Foliage

[Gary Marshall]

I don't see asking for a time at quarter of the hour is in anyway requesting special treatment.

If you take it in the context of restaurants only offering on the hour or half past the hour, then it is asking for something outside of their normal operations. Similar to ordering something not on their menu.

it's not requesting special treatment, because you don't know when you call that you are requesting anything out of the ordinary.

if i rang asking for a tasting menu for example, when i know full well it is not normally offered, that is a completely different thing.

i have never seen in any restaurant publicity or web site, 'please note we only offer tables at the hour or half past.'

gary

[tony h]

Foliage is without doubt one of the strongest one star restaurants (and may well be promoted in January)

Please explain more - its at odds with my experience where I thought the food was fairly pedestrain & unexciting

[Scott]

Foliage is without doubt one of the strongest one star restaurants (and may well be promoted in January)

Please explain more - its at odds with my experience where I thought the food was fairly pedestrain & unexciting

To be fair Tony,

I don't think anyone else is questioning the quality of the food.

Myself, I would not be shocked to see it elevated.

[Marlyn4k]

BLH...

I guess rating a restaurant is more contentious than judging an olympic gymnastics final.

What excites? A Carpaccio of Sea Bass that leaps off the plate and slaps you round the face, a bloody orange jelly that tingles in the mouth or a Maitre d'Hotel de Carre that remembers every detail of a distant conversation?

I guess the measure is whether you go home with a smile on your face. In that regard quality with consistency will win out every time.

[SamanthaF]

The intention isn't to give Jay a hard time, simply to establish if anyone actually ever wants or needs a reservation other than on the hour or the half hour. I'd be interested to know if anyone can recall a specific, recent (say in the last 3 months) example.

I have a 1.15 booking for la Trompette this weekend.

[Andy Lynes]

Did you make the booking before or after reading this thread

[SamanthaF]

Did you make the booking before or after reading this thread

Way before.

[fisherman]

I don't see asking for a time at quarter of the hour is in anyway requesting special treatment.

If you take it in the context of restaurants only offering on the hour or half past the hour, then it is asking for something outside of their normal operations. Similar to ordering something not on their menu.

why would tables on the hour and half hour be 'normal operations' surely 'normal operations' should be to offer the customer what they want? and i'm not talking off menu ordering, thats totally different.

i think someones being a little beligerent here, and won't admit they're talking shite

[Andy Lynes]

why would tables on the hour and half hour be 'normal operations' surely 'normal operations' should be to offer the customer what they want?

We've established that there are at least 2 restaurants in London, Foliage and Pearl (formerly QC) that do not offer bookings at quarter past and quarter to the hour. Therefore their reservations are geared for the hour and half past the hour and any other time is going to be outside of the way they have been set up to operate.

Fisherman - I'd ask you to read back carefully over my posts on this thread. When you do, you'll see that I posed the question "So is it the restaurant or the critic that is being unreasonable?" and have attempted to answer it by eliciting opinions and evidence from members (i.e. examples of recently requested quarter past and quarter to the hour reservations).

Can I also ask that you read the section headed "Subject Matter and Decorum" in the eGullet User Agreement and that you contact me directly by PM if you have any further questions about it or any of the policies that govern this site.

[Romaney O'Malley]

sorry to butt in here but I think this is slightly out of hand. Is it really such a big deal if they won't take quarter past? If they only took bookings on the hour and half hour and everything else was great then who cares?

I can't believe it would inconvenience a customer that much for the sake of 15 minutes. I don't know the same can be said for the restaurant (and I mean literally I don't actually know if it would so am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt if they refuse)

Jay's point I can understand which was (correct me if I'm wrong here) that the restaurant wasn't full (somewhat negating the benefit of the doubt I would have prevously given them) and if at the end of it you feel like you've done a day's work and it wasn't spectacular then you're going to be pissed off. And you won't go back.

Please ignore me as usual if necessary

[Basildog]

Jay's point I can understand which was (correct me if I'm wrong here) that the restaurant wasn't full (somewhat negating the benefit of the doubt I would have prevously given them) and if at the end of it you feel like you've done a day's work and it wasn't spectacular then you're going to be pissed off. And you won't go back.

Ahh ,but if the restaurant's policy is to take bookings on the hour or 1/2 hour, they can't take bookings on the 1/4 because they plan to be full !!!

We don't know when were not going to be full, so the policy has to be in effect all the time, no?

For the record i have 7 bookings for 1/4 past or to over the next 2 weeks, but i'm not high end dining

[Romaney O'Malley]

Fair point basildog.

I suppose what I am trying to say is the booking time thing is not a big deal for me as a customer when we're talking about 15 minute increments. However I would be annoyed if there was lots of hard work involved in other areas on top of this, lots of fussing about recooking part of the table's meals for example and yet overall it was an ordinary experience.

If the meal was great then you're not going to hear from me about booking time (full restaurant or not), taking credit card numbers, cancellation fee policies etc etc. etc. But if you do all those things and then it's below average - you're going to hear from me about all of them

I must be one of those wholly inconsistent annoying customers that you know and love so much

[Jamsie]

I think what Jay's saying is that if you're spending that kind of money at a top end restaurant then it shouldn't be such a pain in the arse to do so.

