Donut from Waffle Mix?

[prashamk]

Hi,

 

I've been working on starting a dessert joint. Luckily I am getting a bigger space and hence I am thinking of adding more options. Since I am primarily banking on waffle business, I wish to know if I can use the same mix to make Donuts? I will use toaster type machine to make donuts and not fry them. 

 

Regards

[Lisa Shock]

Doughnuts in general fall into two categories: fried lean bread dough and fried rich cake batter.

 

Note that many traditional toppings for doughnuts rely on the doughnuts being 375°F hot (hotter than a toaster) as they come out of the fryer. They won't spread well or adhere at lower temperatures.

 

Flavor-wise, well, how would you react if you asked me to make a delicious birthday cake for you and instead of a rich, moist cake batter, I baked waffle batter in a cake tin and frosted it and served it to you?

 

You should check out where the world of doughnuts is at right now. A good example of what you should be doing if you want to make good doughnuts, not some pale imitation of a doughnut, can be found on the Ideas In Food blog. Alex and Aki have a business called Curiosity Doughnuts and their blog chronicles their work on various formulas.

 

Waffle batter is too dry, has too much chewy gluten texture and too little flavor to make a decent doughnut. Your toasting machine along with waffle batter will create a crunchy exterior crust, essentially be making very, very thick waffles. The whole joy of waffles is the outer crust. Adding 3cm+ of depth will not improve them. Nor, will making a waffle thicker turn it into a doughnut. In my fairly-well trained opinion, changing the ingredients and the method of cooking means that you will simply not be making doughnuts. Your end product will be bland, dry and crunchy. -And icings, toppings, glazes, etc. either won't stay on the finished product or will soak into it making them have an undesirable texture. (the deep-frying gives doughnuts a fat shell which protects them from sogginess which would otherwise result from the water in glazes)

 

Generally, baking is more of a precise science and there are reasons why various batters are formulated differently from each other. The one exception is crepe batter which does triple duty as popover batter and Yorkshire pudding batter. If you aren't willing or able to get a small deep fryer and make either cake batter or lean bread dough as a doughnut base, then IMO, doughnuts shouldn't be on your menu.

[Lisa Shock]

I just realized that there may be some misperceptions about your equipment. Are you using an oven and doughnut-shaped pans or one of those electric doughnut makers that are similar to a waffle iron?

 

The pans were covered in another message thread here, where a woman was having trouble using them to make doughnuts for an office party. She was under the impression that they were the industry standard for making cake doughnuts. They're not, cake doughnuts are extruded/piped directly into hot oil. They never came out like doughnuts. I would also suspect they might not hold together as well as a real doughnut, as the fried exterior provides structural support. When you bake in a  pan like those linked to above, the final product will have a soft bottom which is very much like the interior of a regular cake. However, the tops will always be a bit flat and will have a leathery top layer like the layer that bakers trim off cakes before frosting them. It will be ring-shaped cake, not a torus, and just as soft and crumbly as a slice of cake. Picking them up, either to decorate or eat, will be difficult.

 

The electric machine, when loaded with waffle batter, will produce a hard, cracker-like crust.

 

Because 'doughnuts' made with either system lack an outer layer of fat, which holds heat very well, they will cool rapidly as soon as they are removed from the oven/machine and you will have problems with glaze and/or topping adhesion. For the most part, you need the doughnuts to be screamingly hot, straight out of the oil to make the toppings and glazes work properly.

 

I hope this helps! If you need clarification, just ask.

[prashamk]

@Lisa Shock I thank you for spending your valuable time in writing two exhaustive posts for me. I've got your point... 1) Get Donut Premix & 2) Get a deep fryer. 

 

I wish to know that does one need to dip the hot donut straight out of the oil into the glaze? Also if the donuts are allowed to cool down before dipping into the glaze, will there be good adhesion between the two, as the temperature will be way lower than 375 Degrees in that case. 

[pastrygirl]

While I agree that simply having a hole doesn't make something a doughnut worth eating, I'm skeptical of Lisa's claims about glazing.  Maybe the dough needs to be warm/hot from the fryer if you want a super thin glaze completely coating the pastry a la Krispy Kreme, but sometimes you want a thicker glaze piped on or dipped into.  If you're going to dip a pastry in a chocolate glaze and add sprinkles, you'll want a cool pastry and warm but not hot glaze so you get good coverage without both the glaze and the sprinkles running off.

