Burger Club

[tommy]

i'm concerned that some of the objective aspects (in my estimation anyway) of the burger were reported so differently by several BCers. the char, specifically, although there are probably more. i suppose these things are more subjective than i thought?

[elyse]

There was no char. There was browning....

I agree with you tommy. And that's three times in one week!

[tommy]

There was no char.  There was browning....

oh fuck off.

can we get a BC dictionary here? jeesh.

Edited October 12, 2003 by tommy (log)

[elyse]

You can have browning without char, but you can't have char without browning. The sun will eventually make meat brown, but it ain't gonna be palatable.

[picaman]

I had the onion rings and agree with elyse; there was, in my batch, a detectable fishy taste.  I'm not sure I tasted that as strongly, though, in the one I had off of MHesse's plate.

I only had the one from MHesse's plate. I only took a second bite to make sure I wasn't paranoid.

I may have lost track of the ring progression -- you are right. The one you had was off of MHesse's plate. At any rate, there were varying degrees of fishiness in my estimation, but the fishiness was ever-present.

How was the Guinness, anyone who had one?

Good and warm to the right degree. I'd have preferred to get a lager and let the Guinness settle a bit, but I wanted to stay as sharp as possible. Two beers? I'm a cheap date

i'm concerned that some of the objective aspects (in my estimation anyway) of the burger were reported so differently by several BCers. the char, specifically, although there are probably more. i suppose these things are more subjective than i thought?

One man's char...

Jamie

Edited October 12, 2003 by picaman (log)

[slkinsey]

How was the Guinness, anyone who had one?

Good, but far from the best I've had in the city.

A really good Guiness depends on a lot of things: the nitrogen setup, the condition of the setup, how much Guinness they sell (i.e., how fresh the product is likely to be), etc.

[elyse]

I'm all about the freshness. Where do you like, Sam?

[Fat Guy]

i'm concerned that some of the objective aspects (in my estimation anyway) of the burger were reported so differently by several BCers.  the char, specifically, although there are probably more.  i suppose these things are more subjective than i thought?

We weren't all eating the same burger, and the one I ate wasn't even prepared at the same time as the others. Nor is there yet a clear set of definitions of terms like "char." It may sound a bit like hair-splitting, but there are differences between a really dark burnt or almost-burnt crust (I'd call that char), a moderate crust (I'd just call that crust), and a dry non-crust that is simply dark in color (I'd call that limp-brown or something). The process definitely needs to be refined a bit, and part of that involves really focusing on each specific aspect and agreeing on terminology and standards, but at the same time I think that for a first outing this was tremendously well organized and conceived. To be fair, at the end, it may be necessary to revisit the first three or four places in order to evaluate them by the better-understood standards that will no doubt emerge.

I would also suggest that, since it seems inevitable for all these events to occur on Saturdays and it's rather difficult to pull together such a large group (especially with so many people traveling from outside Manhattan), it might make sense to double up on these events. Burgers are not expensive and it's not necessary to finish each one. In a bar situation, it's sometimes even possible to split them without arousing the ire of the staff. And some of the places on the list serve smaller burgers. Doing the places in pairs will help with the comparative aspect of things and will also be more efficient -- it might be possible to do this project well in a year, but it would require doubling up I think.

Also at some point I think it would be helpful for, say, Sam Kinsey and I to host a burger session at my place, where we could demonstrate various burger techniques and the like under very controlled circumstances. The radiant heat broiler unit in my DCS range can pretty well replicate the effect of a restaurant broiler, and a cast-iron skillet is a good substitute for a griddle. I don't have a grinder attachment for my KitchenAid, but surely someone could bring one -- or a hand-grinder -- over. I don't have a big place, but if we limited attendance to die-hard burger-club members (say, a maximum of 14 guests) we could produce four burgers in each of several styles and split each into quarters. Then we could really get our terms defined well, and we could have some uniform standards up to which we could hold all subsequent burgers.

[elyse]

The NYC Eats Blog mentioned Burger Club.  There's also a new site called The Food Section that looks interesting (via Lockhart Steele's Below 14th).

Steven! This is what I was telling you about.

[MHesse]

Nice to meat meet the familiar and new faces today.

Agreeing with much of above, Molly's burger was a good pub burger, though undoubtedly not the best burger in New York. It was a good value at 7 bucks, it was big (9 ounces), it was made with good meat. The plate was nicely dressed with fresh lettuce, ordinary tomato, 2 slices of raw onion, and good pickle - better dressed than some other burger places. Yes, it needed salt.

I hadn't been to Molly's before, but would go back if in the neighborhood and thirsty or hungry.

--mh

[elyse]

I personally don't want to double up, and I don't want this to become a task. I would like to meet around every two weeks and eat a whole burger, or as much as it takes to sate me. It's about experiencing a burger, not filling out paperwork. Once it becomes work, it's dead.

[Fat Guy]

I personally don't want to double up, and I don't want this to become a task.  I would like to meet around every two weeks and eat a whole burger, or as much as it takes to sate me.  It's about experiencing a burger, not filling out paperwork.  Once it becomes work, it's dead.

You're the boss.

[SethG]

This Molly's report has me more depressed than the Pig Pickin' thread, even though the burgers were disappointing. I want to join you, and I want to write that I'll make the next one, but who am I kidding? I'm not going to make it. It's a stage of life thing... my newborn, who will arrive within the next couple weeks, will give me much more than any burger. But I'll be very jealous with each new report just the same!

Maybe I'll cook burgers every couple Saturdays, just to be with you in spirit.

