Flavors in Chinese Food

[Susanwusan]

Hi, I made some pork meatballs in sauce with noodles and veg.  Someone commented that it wasn't very flavourful, admittedly I did underseason, but I think they were expecting a zap of taste of some sort.  Is all Chinese cooking strongly flavoured with something, or salty, or can it be more plain?

[liuzhou]

  On 8/18/2021 at 9:11 PM, Susanwusan said:

Hi, I made some pork meatballs in sauce with noodles and veg.  Someone commented that it wasn't very flavourful, admittedly I did underseason, but I think they were expecting a zap of taste of some sort.  Is all Chinese cooking strongly flavoured with something, or salty, or can it be more plain?

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It would help if you said what the sauce was.

Chinese cooking is not all anything. Like most cuisines it has both strongly flavoured and mild dishes. Saltiness should be balanced. Over or under-seasoning would be equally bad.

Edited August 19, 2021 by liuzhou
typo (log)

[Susanwusan]

Thanks, I thought as much - It's nice to know for sure.  I think they were suffering from the English-people-takeaway syndrome.  I don't know much about Chinese cuisine, but I have gleaned an impression over the years and the recipe I chose was a proper Chinese one.

[liuzhou]

  On 8/19/2021 at 5:25 AM, Susanwusan said:

Thanks, I thought as much - It's nice to know for sure.  I think they were suffering from the English-people-takeaway syndrome.  I don't know much about Chinese cuisine, but I have gleaned an impression over the years and the recipe I chose was a proper Chinese one.

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Is it a secret?

[Susanwusan]

Thanks for the laugh.  I had edited it with the recipe but obviously hadn't done it properly.  It was lion's head meatballs from the woksoflife website.  I reduced the five spice and oyster sauce amounts but the rest was basically the same.  Also, I used a noodle that looked lovely in the packet but by the time it was time to serve, they'd become like stringy wallpaper paste!   Back to egg noodles next time.

[liuzhou]

This one?

[Duvel]

  On 8/19/2021 at 8:08 AM, Susanwusan said:

I reduced the five spice and oyster sauce

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I assume you are referring to this recipe.

 

If you leave out part of the essential aromatics (five spice) and the umami component (oyster sauce), you eliminate significantly the depth and intensity of the dish. There is little question something might be missing then …

 

My question would be why you choose to preemptively mute the dish - was there any specific intention to modify a recipe you haven’t made before ? 

 

I’d give the recipe another try, and if you want a bit more oomph, add a tiny pinch of sugar and some larger pinch MSG and your “someone”* will not complain …
 

*is that the same one complaining about the Italian meatballs ? 

[Duvel]

  On 8/19/2021 at 8:39 AM, liuzhou said:

This one?

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You beat me to it 😉

[liuzhou]

  On 8/19/2021 at 8:41 AM, Duvel said:

You beat me to it 😉

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Don't I always? 😂

 

If it is that recipe, it isn't very authentic. (I've never been impressed by that website). As they say 

 

  Quote

Lion’s Head is also a classic dish in Huaiyang cuisine, ... ... representing the culinary traditions of Eastern China and primarily Jiangsu Province

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but oyster sauce is Cantonese and not at all traditional in Lion's Head Meatballs. Neither is 5-spice powder. This is a heavily American-Chinese orientated recipe. Pork shoulder is all wrong - they are made from pork belly.

 

They are usually served in a broth. I've never seen them with noodles.

 

I'd like to know what noodles she used that turned to wallpaper paste, and how she cooked them, but I'm afraid to ask; it took a lot of effort to find out what the recipe might be! But noodles turning to paste just means they were overcooked.

[Duvel]

  On 8/19/2021 at 9:15 AM, liuzhou said:

 

  Quote

Lion’s Head is also a classic dish in Huaiyang cuisine, ... ... representing the culinary traditions of Eastern China and primarily Jiangsu Province

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but oyster sauce is Cantonese and not at all traditional in Lion's Head Meatballs. Neither is 5-spice powder. This is a heavily American-Chinese orientated recipe. Pork shoulder is all wrong - they are made from pork belly.

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I agree - it is a bit of a unusual combo, but I still think it will work nicely. For me it has a kind of Teochew vibe to it, and maybe thats where the connection to American-chinese cuisine comes in. For me, I do like some oyster sauce in my meat balls. At least from that the recipe it should come out tasty.
 

Fully with you on the meat as well - the fattier, the better (and the more flavorful).

 

  On 8/19/2021 at 9:15 AM, liuzhou said:

They are usually served in a broth. I've never seen them with noodles.

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I panfry, then steam and finally thicken the resulting sauce with cornstarch. Served over greens.

Noodles seem odd indeed - @Susanwusan: they are not mentioned in the recipe, are they ?

[liuzhou]

 

  On 8/19/2021 at 9:52 AM, Duvel said:

maybe thats where the connection to American-chinese cuisine comes in. For me, I do like some oyster sauce in my meat balls. At least from that the recipe it should come out tasty.

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I am not objecting to American-Chinese cuisine and I'm sure the result would be tasty, but Susan did say the recipe was "real Chinese". It isn't, if you define 'real Chinese' as how it is made in China, which I think was her meaning..

For a more "real", traditional recipe see Fuchsia Dunlop's Land of Fish And RIce (eG-friendly Amazon.com link).

 

 

[Susanwusan]

1.  You are both right about the recipe in question.

2.  It did look more convincingly like a genuine Chinese recipe than some I've come across.

3.  Is there an authentic lion's head meatball recipe out there without having to buy a book, or is there no such thing as a lion's head meatball in China? 

