Kao Soi

[snowangel]

Let's talk Kao Soi.

I love the stuff. At least I love the stuff you can get in Chieng Mai. I've not had adequate Kao Soi anywhere in the Twin Cities, and we have some fab Thai food.

I had my first Kao Soi at age 9 in Chieng Mai, and our semi-annual trips always included many Kao Soi meals. It is one of my favorite foods. I had it often enough that I'm trusting that my love of this dish is not jaded by any one particular personal experience.

Does anyone make it at home? If so, homemade curry paste or purchased? Advice?

I will try the recipe from Thai Food soon, unless someone else has other advice.

[mamster]

For those who aren't familiar with it, kao soi is the unofficial noodle of Chiang Mai, a bowl of soupy noodle curry, with chicken (or sometimes beef), preserved vegetables, and a nest of crispy fried noodles on top.

Here is my question: what kind of noodles do you buy when you make it? I've tried a few different kinds and they never seem quite right. Please be specific--many different types of noodles are sold under similar names. Thanks!

[Anna N]

For those who aren't familiar with it, kao soi is the unofficial noodle of Chiang Mai, a bowl of soupy noodle curry, with chicken (or sometimes beef), preserved vegetables, and a nest of crispy fried noodles on top.

Thank you, Mamster. Saved me asking the question. Anna N

[snowangel]

Here is my question:  what kind of noodles do you buy when you make it?  I've tried a few different kinds and they never seem quite right.

I've used a purchased chinese egg noodle. When I go to the asian grocery in the next couple of days, I'll get another package and give you both brand name and ingredient list. Said noodles are flat and come in two widths -- one slightly narrower than spaghetti and one slightly narrower than linguine.

Then, tonight, we had dinner at my folks house with Yuares and Somnuk, who are here from Thailand. Yuares was both an undergrad and graduate student under my father at Kasertsat University in Bangkok (Ag Econ) beginning in 1969 (deep history here).

As I described to Yuares the problem I am having with Kao Soi, she suspects that the problem may be the fact that we are not using fresh noodles. Granted the ones I am getting are "fresh" in the sense that they are not dried, but they are in plastic, mass produced.

I'll try and get down to United Noodle soonest to see if I can get truely "fresh" noodles and see if it makes a difference.

On a further note, do you make your own curry paste for this? If so, what are your ingredients/proportions. If you purchase a canned paste, what are you using?

I am on a mission.

Perhaps this mission should wait until Diana, Peter and I redeem our gift certificates for trips to Thailand which we will use at some point during the next school year. I hadn't planned on getting to Chieng Mai, but Yuares promises that she knows a couple of places in Bangkok that have terrific Kao Soi, which is a favorite of hers, as well.

Comments? I have a feeling that this is a passion shared by only the two of us...

[mamster]

I've used the Mae Ploy red curry paste. However, I've never been terribly satisfied with my homemade kao soi and have been meaning to make it a project to produce a really good one.

So, wait, snowangel, what problem are you having?

[snowangel]

I've used the Mae Ploy red curry paste.  However, I've never been terribly satisfied with my homemade kao soi and have been meaning to make it a project to produce a really good one.

So, wait, snowangel, what problem are you having?

Like you, I'm just not satisfied. The noodles aren't quite right, the paste isn't quite right. I don't know. Maybe it's that I'm eating it Minnesota instead of Chieng Mai?

Anyway, my project in the next week is to try and procure "fresh" noodles (not the packaged kind from some plant in Chicago), and try the paste recipe in Thai Food and see what happens. Perhaps I should check out every damned Thai cookbook in the Minneapolis Public Library System (4th largest collection in the country) and compare recipes?

[SEAsianOutpost]

No, you two aren't the only ones with passions for Kao Soi.

I remember that the noodles were curly, which gives them a little more oomph.

If you can find a pasta shop offering fresh curly noodles (good luck!) that's be a good start. The last time I made kao soi (been years now, sadly) I used thick Japanese udon noodles. They were a little too soft, but not too far off.

I don't think any prepared curry will do the trick, since they're all Thai and this dish is really more Burmese. I made the curry from a kao soi recipe in one of my cookbooks (can't recall now which one, but I'll check and get back to you -- I think it may have been Thailand the Beautiful).

Yes, yes, you need the crispy fried onions. And the lime garnish goes without saying -- this is Thai food, after all!

Has anyone ever seen kao soi in an American Thai (or otherwise) restaurant? It is so hard to find anything except central-plains/Bangkok style food in restaurants. Years ago there used to be a Southern Thai restaurant in San Francisco that had some good weird stuff, including those smelly beans that Southern Thais love so.

But Chao Koh closed a long time ago...

So, in a battle of kao soi vs. lakhsa, which would you choose?

- Roger

[snowangel]

So, in a battle of kao soi vs. lakhsa, which would you choose?

Kao soi, without question.

The noodles kind of remind me of a ramen noodle that has not been fried and dried, but perhaps a tidge wider than a ramen noodle.

I've seen "curry noodle soup" on a couple of menus in the U. S., but they were not like the kao soi of Chieng Mai. Come to think of it, the Kao Soi of Bangkok just isn't as good, either.

[SobaAddict70]

Saveur did a feature article on this in their April 1997 issue, so the minute I saw the first reference of this dish in the thread on Laab, I dug out the back issue.

