Wine List

deb@zydecos.net · October 10, 2003

My husband and I own two small cajun restaurants in Southern Indiana. The food is real south LA home cooking with an occasional nod to Creole and New Orleans cusine. I would like to expand my wine list but all I know is what I like (which is all I have served in 5 years) and I have no idea why I like what I like. The wine reps only push you for what they sell and so far it doesn't seem that they know much about wine period. One guy put a list together where every single bottle was $20!!!

I just want a few nice wines that pair well with well seasoned entreés (not hot), in a varity of prices. Any ideas?? Our average entreé price is $17.00

Thanks

Carolyn Tillie · October 10, 2003

Can you tell us what your wine list currently has on it? That would help -- also who are your reps and what companies do they represent? There are tons of wines I might recommend that you can't get in Indiana. Also, tell us more about your menu -- that also helps in making wine recommendations.

For southern home cooking, there are a number of varietals that work surprisingly well. For the nod to Creole, I recommend Alsatian-style Gewurztraminers (low residual sugar). Many Gewrtz are sickly sweet and considered more of a dessert wine but Alsatian-style can enhance Creole dishes tremendously. More whites would include Pinot Gris and Sauvignon Blanc (especially for fried food and anything you might have with oysters).

Also, Pinot Noir is the be-all, end-all of food wines. It is amazing how many dishes go with a good pinot but some taste tests might need to be done to find out just which ones (I recommend Robert Sinskey as he grows organic and makes fabulous California pinots).

As far as cult wines, Cabernet Franc is the new up-and-coming (I think). It is the grandfather grape to Cabernet Sauvignon and pairs well with a hefty steak as well as anything slighty fruity (glazed ham, lamb, meatloaf with ketchup...)

I hope this helps a bit.

deb@zydecos.net · October 10, 2003

Right now for my house wine at both I use Copperridge, at least it is drinkable for a house. In Mooresville I have Zabaco Red Zin , B&G Vouvray and Mondavi Coastal Chardonny. Monreauxvia has the Vouvray and Mondavi plus Black Opal Cab and some Arbor Crest thing that I don't care for. I know I want a Gewurztraiminer and I would like a Shiraz because I like it and I'm not above pouring myself a glass after a busy Friday night. Your suggestions sound wonderful, I just don't know what brand or vintage to get....again, thanks.

As to the menu...red beans, gumbo, Jambalaya, creoles and etouffées. Frogs, oysters, shrimp and crawfish. Aundouille and Boudin. An awesome blackened steak over jambalaya with a bernaise he makes with merlot instead of chardonny. If you are so inclined you can see the menu at Zydecos.net. Y'all help me with this and I'm buying dinner!!!

melkor · October 10, 2003

I took a look at your menu, I'm assuming you want the wine list to be reasonably priced so people will be comfortable buying wine without trippling the cost of their meal. Here's what I'd do

Whites

Col Vetoraz Brut (Italy - prosecco - $15 retail) - $30 bottleDr Loosen QmP Riesling (Germany ~10 retail) - $20 bottleKim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc (New Zealand - $15 retail) - 30 bottleTrimbach Gewurztraminer (Alsace France - $15) - $30 bottleSome nasty chard for cheap, any Mondavi is likely to sell well

Reds

Familia Cassone Malbec (Argentina ~ $13 retail) - $24 bottlePhelps Pastiche Red (California ~ 13 retail) - $24 bottlePenfolds Shiraz/Cabernet Rawsons Retreat (Australia - $8 retail) - $20 bottleQuivera Cuveee Zinfandel Blend (California - $14 retail) - $28 bottleSome Pinot, (I'm not a big fan, don't have a bunch of ideas)Same for Merlot, Mondavi or some such would work

Notes: Use Zardetto Prosecco brut if you can't get Col Vetoraz (its also a few bucks cheaper)

Terrazas Malbec would be my backup plan for the Cassone, which you may have trouble finding.

I'd serve the sparkler, the gewurz, and the chard by the glass and the malbec, zin, and merlot for the reds by the glass.

DaleW · October 10, 2003

Dr Loosen QmP Riesling (Germany ~10 retail)

Melkor,

I like your list. I think maybe you mean Qba, not QmP, based on price and lack of Pradikat.

Vouvray isn't a bad idea for a match, but IMHO B & G makes about the worse Vouvray imaginable.

