Chinese cookbooks

[FoodMan]

While researching to buy a good Chinese cook book, I found this thread awhile back. From reading through it I decided on purchasing the Wei Chuan’s “Chinese Cuisine” book and/or Topp’s “the modern art…”. I also thought, based on a couple of negative reviews in this thread that Tropp’s “China Moon” cookbook was not worth the paper it was printed on!!! Anyways, I did get the Wei Chuan book and honestly I was a little disappointed. The book is really a collection of recipes, the recipes are good but that’s all they are: recipes. It really did not make me more familiar with the cuisine or teach me much. What it did have is a good list/picture of commonly used ingredients and I value it for that. After reading a little through it, it made sense why it was built like this, IT IS PART OF A SERIES!! Duh, right? So to get the whole experience you pretty much have to buy several Wei Chuan books. For example “Chinese Cuisine” had nothing to do with rise, buns, eggrolls,noodles,… it only dealt with several recipes of “main entrees” (chicken, pork, fish,..) and not an extensive list at that. So for any future users looking for a good Chinese book, please keep what I said in mind.

Which brings me to that wonderful book called “China Moon” by Brabara Tropp. I picked it up on impulse at a used book store in a like-new condition for $3 after flipping through it for a few minutes and reading some paragraphs. I am so glad I did. This book has it all, it might not be “authentic Chinese grandmother recipes”, but using this book I can create wonderful meals (be it elaborate entrees, noodles, rice dishes, soups, buns or rolls). If nothing else matters, it should be bought solely for the Pantry section and for Tropp’s advice on what brand names to buy of various Chinese ingredients (like bean paste, vinegars, oils, noodles…). Yes, the ingredient list is long and you do need to have certain things prepared in advance like Chili oils and such, after all it IS a restaurant recipe cookbook. The thing is though you can simply spend a few hours on a weekend and prepare the main 4 or 5 items (oils, pickled ginger, spice mix) and they would last for a long long time and you can use them whenever the recipe asks for it. Another shortcut is to substitute certain ingredients, like using the regular chili oil instead of the orange chili oil or use regular good quality unsalted stock instead of the infusions (she actually gives the option to do this). I can go on about the virtues of this book like the side bars with Ms. Tropp’s advice, tips, tales and light-hearted writing style. I can really tell she was very passionate about and loved what she did. So, if you are looking to learn more about this cuisine, you love to cook and are not afraid of making your own stock or chili oil then you will love this one. When I do run across Tropp’s first book I will also make sure to buy it.

To make a long story short, IMHO, “China Moon” cookbook was misjudged in this thread and I felt it belongs here among other favorites for Chinese cookbooks.

Now if I could only get a hold of a good source for Szechuan peppercorns ….

Elie

[jo-mel]

When you find Barbara Tropp's (Bless her) "Modern Art of Chinese Cooking: -- you won't be disappointed. She takes you through procedures with great detail. Her recipes are fine, but it is her techiques for which I cherish the book.

Many cookbooks are just collections of recipes, but my favorites are those with color --- not in pictures, but in recipe background, family reminiscences, historical explanation --- you get the idea.

Of course the recipes have to be good, but the learning experience is a big plus. Dunlop's book is a good example of this. With all the Chinese cookbooks I have and with the long time I've been doing this, I eagerly sat own and read her book like a novel!! LOL!

[FoodMan]

Many cookbooks are just collections of recipes, but my favorites are those with color --- not in pictures, but in recipe background, family reminiscences, historical explanation --- you get the idea.

I sure do get the idea. This was my main gripe with the Wei Chuan book I got. It is a collection of very good recipes, nothing more.

Elie

[trillium]

To make a long story short, IMHO, “China Moon” cookbook was misjudged in this thread and I felt it belongs here among other favorites for Chinese cookbooks.

You're of course entitled to your opinion (who isn't, right?), but I personally don't consider it to be a good cookbook for classic Chinese food or even the best book out there for background, "color" or pantry decisions (her first book is a different story). And really, it has nothing to do with being afraid of making my own sauce or chilli oil, c'mon, that's nearly insulting! I ate at Barbara Tropp's China Moon restaurant in SF when it was still there. It was for the most part good food, but it wasn't really what I'd define as basic/classic Chinese food, I'd define it more as good fusion food...ginger ice cream and hot chocolate sauce...yum.

