device are remain to be seen. I plan on having someone else pour for me and perhaps some friends and having the tasters taste the wines "blind". In my opinion a "blind" tasting over several bottles and perhaps over several days is the only way to evaluate this product. The product "wins" only if the tastings consistently score it better than without.

I'm looking forward to this, if for no other reason than it is a good excuse to drink some wine...not that I need one .

[thewineclip]

A baseball bat Tommy?

Read the emails again and see who's swinging the bat. Not me! I've done nothing less than be a man of my word and a guy who's willing to stand up.

I probably need to have my head checked... sending all these people Wine Clips. For no other reason then negative commentary on this site is like the flu, highly contagious.

Go figure this...

Is there even a chance that all the skeptics would break down and say, "oh boy was I wrong, this Wine Clip thing really does work"?

Great entrepreneurs and Cindarella stories of all kinds become successful because they overcome the odds and hurdles placed by the "skeptical" --

The Wine Clip works people. Sorry to those who cannot accept it. I do sympothize...one day Steinbrenner will take the Yankees out of the Bronx and I'll kick and yell negative comments. But sooner of later I'll either accept it and buy in or just have to become a Mets fan (NOT).

And sorry, I stand corrected...patent-pending.

Edited October 6, 2003 by thewineclip (log)

[docsconz]

I would actually like it to work simply because anything that makes wine better is a good thing, even if it does come from a Yankee fan

[tommy]

Read the emails again and see who's swinging the bat.  Not me! I've done nothing less than be a man of my word and a guy who's willing to stand up. 

you're right. you're smooth and polite.

but it is nice you're sending people the clips. after all, it can only help business.

Edited September 23, 2004 by Jason Perlow (log)

[Alex]

Dennis, the web site voice-over mentioned something about the clip being tested on a pretty large group of people. Is a report available, either on the Internet or for a fee?

I'm quite serious about doing an extended blind taste test and posting the results here. And yes, if I find that the clip does indeed produce a significant improvement I'd have no problem sending you the $$ and continuing to use it.

This, btw, from someone who used to live just down the road from you on the Island, and, who in his move westward, shifted allegiance from the Yankees to the Mets (I was at Shea for the '69 Series) to the Tigers and now to the Cubs. (I'm pulling for a Yanks-Cubs Series. I'd love to see Sammy call his shot at the Stadium. ) I don't think that even Steinbrenner would have the chutzpah to move the Yankees out of The Bronx.

[thewineclip]

Tommy: don't think I'm smooth and a tad bitter? Perhaps I should get a magnetic body clip?

I'll talk to all after some taste tests are reported.

Stay well, drink well and GO YANKEES!

[Craig Camp]

Since a lot of people seem to have been sent The Wine Clip it is only fair we put together a fair test including all. First will everyone who is getting one PM me so that I know who is participating. We will need a chairperson and then we need to set a standardized test (same wine?)

Let's get this going in the direction of how and when it will be tested. Chair volunteers? Nominations?

[hollywood]

We will need a chairperson and then we need to set a standardized test (same wine?)

Something from Iron Horse?

[Craig Camp]

We will need a chairperson and then we need to set a standardized test (same wine?)

Something from Iron Horse?

To bad we don't have rim shots on the internet.

ba ba boom.

[tommy]

We will need a chairperson and then we need to set a standardized test (same wine?)

Something from Iron Horse?

To bad we don't have rim shots on the internet.

ba ba boom.

rimshot

(thanks jinmyo)

Edited September 23, 2004 by Jason Perlow (log)

[thewineclip]

I think 6 people have been sent a wine clip. I don't think we can wait on the man from South Africa - it could be some time before he gets it.

As for the taste test... We've conducted many and we figure over 2,000 people have tried it. Less than 1% say they can't taste a difference.

Keep in mind, mostly for legal reasons, we don't blind fold people.

Our claim is that a wine treated with the clip will taste less bitter and more smooth. We've used reds that cost anywhere from $10 to $100. You can try them in any order although I like it better when the treated wine is tasted first.

[Alex]

I think 6 people have been sent a wine clip.  I don't think we can wait on the man from South Africa - it could be some time before he gets it.

As for the taste test...  We've conducted many and we figure over 2,000 people have tried it.  Less than 1% say they can't taste a difference.

Keep in mind, mostly for legal reasons, we don't blind fold people. 

Our claim is that a wine treated with the clip will taste less bitter and more smooth.  We've used reds that cost anywhere from $10 to $100.  You can try them in any order although I like it better when the treated wine is tasted first.

Dennis, a blind test does not mean that you blindfold people. (You didn't put a smilie by that statement so I assume you weren't making a joke. Please ignore the next sentence if you were.) I realize that you're a salesman, not a scientist, but it might be good for you to be familiar with that and similar terms if you're going to be fielding questions about your product.

You still didn't say if there is a report in print. When you say "...we figure over 2,000 people have tried it" I'm led to believe that there isn't, and that your taste tests would not stand up to scientific scrutiny. If indeed more than 99% of your tasters thought the clip improved the wine, all the more reason to do some well-controlled studies.

Sorry if I seem so picky, but I strongly believe that rigorous scientific inquiry is the only way to provide evidence to support (or not support) the claims you make for the product.

Edited October 6, 2003 by Alex (log)

[thewineclip]

Alex:

There's the smile I forgot. I was trying to be witty... as with half the things I write.

None of the tests are documented. If they were, the document would have about 1,982 quotes that read, "holy sh*t, this thing works"!

We video taped the tests and they're currently being converted for the web.

The company that I partnered with to develop the clip employs engineers, scientists and magnetic experts. Not specifically for the wine clip but for the other magnetic products they make for companies like GM.

They designed and tested the product. I would be fibbing if I said I understood magnetics.

The Wine Clip is not the type of item that will sell because of the science behind it. From what I've read, magnetics cannot be totally explained. Much of it remains a mystery.

The Wine Clip will sell because like ketchup on a burger, it just makes the wine taste better.

And I'm not a salesperson. Just a cheerleader. But I appreciate your comments all the same.

Edited October 7, 2003 by thewineclip (log)