According to the article, there are different types of kao soi within Chiang Mai. The village of Baan Huay Khrai which specializes in kao soi, contains restaurants that have been serving kao soi for at least thirty years:

A pretty girl of 18, named Comtan, showed us how the soup is assembled, and taught me that kao soi comes in more than just a single form:  She dipped a strainer full of noodles into a pot of hot broth and then dumped them into a bowl.  Over this she ladled a stew of chicken meat and scallions, then asked which broth I wanted -- nam kathi, which tasted like the curried coconut-milk that I had tasted in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai, or nam nyo, a spicy pork broth...the condiments this time included pork rinds, salty fish sauce and plum sauce, limes, chopped chiles and onions, bean sprouts and kimchi-like pickled cabbage.

(from ""Looking For Kao Soi", by Jim Gullo, Saveur Magazine, No. 18, April 1997, page 96)

Soba

[snowangel]

Oh, Soba, you are so good.

I have had both versions. Both are better than just about anything I ever ate.

My first Kao Soi was at about age 9 or 10, mid to late 1960's, in Chieng Mai. Before the farangs (other than us) decended. Before Thailand had ever heard of Hilton, Hyatt, cooking schools. When it was still Thailand. As we contemplate a trip to Thailand, I am afraid "to go home."

Edited to add: the former version is my favorite. One of my very, very favorite of all foods. Sigh. Not offered in North Minneapolis.

Edited November 19, 2003 by snowangel (log)

[SobaAddict70]

Thanks.

As Saveur typically does, the article is also accompanied by a list of places to go (and eat) while in Thailand. Keep in mind this list is from six years ago so things may have changed in the interim:

Baan Suan Restaurant

51/3 Sankampaeng Road, Chiang Mai

Hau Soi Chaiyen

Baan Huay Khrai

(located a mile past the village, on the right if coming from Chiang Rai)

(this is the restaurant featured in the article)

Waing Inn

893 Phaholyothin Road, Chiang Rai

Hong Tauw Inn

95/16-17 Nimanhemin Road, Chiang Mai

(Shu Chee Pla is a specialty (fish poached in coconut milk and red curry paste))

Soba

[snowangel]

In the late 60's, early 70's, I don't think the kinds of places at which I ate Kao Soi had names .

Take me to what was the old "bank of Chieng Mai" (where some very near and dear friends lived) and I could find the joint.

The idea of Thailand with Hyatts and Hiltons in places like Hua Hin and Chieng Mai horrify me. What the "tourists" have missed. Oh, my.

[balex]

I am a major Kao Soi addict. There's a restaurant in London called Chiang Mai, that used to do a good version albeit a little oily.

I was in Chiang Mai this summer, and we hit a couple of good places. The crispy noodle bits are quite important. And it is best when done with the meaty bit of the wing.

One of the places also did this very good pork satay with a little cube of pork fat on the end. And crispy cakes of river shrimp with sweet chilli sauce....

I don't recall the names of the places because we were staying with friends who took us everywhere but I can ask them if you want.

My home version uses a ready made red curry paste. I think a key thing is to cook the chicken in the sauce for quite a long time -- so finding a chewy old chicken is necessary.

[SEAsianOutpost]

Okay, I went back to my 15-year-old Lonely Planet guide book and found the place that we went to. It is called Khao Soi Lam Duang, and it is/was on Charoen Rat Road. An earlier recollection of mine was incorrect; they are wheat noodles, but not buckwheat noodles. This place, humble as it was, was litteraly Khao Soi purveyor to the King.

- Roger

[pim]

Kao Soi, do you mean this:

I just made one a week or two ago and wrote down the recipe as someone on another site asked for it. I will PM the recipe if anyone wants it.

When I make Kao Soi at home I use chinese egg noodles, the ones you find at any chiness markets. Anna, perhaps the problem you have with the noodle is not the quality, but how you cook it. The chinese egg noodle (Bah-mi) is packed with so much starch to keep the strands separated that you need to rinse it before cooking (for just a minute or two) in boiling water.

cheers,

Pim

Edited November 19, 2003 by pim (log)

[pim]

The Khao Soi's recipe is now on my blog. Take a look at it if you're interested.

cheers,

Pim

[snowangel]

Thanks, pim. I made it the other day, right after you pm'd me the recipe. I used Maesri curry paste, and next time I will make my own curry paste. David Thompson has a recipe in his Thai Food book; I just may use that paste recipe.

For ease of eating, I boned the legs and thighs before cooking, but cooked the bones in the curry, and just fished out the bones at the end. Next time I might try it with beef (chuck roast of something really tasty).

You have solved the noodle problem. It never occurred to me to rinse the noodles before cooking. It makes all the difference in the world. This is one of the complaints mamster and I had about trying to make this at home -- the noodles.

Thanks again.

[pim]

I'm glad you like it. You're even more of a Thai Northerner than I am so I'm happy you approve of my version.

I have grown quite suspicious of David Thompson's book after Simon and I had a disastrous meal at Nahm a few weeks ago in London. It was not simply bad but thoroughly disappointing. I don't usually complain about the size of dinner bills but that 200 pounds we spent was a real waste (for two set dinners, some desserts and a bottle of wine for 50 quid).

If you had one of khun Kasama's books I would probably go with her recipes instead.

PS.Here is my review of Nahm in case you're interested.

Edited November 25, 2003 by pim (log)

[snowangel]

I think I need to either make my own paste and tinker with it.

Yes, my taste in northern dishes is very northern. We spent quite a bit of time in the north, and when we were in Bangkok, there were other things to eat than southern renditions of northern dishes!