Tandoor cooking and more

[GC++]

So I got myself a tandoor in my back yard.

Now it's the time to start explore the Indian BBQ land.

I had a brief look at the book called (hope I'm not mistaken) Tandoor by Ranjit Rai

Also the guy hwo gave me the tandoor said that before using it fot the first time I should make a sirop-like coating inside the oven ?!

- Does anyone know what kind of sirop should I prepare (Molassa + Water 50/50 - or something else?)

This is to prevent the breads from sticking to the walls of the tandoor.

Then I should fill it with fresh (= not charcoil) woods and burn it for several hours.

- Also - is this the way to do it?

[Suvir Saran]

You could use a litre of Mustard oil, 2-3 lbs of spinach greens, 250 grams of jaggery and cook this till the jaggery is melted and the juice of the greens is out.

Cool and paint the insides of the tandoor with this.

Burn wood to create low heat and burn for several hours, overnight is preferable.

In India they use "kandi" (maybe I have the name wrong) these are cow chips.

I am sure the chefs and restaurant owners here would have more current information for you.

[GC++]

You could use a litre of Mustard oil, 2-3 lbs of spinach greens, 250 grams of jaggery and cook this till the jaggery is melted and the juice of the greens is out.

Cool and paint the insides of the tandoor with this.

Burn wood to create low heat and burn for several hours, overnight is preferable.

In India they use "kandi" (maybe I have the name wrong) these are cow chips.

I am sure the chefs and restaurant owners here would have more current information for you.

Thanks Suvir for the info.

It will be very difficult to get "Mustard oil" and "jaggery" (what is it?) in here.

- If I would to make the coating with the mulasas sirup - any idea of the ratio?

What about books - is the one that I mentioned is good? what about "Indian Grill by Smita Chandra"?

Another thing, I saw in your web-site lamb-chops recipe, is this the same one that I was eatting in Hemant Mathur's restaurant last time I was in NY (they were Superb!!!),

Are they done in a tandoor?

[Pan]

GC++:

Mustard oil is wonderful. I don't know where you are, but if you come in to New York City again, just visit Indian or/and Bangladeshi shops in the area of 26-29 Sts. on Lexington and near 1st Av. and 6th St (Dowel on 1st between 5th and 6th is the best one in the latter area). I'm sure it's possible to mail-order mustard oil, but it's probably easiest and cheapest to wait and get it yourself.

As for jaggery, this is from Merriam-Webster OnLine:

One entry found for jaggery.

Main Entry: jag·gery

Pronunciation: 'ja-g&-rE

Function: noun

Etymology: Portuguese jágara, probably from Malayalam chakkara sugar

Date: 1598

: an unrefined brown sugar made from palm sap

Though jaggery is from palm sap, it's subtle, unlike Malaysian gula melaka (yum!), so I think turbinado sugar would be an acceptable substitute. Do you agree, Suvir?

[GC++]

Thanks for the relpy pan,

Is this close to mulassa or brown-cane-sugar sirup?

I live in Israel where there are just few Indian shops (maybe I can count them on one hand - or even less).

I need another expert advice - with the tandoor oven is the thermometer a must?

any other tips?

[jackal10]

For these purposes you can substitite any good edible oil, such as olive oil for the mustard oil.

You may want to infuse some mustard seeed in it for flavour, but not essential for the coating purpose.

Jaggery is sugar and any sugar, but preferably a brown sugar will substitute. I would not use molasses syrup, since you don't know the concentration,

Its the same principle as seasoning a cast iron pan: essentially you are laquering the inside with the dried on oil.

You need to keep the fire low enough so the oil doesn't catch fire before it permeates the clay and dries.

[Suvir Saran]

For these purposes you can substitite any good edible oil, such as olive oil for the mustard oil.

You may want to infuse some mustard seeed in it for flavour, but not essential for the coating purpose.

Jaggery is sugar and any sugar, but preferably a brown sugar will substitute. I would not use molasses syrup, since you don't know the concentration,

Its the same principle as seasoning a cast iron pan: essentially you are laquering the inside with the dried on oil.

You need to keep the fire low enough so the oil doesn't catch fire before it permeates the clay and dries.

Great post.. says it all...

No Molasses.. brown sugar is just fine.

You can use any other oil.. Mustard oil is used in India for culturtal reasons I guess. Also it has an amazing aroma once burned. Maybe that is why it is commonly used.

