Grinding Coffee

[snowangel]

I love my husband of almost 22 years. We have survived many, many things -- unemployment, self-employment, three kids, disabled child. But coffee is becoming a problem.

Gem that he is, he insists on getting up every morning and making the coffee. Background is that we have a very substandard and very small grinder (soon to be replaced) grinder, so the coffee just plain isn't strong enough for me. In a pinch, he will admit that it is " a little weak."

So, I suggest that I take my freshly and home roasted beans, and grind an appropriate quantity at night (two batches), but them in a strange black glass jar that I own, and he can simply use this to make coffee in the morning. Plop them in the filter, add water, and push "on."

He insists that the quality of the ground beans, by sitting in a sealed, black jar for less than 12 hours, will deteriorate enough that we will be dissatisfied (as opposed to drinking weak coffee.

Comments on grinding that far (less than 12 hours) in advance of brewing? I am currently using my new Phillips thermal drip (which worked great on the one occasion that I ground the two rounds of beans?

[JAZ]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why can't he grind two batches in the morning, if he's so concerned about freshness?

I often grind my coffee the night before, and except for the aroma, don't notice any difference (and it's not that the ground coffee doesn't smell great; but you don't get that blast of volatile aromatics that comes right at the moment of grinding).

[snowangel]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why can't he grind two batches in the morning, if he's so concerned about freshness?

He states it's because of "time", but methinks it may be because I suggested this would be a good idea?

It boiled down to a discussion of "how much is lost" by pre-grinding. Enough said.

Edited January 25, 2003 by snowangel (log)

[Fat Guy]

In my opinion, based on very casual comparisons, there's a noticeable aroma loss from pre-grinding that kicks in after just a few minutes. After that, the difference between one and twelve hours isn't all that great. It sounds to me like when you upgrade your equipment you should be able to come up with a workflow solution that allows for grinding on the spot. A burr grinder like the Solis Maestro, for example, can be pre-loaded with beans so that all you do in the morning is turn the dial and wait a few seconds. Then you dump the ground coffee into whatever brewing machine you're using and you have coffee a few minutes later.

[JAZ]

A burr grinder like the Solis Maestro, for example, can be pre-loaded with beans so that all you do in the morning is turn the dial and wait a few seconds.

Oh, the Solis Maestro...my dream grinder. Snowangel, if you are planning on a new grinder, this is the one.

[Fat Guy]

It's only your dream grinder because you don't have it. After you have one for a few days, your dream grinder will become a Rossi RR45. It never ends.

[snowangel]

Boy, did I get lucky. Visited my cousin today, and admiring her Solis Maestro. She said "I got two for Xmas. Want one?"

So, bliss will return to our household

[Fat Guy]

Want to trade cousins?

[snowangel]

Want to trade cousins?

Not a chance.

It's loaded and ready to go for tomorrow morning (with beans I roasted; my first batch). I'll get the strong coffee I so need...

[Fat Guy]

Make sure you set the grind while the machine is empty; otherwise you can damage it. Personally, I find it's best to grind a bit finer than the machine recommends for a given application -- by one or two notches. Also be sure to give the machine a few good taps on the side before you remove the bin. This will help shake loose the extra gram or two of coffee that remains in the works after you grind. Use the timer knob on the side, not the button on the front. There's no reason to stand there like an idiot with your hand on the button the entire time it's grinding.

[snowangel]

Thanks for the advice. I did set grind before I filled it; will advice husband of same.

But, one of the two of us (probably him; I sleep in) would have stood there like an idiot. Post-it note to go on grinder ASAP.

[torakris]

OOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Now I want one too!

The grinder, not the husband (already got one of those!)

[William Bitterman]

If you want great coffee in the morning, or any other time for that matter, you have to make some sacrifices-get up a few minutes earlier, and roast and grind your beans. A good friend of mine is a Venezuelan coffee wholesaler, and that is part of his routine every day, and almost every cup. My favorite chef, Weinoo, also roasts his own beans. And of course he brews it in a French press coffeemaker. That is a dedication to great coffe that few are willing to make, but it makes all the difference. The true essence of home-brewed coffee beans can only be tasted when you roast 'em. And the jolt...

[phaelon56]

I recently spent a day visiting an online espresso buddy, Steve Doxsie, owner of Olympic Coffee in Bremerton WA. I'm gradually testing the waters and researching in anticipation of a possible career shift into the coffee business.

Steve was kind enough to spend most of a day mentoring me, sharing ideas and discussing many apsects of the business including roasting, brewing and espresso production. I have long had the impression that the reason Starbucks coffee is so frequently bitter is due primarily to their using a greater weight/quantity of coffee per ounce of water than their competition. If I recall correctly, I read this in an article several years back in Consumer Reports magazine. They assessed the coffee offerings from Peet's, Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts and a few other chains. Their contention was that Starbucks uses more coffee per ounce of water than anyone else. Part of the supporting evidence they cited (which may well be the only evidence they had) was a higher caffiene level per ounce.

