Burgers get some respect

[jaybee]

'Schneided"--Splain, please. This Episcopalian wants to know.

As in blanked, zeroed, no score. A term, I believe from gin rummy. The big victory is to triple schneid your opponent. Also used when one says "I'm on the schneid" meaning not doing very well, busted, failed to score.

[Stone]

is there anything to the feeling that the best "burger" can't be had at an upscale restaurant?

I don't think so. As a statistical matter, . . .

It's not about statistics, you automaton. It's about chopped meat on a bun. On behalf of the huddled, sweaty masses, I ask, "is anything sacred?"

That said, whenst ordering a burger, should one inquire into the the cuts of meat used (and their proportions) so as to select the proper wine?

[Stone]

'Schneided"--Splain, please. This Episcopalian wants to know.

As in blanked, zeroed, no score. A term, I believe from gin rummy. The big victory is to triple schneid your opponent. Also used when one says "I'm on the schneid" meaning not doing very well, busted, failed to score.

I thought the term was created by Berman on ESPN. Is it in the general parlance? (Sorry to go off-topic. I'll stop.)

[Wilfrid]

What I didn't like about the article was a lack of evaluation. Having read it twice, I think I worked out that. among conventional burgers, the author was giving above average scores to The Old Town Bar, the Burger Joint (UWS) and the Lunchbox Tool Company (whoever they are). And maybe to JUdson Grill.

I wish preferences had been more clearly stated. Does that look like a reasonable choice for best burgers in NYC? (Edit: I see Steven addressed that above). Have we done this on another thread?

Edited January 15, 2003 by Wilfrid (log)

[Fat Guy]

That said, whenst ordering a burger, should one inquire into the the cuts of meat used (and their proportions) so as to select the proper wine?

Aussie Shiraz/Syrah is one of the best wines for burgers, especially those that have char on them (the burgers, not the wines).

[Fat Guy]

Wilfrid, I agree. The article tried to do too much in the space allowed. There wasn't enough space for persuasive evaluation -- we just had to rely on Ed Levine's name. There wasn't enough space for a clear delineation of the different types of burgers and what might make one better than another. The question of doneness wasn't explored sufficiently. Probably should have been done as a series, with each of these points dealt with in a Times-worthy manner.

[Stone]

From the article:

"The burger at Union Square Cafe costs $12.50 and comes with French fries; it isn't even close to the city's most expensive. For many years that title was held by the "21" Club, with its $26 burger made with houseground top round and sirloin, which Eric Blauberg, the chef, has recently rejiggered to include duck fat and fresh thyme and marjoram.

It's a flavorful burger. But really, what kind of a burger joint requires a gentleman to wear a jacket and suggests a tie?"

By the way, is "California burger" now a term of art like "Chicago-style pizza" and "Califronia-style pizza"?

Edited January 15, 2003 by Dstone001 (log)

[Fat Guy]

It's a flavorful burger. But really, what kind of a burger joint requires a gentleman to wear a jacket and suggests a tie?

The kind that wants to exclude the riffraff. That's the point of places like 21, Four Seasons, etc. Didn't Nelson Rockefeller have a quote about this issue?

[Wilfrid]

Looking out for a report on the new upstairs restaurant at '21'.

"Probably should have been done as a series, with each of these points dealt with in a Times-worthy manner. "

Mm, but they're probably not catering for a readership of compulsive-obsessives. That's where we come in.

[Stone]

It's a flavorful burger. But really, what kind of a burger joint requires a gentleman to wear a jacket and suggests a tie?

The kind that wants to exclude the riffraff. That's the point of places like 21, Four Seasons, etc. Didn't Nelson Rockefeller have a quote about this issue?

That was the author's observation, not mine.

[Fat Guy]

eGullet.com: When the New York Times isn't obsessive-compulsive enough for you.

[CathyL]

Looking out for a report on the new upstairs restaurant at '21'.  

Voila. Steve Cuozzo on Upstairs at 21

[i'm beginning to regret sending Ed a link to this discussion...what the hell, he's thick-skinned. And maybe he'll sign on and join in?]

[Wilfrid]

Thanks for that Cathy, although I was thinking of a report from a reliable eGulleter. I thought this was a pretty kind thread by our standards.

[CathyL]

True, but we're only on page 2.

[LESider]

It's a flavorful burger. But really, what kind of a burger joint requires a gentleman to wear a jacket and suggests a tie?

The kind that wants to exclude the riffraff. That's the point of places like 21, Four Seasons, etc. Didn't Nelson Rockefeller have a quote about this issue?

Yeah he said there's a sucker born every minute who will pay over 20 dollars for a hamburger...

[jhlurie]

I'm still a huge fan of the burger at McSorleys.

That's because you are always drunk while eating it!

So... have we broken down yet and tried the $41 burger at Old Homestead yet?