Personally, I like dry rosés with Cajun as well as Creole food. Maybe a Tavel, a Provence, or the Il Mimo from Piemonte if available.

deb@zydecos.net · October 10, 2003

Thanks for the imput and keep it coming please...Any sugestion on a good Vouvray? My wait staff loves it so it tends to be the wine they sell the most of but I don't really want the worst one out there on the menu! I am going to see what I can get here based on the lists I've been given so far...I'll let you know what I come up with. Indiana is kind of backwards when it comes to alcohol which brings me to another problem. I always hated going to a nice restaurant and getting 4 ounces of wine for 5 or 6 bucks so when we opened I served 8--9 ounces in some nice big glasses so it could breath (see, I know something!). Well, everyone wants their glass filled to the rim! And I don't get the dregs of society in here either. We have our fair share of Hummers and BMW's in the parking lot. Anyway, I got some 10oz. glasses, fill em' up and everyone but me is happy. Maybe we should serve Boone's Farm?

Thanks again, You all rock!

Carolyn Tillie · October 10, 2003

Melkor's suggestion are fabulous and the malbec is pure inspiration (I always forget how much I like 100% malbec).

To break your customers from the easy mindset of 'nasty chard' or other similar crap, I would recommend you put the wine pairing recommendations directly on the menu with the individual dishes. Start off with a mini tasting menu of recommended wines with certain courses but offer a slight discount to those who take advantage of it - ultimately, they will be spending more money and your revenue will increase with added beverage sales.

Carolyn Tillie · October 10, 2003

Personally, I like dry rosés with Cajun as well as Creole food. Maybe a Tavel, a Provence, or the Il Mimo from Piemonte if available.

Yes, yes! rosés are so underrated and go so well with Creole!

Busboy · October 10, 2003

I took a look at your menu, I'm assuming you want the wine list to be reasonably priced so people will be comfortable buying wine without trippling the cost of their meal. Here's what I'd do
<center>Whites</center>
<center>Col Vetoraz Brut (Italy - prosecco - $15 retail) - $30 bottle</center><

Is southern Indiana ready for prosecco? :laugh:

Just wanted to add my thirds as rose for an ideal quaffing wine with a little crawfish etouffee or even a po' boy. Be wary, though, since most of the stuff available on the US market seems to be undrinkable swill, even a lot of the French stuff. Can't miss with Bonny Doon's Cigare de Volante Vin Gris, but it strikes me as a little expensive for your needs.

deb@zydecos.net · October 10, 2003

"The Jazz Singer" just opened in Southern Indiana (NOT the one with Neil Diamond) and it looks like "Rosé" doesn't exist here unless it's followed by "wine cooler". I'll keep looking....

melkor · October 10, 2003

Is southern Indiana ready for prosecco?

It is if you call it the house sparkling wine :blink:

I like your list. I think maybe you mean Qba, not QmP, based on price and lack of Pradikat.

Yep, I did mean Qba.

Craig Camp · October 10, 2003

[<center>Col Vetoraz Brut (Italy - prosecco - $15 retail) - $30 bottle</center><

Is southern Indiana ready for prosecco? :laugh:

melkor · October 10, 2003

"The Jazz Singer" just opened in Southern Indiana (NOT the one with Neil Diamond) and it looks like "Rosé" doesn't exist here unless it's followed by "wine cooler". I'll keep looking....

What distributors are you buying from? Do they have a catalog online?

tjaehnigen · October 11, 2003

Melkor, those are some inspired suggestions. Kudos to you.

Think of suggesting a new world riesling maybe? Perhaps from WA -- like the Eroica (retail about $17)? Might work. Or how about an Italian Primitivo? I like Felline, I've had 97 and 98 and both were great ($9 or so retail).

Craig Camp · October 11, 2003

I've found the Felline a little erratic - try the A-mano for a more reliable a fruity style.

You need to go for maximum fruit and minimum tannin. Tannin and spicy are a bad match.

Some other thoughts on wines that should be available to you:

Saintsbury Garnet Pinot Noir

Drouhin Beaujolais Villages

DeLoach Gewurztraminer

Pine Ridge Chenin Blanc/Viognier

Delicato Syrah

Marietta Old Vine Lot 31 (red)

Sanford Sauvignon Blanc

Hogue Late Harvest Riesling (med. sweet)

Chateau Moncontour Vouvray (not great but reliable/available and it has to be better than B&G)

deb@zydecos.net · October 15, 2003

From Melkor's list I can get:

Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc

Trembach Gewurz

Penfolds Dhiraz/Cab

Zardetto Prosecco brut

Terrazas Malbec

I can also get from other suggestions:

Pedroncelli Rose

Dry Creek and Murphy Goode Sauvignon Blancs

Bonny Doon and Regaleali Roses

Bonny Doon Riesling

Joesph Drouhin Beaujolais

Seghesio Zin

Guigal Rhone

Rodney Strong Cab

I can get the Chateau Moncontour to replace the B&G Vouvray anfd it is only $1 more a bottle.