It's great that you like it and that it is encouraging you to explore Chinese cookery, but that doesn't mean that other people's evaluations of the book are misguided or that they need to be scolded. And for the record, I'm not a huge fan of the Wei Chuan books either, but I put that down as a regional bias, not that the books themselves stink.

regards,

trillium

[FoodMan]

It's great that you like it and that it is encouraging you to explore Chinese cookery, but that doesn't mean that other people's evaluations of the book are misguided or that they need to be scolded.

I absolutly did not mean to scold, and I apologize if my comments seemed to come up this way. When I said "misjudged" I meant it was not judged for what it is. It is not a classic Chinese cooking book and does not claim to be, nor a simple recipes book. It is a restaurant cookbook for those who would like to try the dishes at home. This I felt should be taken into consideration when discussing it. As for the dessert section (that ice cream is yummy ), it again goes back to "China Moon" being a restaurant in America, as Ms. Tropp explains, and patrons always expect dessert.

Elie

[Gary Soup]

Many cookbooks are just collections of recipes, but my favorites are those with color --- not in pictures, but in recipe background, family reminiscences, historical explanation --- you get the idea.

I sure do get the idea. This was my main gripe with the Wei Chuan book I got. It is a collection of very good recipes, nothing more.

Elie

Isn't "very good recipes" what most people buy cookbooks for? Cookbooks are meant to be read in the kitchen, I would think, not sitting on the crapper.

[herbacidal]

Many cookbooks are just collections of recipes, but my favorites are those with color --- not in pictures, but in recipe background, family reminiscences, historical explanation --- you get the idea.

I sure do get the idea. This was my main gripe with the Wei Chuan book I got. It is a collection of very good recipes, nothing more.

Elie

Isn't "very good recipes" what most people buy cookbooks for? Cookbooks are meant to be read in the kitchen, I would think, not sitting on the crapper.

Yea, but when you can read them on the crapper, isn't that a great bonus?

[jo-mel]

I understand what you are saying, Gary, but we can get so much more from a cookbook than recipes.

My books have been my teachers. It is not enough to enjoy just the taste of say---5 Spice powder as to appreciate it for its history and the wonders of its elements. Why the reason for uncut noodles or the difference between spring/egg rolls or even between Cantonese and Shanghai rolls. I can happily eat a Thanksgiving meal, but the history of it gives it meaning. And so on.

Yes, I want very good recipes, but I want to expand my knowledge too.

BTW - The 'loo' book is ----The Book of Totally Useless Information. LOL!

[FoodMan]

Many cookbooks are just collections of recipes, but my favorites are those with color --- not in pictures, but in recipe background, family reminiscences, historical explanation --- you get the idea.

I sure do get the idea. This was my main gripe with the Wei Chuan book I got. It is a collection of very good recipes, nothing more.

Elie

Isn't "very good recipes" what most people buy cookbooks for? Cookbooks are meant to be read in the kitchen, I would think, not sitting on the crapper.

I think Jo-mel pretty much summed it up. When I buy a cookbook I actually read it (intros, history, recipe introductions and so on), I do not just flip to the recipes and start cooking. If all I want is recipes, I would think the public library and internet would be more than enough.

Elie

[Big Bunny]

If you really want to know a cuisine, but don't have the opportunity to study "over there" or with an excellent teacher, a collection of books is the only answer.

Ms. Tropp's two books are a good example. In the first she establishes her credibility, in the second she "takes off and flies" - in her own way, based on the traditional way plus what she brings to it.

Each cook/author - many of them cited on this thread - brings insights, ideas, prejudices, personal history and a zillion other things to the table.

I spend more time reading about Asian (and other) cuisine than cooking and eating combined. There is so much to learn, and so many people have said so much.

BB

[trillium]

Isn't "very good recipes" what most people buy cookbooks for? Cookbooks are meant to be read in the kitchen, I would think, not sitting on the crapper.

Not every person has an ethnic Chinese family member full of their own biases/traditions cooking in the kitchen. For many people interested in learning about a cuisine different from their own an ideal cookbook gives some background and context to the dishes it sets out recipes for. Food is a very personal area, and for many, a good cookbook not only contains recipes but explains the culinary point of reference of the author.

I'm curious, we know you do a lot of eating, but do you do any cooking? I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, just that if your view towards a good cookbook might change in different circumstances.

regards,

trillium

[Gary Soup]

I'm curious, we know you do a lot of eating, but do you do any cooking? I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, just that if your view towards a good cookbook might change in different circumstances.

