How can Rick Bayless's Salsas

[malarkey]

The only decent prepared salsa is Herdez.  Period.  Jaymes would heartily agree with me.

YEA!! I wholeheartedly agree. The Salsa Casera. Glad to see some converts here. I love it, its the only jarred/canned salsa I'll buy. I've tried the darker stuff (is it ranchera?) and I didn't like it as much as the casera. YUM.

[mb7o]

It's funny, my favorite salsa (though frankly I don't buy very much at all) is Tostitos brand. You find it in the chip aisle, not in the Salsa section.

Why do I like it? Because it's 'chunky' style and has a strong tomato flavor. It's almost impossible to find good fresh tomatoes here in the NW, so canned ones often seem much better.

Or it could be because it was the only brand in a convenience store in college, where lunch about once a month was a bag of chips and salsa.

Someday I'll have to do a comparison again. Then maybe I'll use it much more.

[awbrig]

picked up a great salsa - actually bean dip at Williams Sonoma yesterday...

Cuban Black Bean Dip made by the El Paso Chile Co.

It has black beans, jalepeno, sweet red peppers and an undercurrent of rich gold rum...I recommend!

Edited January 14, 2003 by awbrig (log)

[Dana]

While passing through Sante Fe this summer, we had a super lunch at Coyote Cafe. The table salsa was terrific. Naturally, as we left , we stopped at the little store next door and purchased a jar each of the Fire-Roasted Salsa and the Roasted Red Chili Salsa, along with the habanera sause (husband LOVED it). We opened the Fire Roasted salsa, anticipating something similar to what we'd had in the resturant. My first comment was "Vinegar". Why would they ruin a perfectly good product with vinegar? Does anyone put vinegar in their homemade salsa? I haven't opened the second jar, but I'm not eager to, as the ingredient list also includes vinegar. Is is needed for porcessing? I was really disappionted.

[MsRamsey]

I've looked for the Herdez salsa in two large, superior grocery stores and could not find it. Do they not sell it on the West Coast?

[Jaymes]

I've looked for the Herdez salsa in two large, superior grocery stores and could not find it.  Do they not sell it on the West Coast?

Don't know where you are, but recently I visited my son who lives in San Jose. He and the "guys" (all software programmers - are there no women out there?) were getting together one night and one of them had brought a jar of Pace.

So I hopped in the car and went to a nearby grocery store and bought three bottles of Herdez - a mild, med & hot.

Naturally, these extremely discriminating diners pronounced it superior. And my son tells me it is their new standard.

So, where are you?

Edited January 14, 2003 by Jaymes (log)

[awbrig]

I havent seen Herdez Salsa here in Chicago either..I also am not a fan of Coyote Cafe bottled salsas either...

Edited January 14, 2003 by awbrig (log)

[Hopleaf]

The only decent prepared salsa is Herdez.  Period.  Jaymes would heartily agree with me.

I love their Salsa Ranchero.

[Jaymes]

I'd suggest to you, Awb, and to you, MsRamsey, that you check with stores that cater to an Hispanic market.

But frankly, if you're going to that much trouble, it'd probably be easier to just make your own.

Except that "stores that cater to an Hispanic market" are also likely to sell other treasures that you might enjoy experimenting with. Like cajeta, and crema, and piloncillo, etc.

[Hopleaf]

I havent seen Herdez Salsa here in Chicago either..I also am not a fan of Coyote Cafe bottled salsas either...

Find yourself a good hispanic market, aka supermercado. There's a great one called Pete's Market on Kedzie just south of 56th St. There're all over the place. There's another good one on Clark and Lunt in Rogers Park. Just, whatever you do, don't buy their meats.

[MsRamsey]

I've looked for the Herdez salsa in two large, superior grocery stores and could not find it.  Do they not sell it on the West Coast?

Don't know where you are, but recently I visited my son who lives in San Jose. He and the "guys" (all software programmers - are there no women out there?) were getting together one night and one of them had brought a jar of Pace.

So I hopped in the car and went to a nearby grocery store and bought three bottles of Herdez - a mild, med & hot.

Naturally, these extremely discriminating diners pronounced it superior. And my son tells me it is their new standard.

So, where are you?

Seattle. There are a couple of Hispanic stores at Pike Place Market I can check.

[Really Nice!]

However I am not as good as most of you at describing what I am eating or using the proper adjectives to describe food or as to why I dislike or like someting in fine detail.

There are two books on this subject that are incredibly dry, but informative.

Aroma and Flavor Lexicon for Sensory Evaluation: Terms, Definitions, References, and Examples (Astm Data Series Publication, No 66)

This is a text and software package from the Oregon State University (I think-I'll have to check). It lists terms used to describe flavor and smell of foods, as well as defining the terms research that led to its definition. Also if you're of the science-minded, it contains the protocols for preparing a food for a taste test. It's a spiral wire binding book. It's a pricy $99.

For an example, I'll quote basil and tomato characteristics.

Basil. Anise/Licorice, green, hay, minty, tea.