The lamb chop recipe on my site is the same as what Hemant uses. We both learned it whilst we trained at Bukhara in New Delhi.

You can email me at chef@suvir.com

I can send you other recipes.

Ranjit Rais book on Tandoori cooking is revered by many Indian chefs. If you have found it, enjoy it. Let us know what you think.

Maybe your local Indian restaurant can help you as well with some recipes. At least you can try... Hope they are not too proprietary. Let them know you are only doing this for pleasure.

Enjoy your tandoor. Keep us posted on your indulgences with it. Please.

[Matthew Grant]

Following on from this, anybody know where I can get a Tandoor for domestic (preferably outdoor) use in the UK? HOw much should I expect to pay?

[jackal10]

Following on from this, anybody know where I can get a Tandoor for domestic (preferably outdoor) use in the UK? HOw much should I expect to pay?

The Tandoor Site describes a person who built his own round a liner, and recommends

TANDOORI CLAY OVEN CO. LTD

164A DUKES RD

LONDON

W3 0SL

clayoven@lineone.net

Tel: +44 (0) 208 896 2696

Fax: +44 (0) 208 896 2686

I find a french bread/pizza oven better and more versatile. I bought mine from

WOOD FIRED PIZZA OVENS Co

MR Mc DONALD Ian and Grant

72 Ladbrooke Drive

Potters Bar

Hertfordshire ENG - 1 QW

ENGLAND

Tel : (0044)-1707-85-28-53

Fax : (0044)-1707-64-78-02

Four Grandmere[

Edited May 5, 2003 by jackal10 (log)

[Suvir Saran]

How are your adventures with the new Tandoor coming along GC++?

Made anything yet? How did they come out?

The Tandoor I have in our deck needs a lot of coal and takes a good amount of time to get heated up. That time and heat is necessary in my book to get to a point where the tandoor becomes so much more interesting to use than a generic outdoor grill. When I cook in the dead of winter, I find coming to that point a challenge. Invariably the few times we use it in the winter, have been times the weather has tried to play with us. Snow, rain etc... but we have never given up.

What kind of Seekhs do you have? Seekhs are the skewers one uses in a Tandoor. Do you have Seekhs with a piece of metal that will keep the meats and veggies from dropping into the coal? Do you have a Seekh that has a hook on the end? This is the one used to get breads out of the tandoor. Then there are those seekhs that have a small flat end, this helps scrape the side of the breads to help get it loose. I am sure you have all of these, but I just wondered.

How are you finding the Tandoor as a new gadget of sorts? Is it everything you wished for at least at this early point?

There are many in this forum that have restaurants which have tandoors, I am sure you could get plenty of help and advice here. I am afraid I am no expert in grilling in the tandoor. I end up being the one that marinades the meats and veggies, that prepares the garnishes and readies the dips. I almost never handle the cooking. I must admit, just 2-3 years ago, I was very afraid of it. I am now not afraid, but far from being even remotely experienced with it. I have made breads, removed them, but breads are something I hope I can work more with. Grilling the meats is easy... at least the handling of them.... but with them, you need to have an eye for when to stop cooking.

Another question for you, do you have a lid for the top of the tandoor?

Did it come with any instructions? Did the vendor offer to assist you if you needed help? How has that part of the purchase been? Do you feel the vendor has given you support?

[Bill Klapp]

Suvir: I never received an answer to an old question, which is this: I do not have a tandoor, but I do have a wood-fired pizza oven, which gives me a super-hot terra cotta cooking surface. Do you think it will work for nan and other tandoori classics? If so, are there any issues I should be aware of? For instance, the oven generates a very dry heat which causes quick evaporation. A problem or a good thing vis a vis the tandoor? Thanks!

[Suvir Saran]

Suvir:  I never received an answer to an old question, which is this:  I do not have a tandoor, but I do have a wood-fired pizza oven, which gives me a super-hot terra cotta cooking surface.  Do you think it will work for nan and other tandoori classics?  If so, are there any issues I should be aware of?  For instance, the oven generates a very dry heat which causes quick evaporation.  A problem or a good thing vis a vis the tandoor?  Thanks!

Bill, I need to work with one before I give you an intelligent answer.

Till then, I feel there is no reason it should not.

How does the heat on the surface of the oven differ from heat in the center?

