What Type of Flour is "De Farine" in French Patisserie books?

[DomDeFranco]

Hi Guys,

 

I ordered a couple of French patisserie books (In French!) and I can't speak French. I've noticed that in some recipes rather than specifying a type of flour (T45/55 etc) they only list flour (de farine).

 

Does anyone know what type of flour they mean when they just say flour? I assume this must be a standard thing in French recipe books.

 

Thanks,

 

Dom

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by DomDeFranco (log)

[AlaMoi]

translates as "flour"

you're into the rabbit hole of multiple definitions, ages, language usage and translations.

 

"patisserie" in the strictest use is a "pastry shop"  - that rules out bread, AP, etc, flours and down to cake flour aka very soft low protein/gluten stuff.

but.... "patisserie" in the modern world is more of a "sandwich shop"

 

so . . one could ramble down the "it depends" path - it depends on what you are baking/making . . .

in my personal 'lived there done that' experience - European and USA flours in the general sense are not similar.

first there's the wheat - then there's the grind/refinement....

 

but, iffin' your making pastry type stuff, go with cake flour.

otherwise AP

unless you're making bread/bread style rolls - then bread flour

 

and don't be surprised if the liquid amounts are like "wtf over?"

grind and refinement make a huge difference in hydration.

[Duvel]

You can use whatever works for you at a proper T45 substitute: you want a soft, very fine milled (think 00-000) and low protein flour. I assume for most of the recipes, bleached and non-enriched will work best.

 

14 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

patisserie" in the modern world is more of a "sandwich shop"

Not in France, though …

[DomDeFranco]

35 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

translates as "flour"

you're into the rabbit hole of multiple definitions, ages, language usage and translations.

 

"patisserie" in the strictest use is a "pastry shop"  - that rules out bread, AP, etc, flours and down to cake flour aka very soft low protein/gluten stuff.

but.... "patisserie" in the modern world is more of a "sandwich shop"

 

so . . one could ramble down the "it depends" path - it depends on what you are baking/making . . .

in my personal 'lived there done that' experience - European and USA flours in the general sense are not similar.

first there's the wheat - then there's the grind/refinement....

 

but, iffin' your making pastry type stuff, go with cake flour.

otherwise AP

unless you're making bread/bread style rolls - then bread flour

 

and don't be surprised if the liquid amounts are like "wtf over?"

grind and refinement make a huge difference in hydration.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

I'm based in the UK, so sourcing the right type of flour wouldn't be a huge hassle. It's pretty rare in English recipes where they just list flour in a recipe without telling you what type, but i've been looking at French recipes online as well and this seems to be a thing.

 

The reason I asked was that i noticed some recipes state to use T45 and some T55 and others just flour (farine) so I thought there must be some convention in France that if you just state "flour" then it is a specific type, but perhaps not.

 

And yeah, because we all have different types of wheat and grinds and classifications etc, translating baking recipes can be a tricky task.

19 minutes ago, Duvel said:

You can use whatever works for you at a proper T45 substitute: you want a soft, very fine milled (think 00-000) and low protein flour. I assume for most of the recipes, bleached and non-enriched will work best.

 

Not in France, though …

So when a recipe states just flour in France it's usually for T45 or are you thinking that because it's in a patisserie book?

 

For most recipes you can take a pretty good guess at the type of flour but in this case i'm actually researching into choux pastry recipes and i've noticed different chefs using all kinds of different flours.

 

I thought it must be some sort of convention or something but perhaps not.

 

Thanks  

Edited April 13, 2022 by DomDeFranco (log)

[DomDeFranco]

Ah sorry, I've just realised I didn't specify that these recipes are in the same book. So in one book they'll have De Farine T45, De Farine T55 and just De Farine and i was wondering what the De Farine on it's own is?

[AlaMoi]

try here.

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/51263/what-are-flour-types-t45-t55-t65-t150-type-0-or-type-00-magic-enzy-flour-rye-flour-t1150

[Duvel]

8 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

try here.

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/51263/what-are-flour-types-t45-t55-t65-t150-type-0-or-type-00-magic-enzy-flour-rye-flour-t1150

The “arcticle” seems to be more of a promotional piece. 
 

It also confuses the milling/processing grade (typology based on ash content or how

much of the mineral rich outer bran has been removed) with the fineness of the milling/sieving. French flours for pâtisserie are soft and fine milled, so a lower ash content (T45) and a fine milling (00) coincide, but are independent. Think atta flour …

 

 

[Duvel]

10 hours ago, DomDeFranco said:

So when a recipe states just flour in France it's usually for T45 or are you thinking that because it's in a patisserie book?

It is at least the most common. T55 is already considered entering the bread flours (think baguette).

 

There will be instances where pâtisserie items use T55, but as you rightfully said you might be able to indentify those by the desired structure of your product. Also, sweet items that fall under the viennoiserie category employ frequently stronger flours (though technically viennoiserie technically falls under boulangerie, so might not be part of your books).