What would make a well rounded wine list? I can use different wines for the two restaurants. Z1 is french Quarter rowdy all the way while Z5 is Royal Street Bistro, white table cloths, fountain in the center and exposed brick. Although they are both a good time. People stay for hours and hours so I really need to get some wine moving since I can't seem to turn tables.

Again, thanks.

Mark Sommelier · October 15, 2003

Deb,

If you keep the list small and well focused, you can offer all the wines on the list by the glass, too. Glass sales lead to bottle sales if the wines are well chosen and well priced.

deb@zydecos.net · October 15, 2003

Should I offer all of them? I've noticed places offering half glasses, how does that work? Also, I pour 8oz., that seems to be more than I 've been offered elsewhere. Is that too much or should I offer half glasses too?

Mark Sommelier · October 15, 2003

Should I offer all of them? I've noticed places offering half glasses, how does that work? Also, I pour 8oz., that seems to be more than I 've been offered elsewhere. Is that too much or should I offer half glasses too?

Yikes, Deb! 8 oz. is a third of a bottle. What do you charge for that? One glass like that is plenty. Most places pour 4-5 oz glasses to get 5 glasses from a bottle. At my place, I pour 6 oz to get 4 glasses from a bottle. The half glass, or tasting pour works like this: instead of giving one 6 oz. glass of wine, you can let people taste 3 2oz. pours of different things. This is called a "flight". Typically, you would offer 3 tastes of 3 different chardonnays, pinot noirs or cabernets for comparison, and charge what one glass, or slightly more, would cost. You need a lot of glassware to do this, though.

deb@zydecos.net · October 15, 2003

I know that is insane, but, I always hated getting 4oz of wine at a restaurant. We started with about 6oz. but we are in Indiana and everyone (Doctors, Lawyers, Farmers, the trash guy...it doesn't matter) feels they are being ripped off unless their glass is full so the bartenders always end up adding a little lagnaippe and all of the sudden we're at 8oz. I actually had to go to smaller glasses or we would have ended up with 14oz. glasses of wine. I live in terror of someone ordering Brandy when I'm not here.

Also, Mark, do you think I should use all those wines? Mooresville seats 56 and Monreauxvia seats 96....

deb@zydecos.net · October 15, 2003

I also need a decent cab and Merlot. Some People around here are just stuck on those. Also, I am confused. Is a Rose sweet or dry? I have read both and that sometimes you don't know till you open the bottle. Can this be true?

Echezeaux · October 15, 2003

One possible suggestion is to bring the customer an empty glass but a small decanter or carafe filled with the 6 ounce serving. This allows the customer to pour the wine themselves and have a "full" serving.

I liked these suggestions:

Pedroncelli Rose

Dry Creek and Murphy Goode Sauvignon Blancs

Bonny Doon and Regaleali Roses

Bonny Doon Riesling

Joesph Drouhin Beaujolais

Seghesio Zin

Guigal Rhone

......as they show a certain amount of sophistication without having huge price tags.

Schneier · October 15, 2003

I know that is insane, but, I always hated getting 4oz of wine at a restaurant.

I'm the opposite. I'd rather get smaller pours.

Often when I buy the wine pairing with dinner I ask for half pours, just to limit waste.

Bruce

dlc · October 15, 2003

From Melkor's list I can get:
Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc
Trembach Gewurz
Penfolds Dhiraz/Cab
Zardetto Prosecco brut
Terrazas Malbec
I can also get from other suggestions:
Pedroncelli Rose
Dry Creek and Murphy Goode Sauvignon Blancs
Bonny Doon and Regaleali Roses
Bonny Doon Riesling
Joesph Drouhin Beaujolais
Seghesio Zin
Guigal Rhone
Rodney Strong Cab
I can get the Chateau Moncontour to replace the B&G Vouvray anfd it is only $1 more a bottle.
What would make a well rounded wine list? I can use different wines for the two restaurants. Z1 is french Quarter rowdy all the way while Z5 is Royal Street Bistro, white table cloths, fountain in the center and exposed brick. Although they are both a good time. People stay for hours and hours so I really need to get some wine moving since I can't seem to turn tables.
Again, thanks.

The Regaleali Rose is spectacular and a great match with Creole. The price makes this verry attractive also. If you can get that, try the Lugana or the Pinot Grigio as well from Winebow.

Mark Sommelier · October 15, 2003

I also need a decent cab and Merlot. Some People around here are just stuck on those. Also, I am confused. Is a Rose sweet or dry? I have read both and that sometimes you don't know till you open the bottle. Can this be true?

Rosé d'Anjou is sweet, Rosé de Tavel is dry. Bandol Rosé, Sancerre Rosé and Rosé de Provence are dry, too.

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