[Basildog]

If the meal was great then you're not going to hear from me about booking time (full restaurant or not), taking credit card numbers, cancellation fee policies etc etc. etc. But if you do all those things and then it's below average - you're going to hear from me about all of them   

Which i think is Jay's review in a nutshell

[SamanthaF]

but i'm not high end dining

Don't put yourself down Bas. You're quite high up the hill at the hotel

[jayrayner]

I think what Jay's saying is that if you're spending that kind of money at a top end restaurant then it shouldn't be such a pain in the arse to do so.

You know I think the man's got it. Or at least looking at first sentence of my piece - 'Why does eating in some expensive restaurants have to be such a hassle?' - I think he has.

I return to my first intervention. I thought the argument in my review had been pretty clear, but as the discussion over what the hell I was going on about extends to its second page, I have to conclude that it wasn't.

Note to self: try harder next time.

BTW - anybody fancy the ROKA bet again?

[Andy Lynes]

Jay, I think the review was crystal clear and that everyone understood where you were coming from. In trying to isolate one small and fairly unimportant issue from it, we seem to have been hugely successful in making a mountain out of a molehill - so much so that its almost like the old days.

I think we can summise the following:

some expensive restaurants make life harder for themselves and their customers than they should

most people might like to dine at quarter past or quarter to the hour at some point in their lives, whereas a small minority of one probably wont

internet discussion sites - phew!

nobody knows anything ( © William Goldman)

[Basildog]

internet discussion sites - phew!

Yeah, but what else would we do with our time???

[Marlyn4k]

Just had a great lunch at Foliage. They were busy and appear to be taking the positives from Jay's review magnanimously.

Edited August 25, 2004 by Marlyn4k (log)

[Winot]

Marlyn,

I've just gone back and re-read the review and I think you're being vicariously over-sensitive. The reviewer praises the chef and the food to the skies. He was clearly unhappy with the service, however, and it's difficult to see how we're going to come to a conclusion about that in this forum if the reviewer and restaurant are giving two different stories. I have to say however that the pros in the review would encourage this neutral observer to visit the restaurant, particularly if (as they say) they are going to take steps to correct the cons.

All the best,

W.

Edit to say that this post referred to Marlyn's post before he edited it.

Edited August 26, 2004 by Winot (log)

[DDarwood]

Having eaten over twenty times at Foliage since it opened, at all times of the year, lunch and dinner, and under three different managers and two chefs, I can state categorically that each visit has been excellent both in terms of food and service.

I do not ask for specific tables, or reservations on the quarter hour, and would be grateful if they prepared my food again if I went to the loo. If they attempted to take away my plate before I had finished, I would ask them not to do so. And if I wanted to wait for a friend before starting to eat, I would ask then to keep my plate warm. All this seems eminently reasonable; to base a large part of a review on dissatisfaction over these issues - as Jay Rayner does - even if they preoccupied his thinking at the table, does a large dis-service to the restaurant and reflects badlly on the reviewer's priorities.

That he expects better service "at these prices" begs the question of how expensive Foliage is. In fact, its set lunch is London's outstanding bargain and its dinner, whilst more expensive, is excellent value for money compared with its London competitors in the one and two Michelin star category.

Gordon Debus, Matthew Thomas and Paul Noll have been excellent restaurant managers, whilst Hywel Jones and Chris Staines have been chefs of outstanding creativity and integrity. Foliage remains in my opinion the best hotel restaurant in the capital.

Edited August 26, 2004 by DDarwood (log)

[tony h]

Having eaten over twenty times at Foliage since it opened, at all times of the year, lunch and dinner, and under three different managers and two chefs, I can state categorically that each visit has been excellent both in terms of food and service.

looks like I'm the poor sod who went on their only off night, ah well

[Suzi Edwards]

I think what Jay's saying is that if you're spending that kind of money at a top end restaurant then it shouldn't be such a pain in the arse to do so.

You know I think the man's got it. Or at least looking at first sentence of my piece - 'Why does eating in some expensive restaurants have to be such a hassle?' - I think he has.

I return to my first intervention. I thought the argument in my review had been pretty clear, but as the discussion over what the hell I was going on about extends to its second page, I have to conclude that it wasn't.

Note to self: try harder next time.

BTW - anybody fancy the ROKA bet again?

You're just teasing me now Jay.

I've read this debate with fascination. Isn't it funny how people hate it when restaurants they like are critisised? If a place is one of the "strongest one stars" I'd expect a darn sight beter service than Jay reports he received.

A journalist like Jay writes reviews to sell newspapers and to give anyone who reads the piece an idea what a restaurant is like. I think he wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't report on the whole experience. After all, it is the whole experience that people eat out for. The vast majority of people in the UK don't eat out very much. Certainly not as much as us on here. Perhaps Jay was actually doing a public service by pointing out the service problems. After all, that's what most people will relate to. I know when people ask me about the places I eat in I always mention the service as everyone understands that. Not everyone cares that the sauce was a little over-reduced or that the foie dish was perfectly harmonious.

[Andy Lynes]

I have removed several of the posts from this thread as there appears to have been some confusion caused by a post that was edited soon after it was made. I will contact those involved by PM to clarify the situation.

[Scott]

I have to say, I'm with andy I don't quite follow how this thread got to where it has.

my summary of the points seems to be:

food good;

service generally good, but can niggle;

front of house perhaps could be more flexible

jay has a review to write

not everyone attaches the same importance to some specific details.

My feeling is that Jay has perhaps overemphasised some things, which to me are not that important. But so what, I wasn't there, I have no idea about what took place - at the time or subsequently.

It's drawing a very long bow to suggest ulterior motives, especially in context of the positives of the review.