Edited January 15, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[201]

...have we broken down yet and tried the $41 burger at Old Homestead yet?

Strangely enough, I happened to catch a glimpse of this burger on CNN. Aesthetically speaking, it's not very appealing to me. Also, it's made from U.S.-produced kobe beef rather than Japanese kobe beef and I've heard differing opinions on whether the former is as good as the latter.

As far as upscale places being a valid venue for good burgers, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be. I'd say that in 95% of these places I would be considered riff-raff, but that doesn't mean they can't have a terrific burger.

Still, I can't help thinking that the $41 burger is more of a tourist attraction than a serious creation.

[bpearis]

Wilfrid, I agree. The article tried to do too much in the space allowed. There wasn't enough space for persuasive evaluation -- we just had to rely on Ed Levine's name. There wasn't enough space for a clear delineation of the different types of burgers and what might make one better than another. The question of doneness wasn't explored sufficiently. Probably should have been done as a series, with each of these points dealt with in a Times-worthy manner.

If there was ever a need for a EW-style charticle, it's this.

[Jim Dixon]

To get to Dstone001's question about better burgers at upscale places, I think you're more likely to get a better burger when the restaurant either grinds its own or buys top-quality beef, and that isn't likely at a diner or bar.

I did a similar burger roundup for our restaurant guide in 2001, and here in Portland there's really good burger available (from Painted Hills or Oregon Country Beef, rancher consortiums that offer grass-fed, additive free beef). The purveyor grinds it daily, and even a couple of places that used to do their own have switched.

Freshly ground beef also reduce the chances of E. coli infection and the other unpleasantness about mass-produced burger as related in Fast Food Nation.

The one thing Levine didn't address is the ability to get your burger rare or, my preference, medium rare. I've had to convince more than one server that it's perfectly legal to serve a pink-on-the-inside burger if the customer asks for it. The local regs for burgers not cooked to order is 155F, and the result isn't worth eating.

Levine also implies that burgers were first eaten in NYC, but my research found no fewer than four cities claiming the very first hamburger. Food anthropologists generally give Athens, Texas the nod. (and don't ask me what the other ones are...it didn't make it into the story)

I have to agree with him about burger size, though. The trend to bigger patties just makes them harder to eat. The very best burgers, which are the ones I grill on the Weber in my back yard, run about 5-6 oz. The trick is to buy the smaller cheap buns (or rolls, as you east coasters like to call them) and make the patties thick enough to sear completely but remain med-rare inside.

Jim

[macrosan]

Levine also implies that burgers were first eaten in NYC, but my research found no fewer than four cities claiming the very first hamburger. Food anthropologists generally give Athens, Texas the nod.

I assume you mean "first in the USA" Jim, since I have always assumed that the very first hamburger was eaten where it was invented, in Hamburg, Germany in the 19th century.

I agree with you about hamburgers in high-end restaurants. I no longer eat anything but ground-to-order burgers, because I find the others frankly not eatable. I am definitely going to try the Kobe-burger at Homestead (tourist or not), and have also yet to sample Luger's.

Edited January 15, 2003 by macrosan (log)

[Fat Guy]

The place in New Haven, CT -- Louis Lunch -- makes the claim as well. Which is the fourth city, Jim?

[Bux]

And hey, what about Island Burgers & Shakes?

I thought their chicken sandwiches were better than the burgers. The burgers were small and inconsistent (often dry) and overwhelmed by the toppings. Chicken has no flavor of its own, so the toppings carried the day well. Great shakes though.

Have we reached the point where grown men with a degree of interest in food have never had a chicken that tastes like chicken?

[Wilfrid]

I think you're more likely to get a better burger when the restaurant either grinds its own or buys top-quality beef, and that isn't likely at a diner or bar.

Of course, diners and bars regularly come top of "best burger in NYC" polls. But an inference consistent with Jim's plausible premise is that the people who self-select to respond to such polls do most of their sampling in diners and bars.

Polls for you.

Edited January 15, 2003 by Wilfrid (log)

[jaybee]

I thought the term was created by Berman on ESPN. Is it in the general parlance?

Schneid has been in my general parlance ever since I overheard some old Jews playing bridge in 1947 whilst eating gribnes on the porch of a kuchelain in the Catskills. Two of them collapsed with coronary arrest when they tried singing Dancing in the Dark and couldn't handle the octave change since they started an octave too high.

[Stone]

And hey, what about Island Burgers & Shakes?

I thought their chicken sandwiches were better than the burgers. The burgers were small and inconsistent (often dry) and overwhelmed by the toppings. Chicken has no flavor of its own, so the toppings carried the day well. Great shakes though.

Have we reached the point where grown men with a degree of interest in food have never had a chicken that tastes like chicken?

Alas. Pardon my hyperbole. But I've had lots of other things that taste like chicken -- gator, snake, capon, frogs legs . . . .

Edited January 15, 2003 by Dstone001 (log)