[Lisa Shock]

They aren't usually dipped, the glaze is poured over them. There's a special device for it. The 'honey glaze' needs hot doughnuts. They are cooled for about 30 seconds after coming out of the oil, but, they are still MUCH hotter than a baked good which wasn't in oil. (go look at threads here about baked potatoes with and without oil rubbed on them, the oil-rubbed potatoes will get hotter than non-oil rubbed potatoes in the same oven because the water inside turns to steam at about 212°F and oil stays put and can get to be significantly hotter until it burns. Doughnuts do get hand-dipped dipped (with triple gloves) in chocolate fondant to make the chocolate sort and they can be a bit cooler for that, although I think bigger restaurants also have massive applicators for it. But then again no one completely enrobes them in the chocolate glaze. Sprinkles will not adhere unless the doughnuts are very hot so that the glaze is also hot and fuzes to the sprinkles.

 

I spent a summer during my college years working for a mom& pop doughnut place right before they went from making the cake batter and lean dough from scratch to using commercial mixes. You have to be very quick to get everything to come together. I certainly messed things up often enough to learn what happens when you don't do it right.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Lisa Shock (log)

[pastrygirl]

I realize the OP is talking donuts from waffle mix here and might not want to get all pastry chef on them, but one could, in theory, put something other than fondant on a doughnut, couldn't they?  A simple room temp powdered sugar glaze or chocolate ganache ... or is that as wrong to you as baked "doughnuts"?

[Lisa Shock]

4 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

I realize the OP is talking donuts from waffle mix here and might not want to get all pastry chef on them, but one could, in theory, put something other than fondant on a doughnut, couldn't they?  A simple room temp powdered sugar glaze or chocolate ganache ... or is that as wrong to you as baked "doughnuts"?

 

Yeah, you could. Honestly, nowadays the better doughnut places are experimenting with all sorts of toppings, ingredients, and flavors. (Violet ganache? Yes, please!) The exterior part of this is pretty minor. Working out functional glazes would be pretty easy but only worthwhile if the actual doughnut was fabulously delicious and structurally sound.

 

Part of the issue boils down to a discussion we encounter with all kinds of foods: when does adding a 'twist' to a dish push it outside of the definition of its name? 

[prashamk]

@pastrygirl after reading @Lisa Shock's feedback on my query I was digging deeper and found that most of the online recipes suggest using simple chocolate ganache and powdered sugar glaze and not fondant. It may not be the original or the best stuff but it might be the easier one. I guess if I use simple sugar glaze or ganache, adhesion with "Donut" may not be a problem.

 

Another issue discussed was that waffle's baked structure may not be great to pick up and eat like we do with normal sized donut. That's true but when I checked with the toaster type machines they are making MINI Donuts and not the standard sized ones. I believe a Mini Donut should not have much problem about structural support. 

 

So I guess I can avoid frying and use a toaster type machine for making Mini Donuts from Waffle Premix Or is there another premix that will provide better tasting Mini Donuts?

[pastrygirl]

I'd imagine that there are probably doughnut mixes out there somewhere.  But a cake doughnut is a pretty simple dough, why not try making some from scratch? 

https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/coffee-doughnuts-with-coffee-glaze-56390164

https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/mini-cake-doughnuts-51123670

https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/chai-doughnuts-with-spiced-sugar-56390163

https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/apple-cider-doughnuts-with-cider-caramel-glaze-56390162

 

Waffles are even easier, you (usually) don't even need an electric mixer!

 

... And both are far easier than working with chocolate 😂

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by pastrygirl (log)

[prashamk]

Considering that originally Donuts are meant to be fried, I feel I may not get same result when I "Toast" them at lower temperature. Hence I feel its better to avoid Donut Premix. 

 

Firstly I am not too experienced in baking/cooking. Secondly in a commercial venture I feel consistent taste is the key to success. Thirdly since I will not be present at the joint at all times, I need to keep it simple for the staff. Hence even if it costs slightly more, I am inclined to use a premix rather than making something from scratch. 

 

Considering that donuts are little denser than cake, I feel its best that I use waffle premix rather than cake premix but the reviewers of donut toaster says they used various cake premix in it and were pretty satisfied. I guess I will have to try it pratically. 

 

BTW thanks for the really helpful links

Edited November 16, 2018 by prashamk (log)