Questions about Black Cardamom, Citrus and Other Ingredients in Dorie Greenspan's Fresh Orange Pork Tenderloin

[ElsieD]

Host's note: this discussion was split from the Dinner 2019 topic.

 

On 5/26/2019 at 2:43 AM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Reprise of Dorie Greenspan's Fresh Orange Pork Tenderloin.  Vanilla ice cream not shown.

 

 

How crucial is the cardamom?  Do you think I can use something else?

Edited May 28, 2019 by Smithy
Edited Title (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

How crucial is the cardamom?  Do you think I can use something else?

 

Yes, I think the dish would work without black cardamom but black cardamom adds a little something.  Besides, I needed a recipe to use up my bottle of black cardamom.  Of the other spices on hand, I think grains of paradise would work.

 

[ElsieD]

1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Yes, I think the dish would work without black cardamom but black cardamom adds a little something.  Besides, I needed a recipe to use up my bottle of black cardamom.  Of the other spices on hand, I think grains of paradise would work.

 

 

Thanks.  I have neither so I guess I'd best get to an Indian grocery store.

[Okanagancook]

4 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

Thanks.  I have neither so I guess I'd best get to an Indian grocery store.

Black cardamom is fantastic.  The pods should be plumb and not dried out and splitting.

[ElsieD]

9 minutes ago, Okanagancook said:

Black cardamom is fantastic.  The pods should be plumb and not dried out and splitting.

 

I have had the green but not the black.  Please clarify - they should be splitting or not splitting?  I'm thinking not splitting.  I'm going to go to the same Indian grocer I bought the green ones from.  I'm hoping he'll have the black ones.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My black cardamom pods from Penzeys are dried out and splitting.  They look like the picture from Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_cardamom

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/BlackCardamom.jpg

 

 

[Okanagancook]

18 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

I have had the green but not the black.  Please clarify - they should be splitting or not splitting?  I'm thinking not splitting.  I'm going to go to the same Indian grocer I bought the green ones from.  I'm hoping he'll have the black ones.

From the spruceates.com

 

”Always try to buy black cardamom whole rather than in seed form as it begins to lose its potency and aroma when the skin is removed and seeds are stored without the skin. For the same reason, it is also preferable not to buy the powdered form if whole pods are available. When required for use as a powder, remove and discard the skin, grind the seeds in a clean, dry coffee grinder, and use immediately. Look for fragrant, well-formed pods that are plump, firm, dry, and about an inch in length.’

 

my Indian cookbooks also say a similar thing.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Okanagancook (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

21 minutes ago, Okanagancook said:

From the spruceates.com

 

”Always try to buy black cardamom whole rather than in seed form as it begins to lose its potency and aroma when the skin is removed and seeds are stored without the skin. For the same reason, it is also preferable not to buy the powdered form if whole pods are available. When required for use as a powder, remove and discard the skin, grind the seeds in a clean, dry coffee grinder, and use immediately. Look for fragrant, well-formed pods that are plump, firm, dry, and about an inch in length.’

 

my Indian cookbooks also say a similar thing.

 

 

Could you show a picture of your pods?

 

[blue_dolphin]

20 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Could you show a picture of your pods?

 

 

I'm not @Okanagancook and this probably belongs in a cardamom thread, but I'll show a picture of my pods 🙃.  I bought this package last week and they look pretty much the same as previous black cardamom pods I've purchased in the past. "Plump" is not an adjective that comes to my mind in describing them as they look rather shriveled to me.  I suppose you want them to look like they are full of seeds and not flat and empty so maybe that's what's meant. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

@blue_dolphin my pods look like yours.  The black pods are smoked and dried, as I understand, so I would expect them to be somewhat shriveled.

 

[ElsieD]

1 hour ago, Okanagancook said:

From the spruceates.com

 

”Always try to buy black cardamom whole rather than in seed form as it begins to lose its potency and aroma when the skin is removed and seeds are stored without the skin. For the same reason, it is also preferable not to buy the powdered form if whole pods are available. When required for use as a powder, remove and discard the skin, grind the seeds in a clean, dry coffee grinder, and use immediately. Look for fragrant, well-formed pods that are plump, firm, dry, and about an inch in length.’

 

my Indian cookbooks also say a similar thing.