Tomato. Acid/Sour, earthy, grassy, metalic, tin, tobacco, woody. (and many more)

With each characteristic you can drill down farther. For example, Basil-Hay:

Term Hay

Definition Aromatic of sweet, dry grasses (hay, straw)

Example Dried parsley, dried herbs, (savory, thyme, oregano). Autumn picked tea leaves, basil, paprika, rosemary.

You can drill down even more to find all those foods that have HAY as a characteristic which includes: basil, dill weed, savory, whisky, and wine to name a few.

It takes a while for Amazon to secure a copy. One of the two authors, Gail Vance Civille, does a lot of food sensory evaluation type books if you're into that kind of thing.

The other book is: A Psychology of Food: More Than a Matter of Taste by Bernard Lyman. Unfortunately, this is an out-of-print book. It took Amazon ten months to find me a copy. However, on verifiying that the link works, I see there is a used copy available for $25.

As the title states, this book looks into the psychology of how we interpret food tastes; why we like some foods, dislike others; why we crave certain foods at certain times etc. It also categorizes flavors together etc. There's a lot more that I can't recall offhand, I'll have a look tonight and update my message.

Edited to include content about the book, A Psychology of Food: More Than a Matter of Taste

The table of contents reads as follows:

Part 1 Food: Its psychological meaning and significance

... Chapter 1: The role of food and eating in personality and social development

Part 2 Food Preferences

... Chapter 2: Long-term food preferences

... Chapter 3: Fluctuations in food preferences <- good for the thread discussing the age question: keeping it simple.

...Chapter 4: The relation between emotions and food preferences. With respect to those that have lost loved ones in the food for mourning post as I have, this might be a good read.

...Chapter 5: Fads, fashions, and food preferences.

Part 3 Food as a complex psychological stimulus

... Chapter 6: Taste

... Chapter 7: Oder

... Chapter 8: Texture

... Chapter 9: Appearance

... Chapter 10: Color

Part 4 Food meanings and associations

... Chapter 11: Food meanings

... Chapter 12: Changing food likes and dislikes

... Chapter 13: The use of food and psychotherapy

... Chapter 14: Conclusion

If you're looking for an analytical evaluation as to why you taste things the way you do and when, this is a good read. I've often felt that I'm a poor taster so I peruse these types of books like crazy in search of learning how to taste food and wine.

When you buy a bottle of Château Pétrus and prepare a tasting menu for it, you better know what flavors and aromas you're looking for and how to taste them!

CathyL I agree with your assessment of Culinary Artistry. I think I've recommended this to death along with Timing is Everything! Here are a couple of posts that include my recommendation for those books:

mamster's mystery basket challenge

The Recommend-a-Food-Book Thread

I agree that you can get out-of-print books at other locations, but there's a 20 percent discount by adding egulletcom-20 at the end of the ISBN number in the Amazon.com URL. See the first post in the: The Recommend-a-Food-Book Thread.

Gotta support those that support you.

Edited January 15, 2003 by Really Nice! (log)

[CathyL]

On another thread, Suzanne mentioned Culinary Artistry by Dornenburg and Page. A highlight of the book is a quite comprehensive listing of ingredients, flavors and how they interact, compiled through discussions with many great chefs. It makes you think about how things taste and why some combinations work better than others. Less scholarly than the lexicon Really Nice mentioned - which sounds fascinating - but perhaps more approachable by us non-chef types.

Really Nice, in the search for out-of-print books I've gotten better/faster results with Barnes & Noble and Ex Libris than with Amazon.

[Schielke]

I had a fresh salsa business for a couple of years; the farmer I worked with wanted to make a canned sauce, and I just wouldn't do it; it seemed the antithesis of what table salsas were about.  While I roasted (on a comal) the vegetables I used -- tomatoes, garlic, chiles, tomatillos -- I didn't cook them together as a sauce.  Once you can them, they're subjected to a lot of heat and the taste is going to change.

I wonder if this new pasteurization technology could drastically improve the taste of bottled (well, probably not bottled, but bagged or something) salsa?

They aparently squeeze the hell out of it instead of heating it a bunch.

Ben

[Schielke]

I created a seperate topic for anything related to the fresher under pressure thing above not about salsa.

Ben

[Rachel Perlow]

On another thread, Suzanne mentioned Culinary Artistry by Dornenburg and Page.  A highlight of the book is a quite comprehensive listing of ingredients, flavors and how they interact, compiled through discussions with many great chefs.  It makes you think about how things taste and why some combinations work better than others.  Less scholarly than the lexicon Really Nice mentioned - which sounds fascinating - but perhaps more approachable by us non-chef types.

Reminder: Andrew Dornenburg and Karen Page are online for an eGullet Q&A right now.

[fyfas]

Dislike the Bayless products, too, as being just "not good enough". Of course. nothing can beat fresh-made; surprise is that some commercially prepared aren't that bad... Mark Miller's (Coyote Cafe) line comes to mind.