4.  There was a reason for toning down the flavour - I won't bore you with it.

5.  There is a connection to the Italian meatball situation. 

6.  Noodles were used as rice was to be used the next day.

7.  The packet instruction was to put them in boiling water for a few minutes, but they were sitting in the colander for a few more minutes before serving.    https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/sainsburys-udon-noodles-quick-to-cook-300g

[liuzhou]

  On 8/19/2021 at 12:32 PM, Susanwusan said:

1.  You are both right about the recipe in question.

2.  It did look more convincingly like a genuine Chinese recipe than some I've come across.

3.  Is there an authentic lion's head meatball recipe out there without having to buy a book, or is there no such thing as a lion's head meatball in China? 

4.  There was a reason for toning down the flavour - I won't bore you with it.

5.  There is a connection to the Italian meatball situation. 

6.  Noodles were used as rice was to be used the next day.

7.  The packet instruction was to put them in boiling water for a few minutes, but they were sitting in the colander for a few more minutes before serving.    https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/sainsburys-udon-noodles-quick-to-cook-300g

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1. Thought so.
2. Maybe, but it's American-Chinese

3. As I already said, Lion's Head Meatballs are definitely a thing in China. Just not that recipe.

4. Good.

5. OK

6. Haha! Here in China we eat rice every day! But not with meat balls. We don't eat them with noodles either.
7. The instructions do say "To cook on the hob. Add the noodles to boiling water for 1 to 2 min, drain and serve immediately." My stress. Also, those are Japanese noodles.

 

[Duvel]

This recipe looks decent. It uses what I would consider the right cooking sequence of shallow frying & steaming. I would add a pinch MSG to up the umami, but that’s just me …

 

Regarding the Udon noodles: I do like them a lot, and can see them working here (although, as @liuzhou has rightfully pointed out, they are Japanese). They are, however, just made from flour and water, and the quick-boil ones are actually just put into the boiling water to heat through and soften. They disintegrate very quickly, especially if you expect a cooking behaviour of Italian pasta, for example, and overcook by even 30 seconds. I think egg noodles are more forgiving, but the texture of perfectly cooked Udon is lovely.

 

If I may add my two cents: I would not worry too much about the authenticity (just as in the Italian case). If you aim for -1.5% saltiness in your protein, and adjust the sauce after cooking to your liking you should be all set. And if that “someone” complains again he better be someone special or prepare his/her better dish next time him/herself 😉

[liuzhou]

  On 8/19/2021 at 2:32 PM, Duvel said:

This recipe looks decent.

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Hmmm.The three tablespoons of sugar seems widely excessive. Looking through my Chinese language books, no recipe has near as much. In fact, most have no sugar.

 

Same with the three large eggs. Few recipes use eggs, at all. That sounds like a lion's omelette!

 

And not one of my recipes suggests steaming them. They all simmer them in a broth.

[Duvel]

  On 8/20/2021 at 5:02 AM, liuzhou said:

 

Hmmm.The three tablespoons of sugar seems widely excessive. Looking through my Chinese language books, no recipe has near as much. In fact, most have no sugar.

 

Same with the three large eggs. Few recipes use eggs, at all. That sounds like a lion's omelette!

 

And not one of my recipes suggests steaming them. They all simmer them in a broth.

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Maybe there is more that one school of thought for this ..? 

[liuzhou]

  On 8/20/2021 at 6:13 AM, Duvel said:

Maybe there is more that one school of thought for this ..? 

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Indeed. Yangzhou lion's heads are slightly different from the Shanghai version (mostly in the way they are served), but neither are steamed. Or contain eggs.

Edited August 20, 2021 by liuzhou (log)

[Duvel]

  On 8/20/2021 at 6:20 AM, liuzhou said:

 

Indeed. Yangzhou lion's heads are slightly different from the Shanghai version (mostly in the way they are served), but neither are steamed. Or contain eggs.

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At least according to the cited article, both are fine …

 

There are three cooking methods – boiling, steaming, and stewing.

 

1. Mince the lean and fat meat and blend. Add chopped leeks, ginger, a spoonful of sugar and two eggs. Stir.

 

… but at the end, wouldn’t you agree that probably there are many small variations around the general LHM theme ? If you find time, maybe you can give the OP a quick translation of a recipe you deem the most authentic and then she is well equipped with a bandwidth of options should her “someone” challenge her food again …

Edited August 20, 2021 by Duvel (log)

[liuzhou]

  On 8/20/2021 at 6:38 AM, Duvel said:

At least according to the cited article, both are fine …

 

There are three cooking methods – boiling, steaming, and stewing.

 

1. Mince the lean and fat meat and blend. Add chopped leeks, ginger, a spoonful of sugar and two eggs. Stir.

 

… but at the end, wouldn’t you agree that probably there are many small variations around the general LHM theme ? If you find time, maybe you can give the OP a quick translation of a recipe you deem the most authentic and then she is well equipped with a bandwidth of options should her “someone” challenge her food again …

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I have contacted by PM her with a recipe.

[Duvel]

  On 8/20/2021 at 6:43 AM, liuzhou said:

 
I have contacted by PM her with a recipe.

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Could you share an approximate version here as well, to conclude the topic ?

[liuzhou]

  On 8/20/2021 at 6:45 AM, Duvel said:

Could you share an approximate version here as well, to conclude the topic ?

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Will do later. Not at home right now.