Have you ever tried making tandoori breads? I feel you should not have any trouble, but again, I have never worked with Indian recipes in a wood-fire pizza oven, I know a friend that makes good pitas in them. I should assume it should work similarly for naans and rotis.

The meats should work fine as well. If you can create a stand on which the seekhs(skewers) could be placed, I am sure you should have no trouble. I would think the key would be to have the marinades and other essentials of the recipes to be in true form to what we do in India, but for the rest, your oven should work fine.

We have some restaurant owners and chefs who visit and contribute to this forum, I am sure they could give us more intelligent feedback to your querry. I hope we can get them to visit the forum and this thread in particular soon. I am as curious as you. I shall call Hemant Mathur, the tandoori chef at Diwan in NYC... and see if he has any feedback that can help us with this.

[Bill Klapp]

Suvir: Thanks. The heat in the center is significantly hotter than on the floor of the oven, which is what allows the top to cook quickly without burning the bottom of the crust.

[Suvir Saran]

Suvir:  Thanks.  The heat in the center is significantly hotter than on the floor of the oven, which is what allows the top to cook quickly without burning the bottom of the crust.

Bill, that is exactly what I wanted to hear. I think you should be able to play with your oven and get closely similar results.

But then again, those that have worked with both, could tell us differently.

Do you have recipes for some Tandoori meats?

If you want, you can email me (chef@suvir.com), I can send you at least a couple of recipes to begin with.

[GC++]

How are your adventures with the new Tandoor coming along GC++?

Made anything yet?  How did they come out?

The Tandoor I have in our deck needs a lot of coal and takes a good amount of time to get heated up.  That time and heat is necessary in my book to get to a point where the  tandoor becomes so much more interesting to use than a generic outdoor grill.  When I cook in  the dead of winter, I find coming to that point a challenge.  Invariably the few times we use it in the winter, have been times the weather has tried to play with us.  Snow, rain etc... but we have never given up.

What kind of Seekhs do you have?  Seekhs are the skewers one uses in a Tandoor.  Do you have Seekhs with a piece of metal that will keep the meats and veggies from dropping into the coal?  Do you have a Seekh that has a hook on the end?  This is the one used to get breads out of the tandoor.  Then there are those seekhs that have a small flat end, this helps scrape the side of the breads to help get it loose.  I am sure you have all of these, but I just wondered. 

How are you finding the Tandoor as a new gadget of sorts?  Is it everything you wished for at least at this early point? 

There are many in this forum that have restaurants which have tandoors, I am sure you could get plenty of help and advice here.  I am afraid I am no expert in grilling in  the tandoor.  I end up being the one that marinades  the meats and veggies, that prepares the garnishes and readies the dips.  I almost never handle the cooking.  I must admit, just 2-3 years ago, I was very afraid of it.  I am now not afraid, but far from being even remotely experienced with it. I have made breads, removed them, but breads are something I hope I can work more with.  Grilling the meats is easy... at least the handling of them.... but with them, you need to have an eye for when to stop cooking. 

Another question for you, do you have a lid for the top of the tandoor?

Did  it come with any instructions?  Did the vendor offer to assist you if you needed help?  How has that part of the purchase been? Do you feel the vendor has given you support?

Suvir, Thanks for trying to help (little me )

Until now I have made the first try with the tandoor (not counting the time that I just burned fresh woods to prepare the tandoor - which also was kind of strange as it ripped some of the tandoor wall's coating?!?)

I followed two recipes of "Tandoor" book (1) 'Quick fix' Tandoori chicken (one full chicken skinless) and (2) Green Sabja Chicken (which I used Chicken thies boanless and skinless as needed).

I started with half a kilo (about one pound) of coal and burned it for 25 minutes.

I got my Tandoor oven from a friend that came back from re-location (that's the word high-tech people here call when their company asks them to move to another country for some years) in India.

Also I got some 30 Seekhs (rusty which I tried to clean and oil) - two lengths all are with hook at the other side of the pointed edge.

In the book I saw the other Seekhs for the breads (sorry I don't have them - yet?).

This first try was very close to catastrofic - at start I tried putting the Seekhs with the pointed side down and the chicken fell on the coal after not a long time. Then I tried to get it out and put it in another Seekh with the hook down and the pointed edge sticking out from the tandoor.

I think That the major mistake was that the heat wasn't sufficient to "close" the meat.

It turned out that those three seekhs were some 40 minutes in the tandoor and weren't ready - we ended taking it out and putting it in the home oven under the grill for 5 minutes and it came done.