I don't do much cooking these days, but of course I cooked for myself in my single days, and in my first marriage I probably cooked as much as my wife. It was a sweet deal, IMHO: If I cooked, she would do the dishes. Much better than the other way around. Now my wife won't let me do either.

I always cooked something that I had had some experience eating, and a notion of how it should turn out. I viewed cookbooks as a technical manual, for ingredients, times, techniques, etc. but was always glad to put them aside and take my best shot.

I do a lot of reading about the history and anthroplogy of foods, especially Chinese food and its globalization, but but see that as a separate intellectual exercise. No sense spilling sesame oil on a $40 tome that doesn't have a laminated cover.

I do like to browse through cookbooks that have good illustrations, but that's just from my weakness for food porn (I COULD say that I read them for the articles).

[chengb02]

this has been a very interesting discussion to me as I've always considered getting a Chinese cookbook in the US to add to my collection of ones purchased in China and recipes from relatives, but never really sure as to which ones will produce the "authentic" flavors that I know and am looking for.

When I do deal with cookbooks, I typically am just looking for a good recipe and maybe a picture or two of the dish, anything more can get to be overkill, but it really depends on who is writing the book. That doesn't mean scholarly inquiry (or even just a bit of knowledge on the food) is a bad thing, but I'd prefer to find it in something other than a cookbook.

[Gary Soup]

I've stumbled across an on-line source of bilingual (Chinese-English) cookbooks -- almost 200 titles, including many in the Wei-Chuan series. The distributor is in Texas, so shipping costs should not be a big factor.

Tsai Fong Books

[FoodMan]

probably a stupid question but I think this is a good place to ask it instead of starting a new thread. I've been meaning to try one of the ribs recipes from In the Wei Chuan "Chinese Cuisine" book. However, in the ingredient lists they always ask for "pork back ribs" no matter what the preparation is. So, should I just buy spare ribs or do they mean baby back ribs??

Elie

[Ben Hong]

IMHO, any ole rib will do. Hell, pork chops will do and they are sometimes cheaper. Certainly you get more meat from a pork chop. Back ribs are more tender and leaner, but nothing beats the greasy chewiness of side ribs / spareribs.

Except for certain very specified ingredients, substitution and versatility should be a guideline. Nothing that you put in the pot will actually poison anyone and there definitely won't be a guy in the kitchen ready to "GONG" you. Cooking should be a creative process.

[jo-mel]

probably a stupid question but I think this is a good place to ask it instead of starting a new thread. I've been meaning to try one of the ribs recipes from In the Wei Chuan "Chinese Cuisine" book. However, in the ingredient lists they always ask for "pork back ribs" no matter what the preparation is. So, should I just buy spare ribs or do they mean baby back ribs??

Elie

Recently at a Chinese restaurant, they had Deep-Fried Salt & Pepper Spare Ribs on the menu. I love these things, so I ordered it. Turned out not to be spare ribs, but a thin porkchop with a small bone. Not what I expected, but it was just as good as the usual ribs. Both pork -- both good.

[Gary Soup]

probably a stupid question but I think this is a good place to ask it instead of starting a new thread. I've been meaning to try one of the ribs recipes from In the Wei Chuan "Chinese Cuisine" book. However, in the ingredient lists they always ask for "pork back ribs" no matter what the preparation is. So, should I just buy spare ribs or do they mean baby back ribs??

Elie

Recently at a Chinese restaurant, they had Deep-Fried Salt & Pepper Spare Ribs on the menu. I love these things, so I ordered it. Turned out not to be spare ribs, but a thin porkchop with a small bone. Not what I expected, but it was just as good as the usual ribs. Both pork -- both good.

Chinese tend to loosely use the same word "paigu" for any part of the loin, just as they use the word "tipang" for any part of the leg, from the foot to the ham. "Rou" is often associated with the side, though of course it can refer generally to any kind of flesh.

[mudbug]

Isn't "very good recipes" what most people buy cookbooks for? Cookbooks are meant to be read in the kitchen, I would think, not sitting on the crapper.

Cookbooks are meant to be read in the kitchen, I would think, not sitting on the crapper.

I have agree with the first sentence and disagree with the second, everyone is different. My other half does a lot of cooking and likes to read at that time. I make sure there's a cookbook or two in amongst the magazines and inevitably new dishes in the kitchen will result from the time spent reading the recipes outside of the kitchen.