[tommy]

Agreeing with much of above, Molly's burger was a good pub burger, though undoubtedly not the best burger in New York.

i was thinking earlier that i'd definitely categorize it as a good pub burger. well, a very good pub burger. but i think the "pub burger" descriptor here is important. it's not S&W. it's probably not Luger's (although i've never sampled that specimen). but it's a good pub burger.

as for guinness, i've ended up up the road a bit at paddy reilly's, and thems some good guinness. in fact, it's the only beer they have on tap, and they have about 20 taps. i think very few better guinness's can be found in manhattan. i doubt they have a burger, however.

Edited October 12, 2003 by tommy (log)

[elyse]

I personally don't want to double up, and I don't want this to become a task.  I would like to meet around every two weeks and eat a whole burger, or as much as it takes to sate me.  It's about experiencing a burger, not filling out paperwork.  Once it becomes work, it's dead.

You're the boss.

I'm kind of open to a general consensus. Must state my opinion, though.

[Suzanne F]

Suzanne made a good point at some point   -- with so many people ordering burgers at one time, we need to remember to tell the wait staff to bring them out as they come off the grill, so that they don't sit around in the kitchen under heat lamps.

Did Suzanne say that too?  I was stressing about that.  Great minds think alike.

I'd definitely go back to Molly's in a heartbeat; the place was great even if the burger itself was just average.

How was the Guinness, anyone who had one?

Twas not I. On either expressing that bit of wisdom, or on having Guinness. Whoever pointed that out is absolutely right, though.

And I realized that it might be rare that the timing from order-into-the-kitchen to first-burger-out will be as good a measure it it was today. It worked perfectly because ours were the ONLY orders at that time; but if a place is busy, it won't be as accurate.

Edited October 12, 2003 by Suzanne F (log)

[slkinsey]

Also at some point I think it would be helpful for, say, Sam Kinsey and I to host a burger session at my place, where we could demonstrate various burger techniques and the like under very controlled circumstances.

Hah! I was thinking something like that too. We could definitely do griddled (i.e., pan fried) and broiled burgers, we could see the difference between different grinds and different meats, we could look at the effects of different griddle temperature settings, we could par-cook one and finish it after it has been sitting around a while (which is something that apparently happens in some places) and we could see what kind of difference it makes grinding the meat immediately before cooking the burger as opposed to, say, 24 hours before. Obviously, we could also set some mutually agreed upon standards and terminology. I have a KA grinder attachment, BTW.

[tommy]

i hope you guys have good ventilation. i can barely make one burger in my cast iron skillet without smoking up my entire house. then again, i'm clueless.

[bergerka]

This Molly's report has me more depressed than the Pig Pickin' thread, even though the burgers were disappointing.  I want to join you, and I want to write that I'll make the next one, but who am I kidding?  I'm not going to make it.  It's a stage of life thing... my newborn, who will arrive within the next couple weeks, will give me much more than any burger.  But I'll be very jealous with each new report just the same!

Maybe I'll cook burgers every couple Saturdays, just to be with you in spirit.

Don't be jealous. Newborns are much more important than hamburgers.

My best friend reports that hers is almost as tasty as a hamburger, though. *ducks and runs*

K

[Fat Guy]

I have good-enough ventilation to pull this off if the weather is cool outside and we can get a cross-breeze going. It would probably take a week to get the odors out of the apartment, but I don't mind.

But I'll defer to Elyse on whether she thinks this would be a good idea and in keeping with the fun-casual mission of the burger club. I didn't mean to coopt it -- I was just offering feedback and services. She's definitely the boss, or there may be several bosses, but I'm not one of them!

[elyse]

Suzanne made a good point at some point     -- with so many people ordering burgers at one time, we need to remember to tell the wait staff to bring them out as they come off the grill, so that they don't sit around in the kitchen under heat lamps.

Did Suzanne say that too?  I was stressing about that.  Great minds think alike.

I'd definitely go back to Molly's in a heartbeat; the place was great even if the burger itself was just average.

How was the Guinness, anyone who had one?

Twas not I. On either expressing that bit of wisdom, or on having Guinness. Whoever pointed that out is absolutely right, though.

Twas me.

[picaman]

Suzanne made a good point at some point     -- with so many people ordering burgers at one time, we need to remember to tell the wait staff to bring them out as they come off the grill, so that they don't sit around in the kitchen under heat lamps.

Did Suzanne say that too?  I was stressing about that.  Great minds think alike.

I'd definitely go back to Molly's in a heartbeat; the place was great even if the burger itself was just average.

How was the Guinness, anyone who had one?

Twas not I. On either expressing that bit of wisdom, or on having Guinness. Whoever pointed that out is absolutely right, though.

Twas me.

Guinness, seediness, onion rings, heat lamps...clearly all too much for me to keep track of

Jamie

[elyse]

And surely you remember everyone's names, right?

Edited October 12, 2003 by elyse (log)

[picaman]

And surely you remember everyone's names, right?

Every last one. Of course, I have them written down on the burger evaluations.

Jamie

[picaman]

picaman, do you actually eat like... food?

I've been "picaman" on message boards since the dark ages of 300 baud modems dialing into BBSes--the name to me referred to "pica" the unit of measurement in printing, as I used to work in that biz. Also always found pretty amusing the double-entendre caused by mispronounciation (pick-a-man )

Had no idea until yesterday, though, that pica was an eating disorder characterized by eating inappropriate things. elyse, your formerly cryptic comment now makes sense!

On a serious note, my sincere apologies if I inadvertently offended anyone with my choice of screen name.

On a lighter note, I assure everyone that, other than a spoonful or chug of the occasional condiment, I limit my palate to a societally accepted palette.

Off the topic of burgers, but thought it worth mentioning.

Jamie