I don't have any instructions with it, I don't know the vendor (as it was given by a friend who took it from India).

Now the questions:

a) If you use full chicken - do you tie it (the legs).

b) how do you keep the meat from falling down either on the coal (if the pointed edge down) or stack on the hook (if the hook is down)?

c)without a thermoprobe(?) - what is the way to know if the heat is sufficient?

d) I don't have lids (not for the down part and for the top part) - what should I use, when should I use it?

I think this is enough with the sharing of a traumatic experience.

[Suvir Saran]

There are Seekhs that have a square piece of metal several inches above the tip on the bottom end. This small square of metal keeps items being grilled from falling into the coal.

Do you have these Seekhs?

I would use a lot more than just a pound of coal. Will ask Hemant and report back to you about how much you ought to use. I am sure others here would have chimed in before then.

I have used the lid I have with the tandoor to get the heat going. It helps make the process quicker. You could use any metal plate, large bowl or something metallic that can seal the tandoor from the top. It helps. Also if this is going to be left outdoors, the cover is a good tool to keep the tandoor safe from the elements.

Will add more later. I am sorry your experiences with tandoor are not all fun just yet. Hopefully our members will be able to share their own experiences with you and make your future with the Tandoor more fruitful and fun.

[prasad2]

Now the questions:

a) If you use full chicken - do you tie it (the legs).

b) how do you keep the meat from falling down either on the coal (if the pointed edge down) or stack on the hook (if the hook is down)?

c)without a thermoprobe(?) - what is the way to know if the heat is sufficient?

d) I don't have lids (not for the down part and for the top part) - what should I use, when should I use it?

I think this is enough with the sharing of a traumatic experience.

Congratulations on your new Tandoor and your new venture on BBQ meats Indian Style.

a) Never have to tie your chicken.

b) Usually the hook is to hang your skewer after your cooking is done. Meats once pierced should never fall of the skewer. Skewer should be clean and bone dry before you pierce any meats. The only challenge any body might have is for mince kababs like seekh kabab. These minced kabab skewening needs some experience for regular skewers. You also get skewers with stoppers, so these kababs do not fall off.

c) most of these Tandoors come with thermoprobe and the old tandoors never came with one. One gets better by experience.

d) if you do not have kids for the top part, it is still manageble, buy a pizza round tray that should work or a you find covers of these stock pots where they have covers with handles.

Down part is a problem if you don't have one. A temporary solution is bundle up silver foil and stuff it to close or open to get more heat.

This should be fun experience and not traumatic at all and then we will talk about making some fresh breads like Nan, Rotis and filled Nans....

[GC++]

Congratulations on your new Tandoor and your new venture on BBQ meats Indian Style.

a) Never have to tie your chicken.

b) Usually the hook is to hang your skewer after your cooking is done. Meats once pierced should never fall of the skewer. Skewer should be clean and bone dry before you pierce any meats. The only challenge any body might have is for mince kababs like seekh kabab. These minced kabab skewening needs some experience for regular skewers. You also get skewers  with stoppers, so these kababs do not fall off.

c) most of these Tandoors come with thermoprobe and the old tandoors never came with one. One gets better by experience.

d) if you do not have kids for the top part, it is still manageble, buy a pizza round tray that should work or a you find covers of these stock pots where they have covers with handles.

Down part is a problem if you don't have one. A temporary solution is bundle up silver foil and stuff it to close or open to get more heat.

This should be fun experience and not traumatic at all and then we will talk about making some fresh breads like Nan, Rotis and filled Nans....

Thanks prasad2,

I am going to try this shortly.

I thought the best way to keep the seekh from getting rusty is to oil them then before using I wipe the oil off - in order to make it "bone dry" I think I will have to wash it - is there a better way?

Does the high heat makes the meat contracting to the seekhs so it won't fall? or is it somthing else?

With the bread - I still need that pillow-like thing and fire-prof hand cover to use , what about the Tandoor walls brown sugar sirup to prevent the bread from sticking? what ratio of sugar water ? is this important/must?

I will keep you posted.

[biggamelv]

Anyone still looking for info on tandoors?

I've had one for a couple of years and really have studied it and learned quite a bit, so let me know.

biggame

Las Vegas

[Monica Bhide]

biggame -- why dont you start a new thread.. would love to hear about your experience in using the tandoor