 

 

I tried to go to the Indian grocer who I KNEW was at this particular corner in this little strip mall.  However, when I got there, much to my surprise an eight or so story office building had sprouted up, seemingly overnight.  So then on the way home I stopped at a natural food store and they had black cardamom seeds.  They did not have the pods but rather than wait to make the recipe I bought the seeds.  I paid $4.00 for what amounted to 1 tablespoon.  They smell really nice.  So now the question is, how much of these seeds equals the yield of 4 pods?

[Okanagancook]

Mine are also similar.  Only one or two split ones.  They are not crispy dry.  They have a pretty decent aroma when the sealed jar is opened.  These are the best I have been able to find here in a small town.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Okanagancook (log)

[Okanagancook]

The pod size varies but I should think 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of seeds per pod.  What do others think?

What are you making with them?

Edited May 27, 2019 by Okanagancook (log)

[ElsieD]

I am making Fresh Orange Pork Tenderloin from Dorie Greenspan's Around my French Table.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

20 minutes ago, Okanagancook said:

The pod size varies but I should think 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of seeds per pod.  What do others think?

What are you making with them?

 

 

That sounds like too much, at least from Penzeys' pods.  I'd say maybe 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon total from all four pods.  I don't think the amount is critical.  The second time I made the recipe I coarsely ground the seeds and I suggest that rather than leave whole.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

6 minutes ago, ElsieD said:

I am making Fresh Orange Pork Tenderloin from Dorie Greenspan's Around my French Table.

 

Don't forget the shallots!

 

[ElsieD]

6 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Don't forget the shallots!

 

 

Shallots?  It calls for onion or spring onions or scallions.  No mention of shallots.  I have shallots, is that better than what she recommends in the recipe?

[Okanagancook]

14 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

That sounds like too much, at least from Penzeys' pods.  I'd say maybe 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon total from all four pods.  I don't think the amount is critical.  The second time I made the recipe I coarsely ground the seeds and I suggest that rather than leave whole.

 

I just measured my pods.  They vary from 1/2 inch to 1 inch.  The one inch pod yielded a heaping 1/4 teaspoon of seeds.

The recipe being made calls for one to crush the seeds with a knife so about the same as coarsely  crushed.

 

i have had very good product from these folks in Edmonton

https://silkroadspices.ca/collections/indian/products/cardamom-black

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, ElsieD said:

 

Shallots?  It calls for onion or spring onions or scallions.  No mention of shallots.  I have shallots, is that better than what she recommends in the recipe?

 

As originally posted in the dinner thread, I used shallots.  I had onions on hand but I would suggest shallots.  Try both ways and report back!

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, Okanagancook said:

I just measured my pods.  They vary from 1/2 inch to 1 inch.  The one inch pod yielded a heaping 1/4 teaspoon of seeds.

The recipe being made calls for one to crush the seeds with a knife so about the same as coarsely  crushed.

 

i have had very good product from these folks in Edmonton

https://silkroadspices.ca/collections/indian/products/cardamom-black

 

Wow, pod sizes must vary quite a bit.  Would it have bothered Greenspan to say "two grams of black cardamom seeds" or somesuch.

 

I read the recipe differently.  I thought she meant use the edge of a knife to get the seeds out of the pods.  But I believe you are correct.

 

[ElsieD]

I'm making 1/2 the recipe so I'll start with 1/4 tsp. crushed.  I can always add more.  And, I'll use shallots as I'm partial to shallots.  I'll be making it this week so I'll report back.  You have all been very helpful, thank you.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

For oranges I used Minneola and one Valencia.  The Washington Post version of the recipe suggests blood oranges.

 

[ElsieD]

Valencia would have been nice.  I bought navel as that was all that was on offer.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Navel should be fine.  I'm not that fond of navel oranges and try to buy anything else.  But, yes, some seasons navel is all there is.  As an aside, this was the first time I'd tried Minneola and I like them.  Easy to peel too.

 

[heidih]

29 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Navel should be fine.  I'm not that fond of navel oranges and try to buy anything else.  But, yes, some seasons navel is all there is.  As an aside, this was the first time I'd tried Minneola and I like them.  Easy to peel too.

 

 

well the minns are a tangelo/grapefruit cross so much more complex. Navels are like the poptarts of oranges. I heard somene asking for navels at the farmers market yeasterday and just bit my over active tongue