If it's a cookbook - first and foremost, quality recipes are certainly the number one priority... as for pictures, history, personal comments, etc. Everyone (both writer and reader) is different. Some learn by reading, some are visual learners, other auditory, etc. Experience also has a lot to do with it. Someone who's been cooking a wide variety of foods for a number of years is more likely to be able to read a recipe without pictures and be able to accurately assume what it's going to look and taste like and what adjustments they might make themselves. Others need photos to see what their goal is.

Assuming that the recipes are universally perceived as "good", I don't think there's a right or wrong way to embellish additional information as long as it's pertinent to the recipe and the recipe is accurate and easy to read.

We all present ourselves in different ways and learn in different ways and we're all at different levels of cooking experience. What's important is that there's something for everyone.

[mags]

In thinking about why I so love Modern Art of Chinese Cooking, and am so ...almost turned off by China Moon, I can't help feeling that the latter cookbook was heavily influenced by Tropp's health. Specifically, she had cancer, and was -- or so I've read -- deeply engaged in pursuing a "healthier" lifestyle in order to try to beat the disease. So when I look through the China Moon book, I'm so aware of how low-fat many of the recipes are, of what seems like an almost overly aggressive attempt to pile in as many different vegetables as possible, etc. It reads, to me, like a "The Healthy Way to Eat Chinese" sort of cookbook, reminding me of some vaguely depressing offering from the Weight Watchers press -- despite the incredibly labor-intensive stuff involving making one's own chili oil and whatever else is called for in the book.

[FoodMan]

In thinking about why I so love Modern Art of Chinese Cooking, and am so ...almost turned off by China Moon, I can't help feeling that the latter cookbook was heavily influenced by Tropp's health. Specifically, she had cancer, and was -- or so I've read -- deeply engaged in pursuing a "healthier" lifestyle in order to try to beat the disease. So when I look through the China Moon book, I'm so aware of how low-fat many of the recipes are, of what seems like an almost overly aggressive attempt to pile in as many different vegetables as possible, etc. It reads, to me, like a "The Healthy Way to Eat Chinese" sort of cookbook, reminding me of some vaguely depressing offering from the Weight Watchers press -- despite the incredibly labor-intensive stuff involving making one's own chili oil and whatever else is called for in the book.

Thanks for the very insightful observation mags, that does make sense. Did you ever eat at China Moon? Does the book reflect the items offered there? I am wondering now if she changed her menu at the restaurant as a response to her battle with cancer. Maybe China Moon would've been a more popular book had she written it in different times...I guess we'll never know.

Elie

[mags]

I ate at China Moon once, about a year before it closed, and I was sadly disappointed -- probably, in retrospect, for some of the same reasons the second book disappointed me. I'm guessing she did change her menu just as she changed her cooking (as reflected in the transition from the first to the second book), but somebody who ate there over a period of time would be better placed to answer than I.

[jo-mel]

Barbara Tropp's China Moon cookbook came out in 1992. I guess it would have taken a couple of years to write it. I'm not sure when she first discovered she was ill, but I would guess the mid 90s??

I was only at the China Moon Cafe once --- sometime in the 80s if my memory is right. At the time, looking at the menu,I thought it was part of the California fusion cooking that was beginning to take hold. The cookbook reflects it --IMMHO. Her short life was so full, and she was always reaching up. -- I guess the China Moon cookbook was the creative way to go, after her 'Modern Art' -- One of my bibles.

She signed my Modern Art book which I had with me. Her writing is very creative and covers the whole page. What really got to me was her ease in writing my name, as well as hers, in beautiful flowing Chinese. Not the writing of someone ith an illness.

As I had only been there once, I don't know what the food was like in later years.

It was only since I've been here at e-Gullet that I found she had died. I was shocked. Such a free spirit she was.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Jo-mel,

Through "The Modern Art of Chinese Cooking" Barbara Tropp will always be right there in your kitchen with you! That was her style. I have two copies -- just in case one falls apart!

Tropp mentions Irene Kuo in that work and Kuo's "Keys to Chinese Cooking" is a classic. Fuschia Dunlop's recent work on Sichuan food, "Land of Plenty" will burn a little fire in your belly; her research is along the line of Tropp's. Grace Young's "Wisdom from the Chinese Kitchen" has terrific Cantonese recipes and provides cultural context.

Happy eating and cooking,

Andrea

[Min]

For homestyle meals, i like classic 1000 chinese recipes by wendy hobson and chinese cooking made easy by mu tsun lee/wei chuan publishing.Another good read is chinese dim sum by wei chuan publishing.