Okay.... I know the 'bucks roasts way too dark and I won't digress on what the probable reasons for that are (but they're easy to figure out). I have had Starbucks coffee in people's homes using whole beans that were freshly ground and brewed. The SCAA standard coffee measure (two level tablespoons of ground coffee per six ounces of water) was used. The resulting coffee was far smoother and more drinkable than any coffee I've ever consumed in a Starbucks Cafe.

Long story longer.... my friend Steve contends that they grind their coffee finer than is appropriate for drip coffee and actually use less than the standard recommended amount of grounds per ounce of water. This yields coffee that costs less to make but is "strong". Have any of you experimented at home or in your business with different grind levels in a drip maker? Care to share the results?

The theory (which I suspect is supported by verifiable facts) is that particles of an excessive fineness have too much surface area exposed to the brewing water and allow too many of the bitter alkaloids to be released during the brewing process (relative to coffee that is ground more coarsely). The higher caffiene level of Starbucks Cafe coffee makes sense under this scenario - more surface area would mean more caffiene extracted in the same brewing time.

I do know from experience that espresso which is ground too fine will yield more bitter shots, regardless of tamping pressure. So.... what of the possibility that we can get better brewed coffee by grinding a bit coarser than normally recommended but using a slightly larger amount of coffee? What do you think?

I do believe that it's reasonable to assume that consistent results suitable for doing A/B comparisons can only be easily done with a good quality grinder that yields consistent particle size (i.e. the grinder itself is too much of a variable if a whirly blade or cheap burr grinder is used).

[Mottmott]

...Have any of you experimented at home or in your business with different grind levels in a drip maker?  Care to share the results?

The theory (which I suspect is supported by verifiable facts)  is that particles of an excessive fineness have too much surface area exposed to the brewing water and allow too many of the bitter alkaloids to be released during the brewing process (relative to coffee that is ground more coarsely).  ...

I do know from experience that espresso which is ground too fine will yield more bitter shots, regardless of tamping pressure. So....  what of the possibility that we can get better brewed coffee by grinding a bit coarser than normally recommended but using a slightly larger amount of coffee? What do you think?...

I think it may depend upon what you make coffee in.

I make drip coffee in a chemex (filter) coffeemaker. Note that I tend not to like very strong coffee, definitely not bitter coffee. So everyone has to adjust the measure to their taste. I grind the beans very fine and use about a heaping tsp per cup (probably measures at about 2/3 Tbs). I think the filter captures any bitterness from very fine grinding. I routinely use filtered water heated to 195-200.

If I am making a single cup in the press, I dont grind it as fine as it will steep longer than in the chemex and not be filtered.

[Moopheus]

my friend Steve contends that they grind their coffee finer than is appropriate for drip coffee and actually use less than the standard recommended amount of grounds per ounce of water. This yields coffee that costs less to make but is "strong".

That certainly sounds like a recipe for overextraction to me.

So....  what of the possibility that we can get better brewed coffee by grinding a bit coarser than normally recommended but using a slightly larger amount of coffee? What do you think?

If the grounds are coarser, you'll get weaker coffee, since the water will flow through faster. My guess would be that adding more coffee will not compensate for that sufficiently. Or you'd end up using more coffee to get the same taste you'd get from normally ground and brewed coffee, which would just be a waste.

[Mayhaw Man]

Glad you guys brought this up.

As you might know, I don't have a kitchen currently. I have a wreck. One of the many culinary consequences of this disaster has been that I am drinking coffee out of a steam blower machine (cheap espresso maker), a French Press (6 cup B, very nice, works great, etc) or my vacuum pot (which is cool, but kind of a pain so I don't usually set it up when I am on the run). BUT-what is the proper grind for a French Press? I think that I might be going a bit fine, but who knows. Can a coffee expert help me out here?

Thanks,

[Brad Ballinger]

I'm hardly one to know what the optimum grain size should be, but I do know that as one grinds the beans more and more oils are realesed. There's probably a point when too much of a good thing occurs.

[phaelon56]

Most folks grind slightly coarser for French Press than they would for drip coffee that's going through a paper filter. It's all about the sludge factor. Finer grind = more sludge in the bottom of the cup when sing a French Press. Some people are okay with the sludge and others don't care for it.

Pertinient to this is consistency of grind. If using a whirly blade grinder there will be less consistency to particle size - some little chunks mixed in with powder - some sludge is inevitable. Using a good quality burr grinder (e.g. Rancilio Rocky or its equivalent) will yield consistent particle size and lessen the problem.

[coffeeroaster]

BUT-what is the proper grind for a French Press?

The general rule of thumb is that the "proper" grind depends on how long the grounds will be in contact with the water -- the longer the time, the coarser the grind. (Gee, I'm a poet and didn't know it.) Since they're steeped in the French press, the grind should be more coarse. Beans for espresso are ground fine because the water is forced through quickly. And, as Owen said, the coarser grind for the press helps keep the sludge from coming through the screen... I cannot stand the feeling of grounds in my mouth -- which makes cupping a real adventure!