Michelin '03

[Jon Tseng]

Presume this baby's out soon; time for a bit of annual crystal ball-gazing, methinks

Any thoughts? Will Petrus not actually being in existence at the moment be a barrier to its second star? Will Foliage keep its tinkler sans-Hywel?

Anyone know when its meant to be out?

cheerio

J

[Beachfan]

Les Loges in Avignon will get starred.

[awbrig]

I am sorry to tell you but the Michelin 2003 award has already been awarded.

The youngest ever recipient too:

[Andy Lynes]

I would guess (and it really is a guess, I have no inside knowledge of this at all) that Gordon and Marcus discussed the move of Petrus with Michelin and were assured that it would not affect their chances, after all is is meant to be based on a number of visits over a 12 month period. I will be amazed if they don't get their second star this year.

La Trompette is a dead cert for a star I think and if there is any justice Hibiscus will get their second, although it may be early in the life of the restaurant for that I suppose, but who really knows whats goes on in the minds of the Michelin men?

[Lord Michael Lewis]

if there is any justice Hibiscus will get their second[star], although it may be early in the life of the restaurant for that I suppose, but who really knows whats goes on in the minds of the Michelin men?

I'd wager that Hibiscus will be passed over as it hasn't had nearly enough press attention.

[Tonyfinch]

I would imagine Embassy will get a star. As for Hibiscus, doesn't it lack a level of formality and fussiness which would bring it a second star?

[Tonyfinch]

but who really knows whats goes on in the minds of the Michelin men?

Do you think the minds of the Michelin men are that difficult to read? I think the award of stars, in the UK at least, is a predictable affair really. You may question why this one or that one was promoted/demoted but in general its not hard to see which restaurants fit the Michelin criteria and which ones do not is it?

What would be interesting is if a non- Frenchified Indian restaurant got a star. Or a Chinese restaurant, or a Middle Easten restaurant. I predict that the only new star awarded to a non French or French type restaurant will be Locanda Locatelli. When are the awards due?

[Andy Lynes]

I think Hibiscus is quite formal and has all the bits and bobs you would expect of a 2 star : seperate bar, canapes, amouse bouche, good linen, stemware and cutlery, complex food and luxury ingredients. Remember that Martin Blunos won 2 stars when his restaurant was in a row of shops in Bristol next door to a pet shop. I never went but I am told that the premises were nothing special

[AdamLawrence]

And, to back Andy up further, Le Champignon Sauvage (which I still haven't got round to visiting) is in the middle of a decidedly ordinary-looking parade of shops in a not-very-prepossessing part of Cheltenham.

Adam

[Matthew Grant]

Definitely La Trompette, almost definitely Locatelli. I enjoyed Embassy but am not sure that it was Michelin experience but I certainly wouldn't begrudge it a star if it was awarded one.

How about Waterside to lose a star, I haven't been in a while, will the change of head chef make a difference? It would be controversial.

Dead cert: La Tante Claire to lose both stars

[Bapi]

Re The Waterside Inn- I certainly hope not. We went there again in late December (write up to follow) and had the best meal we have yet had there. Nothing could be faulted from canapes to the last petit four.

Re Hibiscus -I agree with Andy, it well deserves to achieve a second star and does have the the formality needed to attain this, though thankfully this is applied sparingly.

Re Andy's post - maybe Adam can back me up, but Raymond Blanc also got his second star whilst in a row of shops in Jericho, before moving to Le Manoir didn't he ?

[Gary Marshall]

the guide is usually published 1st feb.

We go to Winteringham on the nearest weekend to this hoping he'll get the 3rd star, i assume as it's for sale he's got a fairly strong steer from michelin that there's no upgrade.

In comparison to Ramsay RHR i'd say it deserves it.

Elsewhere i'd second Petrus for 2, locatelli, embassy deserves it but is hollihead still there or at the marquee? I'd also not be surprised to see hibiscus passed over. Deserves it but does lack in the grandeur stakes, although that's a bonus in my book!

on a local basis i'd be interested to see if martel smith can retain simon gueller's star, pretty sure he'd be the youngest holder of a star in the UK if he did.

someone often tipped for 3 is micheal caines, i hear v good, but expensive reports, anyone been recently?

[Tonyfinch]

So no radical predictions then. All French fine dining establishments apart from Locatelli which is an Italian fine dining establishment. Ho hum.

[macrosan]

So no radical predictions then. All French fine dining establishments apart from Locatelli which is an Italian fine dining establishment. Ho hum.

Surely that's the nature of Michelin, Tony. There's a big culture-timelag. I've never possessed a Michelin Guide, and I don't think I'll ever buy one. I'm interested in going to their starred restaurants, but I don't think I need their book to do that. I'm much more likely to ask people here for their experience than to look for somewhere in the MG.

Incidentally, when I looked at the website of Comme Chez Soi (my most recent Michelin experience) I noticed that they didn't give their Michelin rating a mention anywhere. Is this a requirement by Michelin that their recommendations can't advertise it ?

[Gary Marshall]

Incidentally, when I looked at the website of Comme Chez Soi (my most recent Michelin experience) I noticed that they didn't give their Michelin rating a mention anywhere. Is this a requirement by Michelin that their recommendations can't advertise it ?

I believe there is, i'm sure i read somewhere michelin forbade it but i have seen recently (mainly one starred) some places do mention their rating in their marketing but many still do not. Michelin certainly don't issue plates, plaques, certificates or the like

[Tonyfinch]

So no radical predictions then. All French fine dining establishments apart from Locatelli which is an Italian fine dining establishment. Ho hum.

Surely that's the nature of Michelin, Tony.

Absolutely.I was just consolidating my point in answer to Andy that the minds of the Michelin men are, in fact, drearily predictable.

[Gary Marshall]

So no radical predictions then. All French fine dining establishments apart from Locatelli which is an Italian fine dining establishment. Ho hum.

that doesn't bother me because i like that style of cooking, I suppose it's about finding a guide that matches your taste. I also find they are quite consistent and don't get sucked into raving about this years hottest new place. I don't use it so much in england as i'd use this site now but in France i've found it indispensable.

Many may feel it is weak on ethnic/'fusion' food or whatever but you know what you're getting with it and i think its good at highlighting what i'd call 'grown up' restaurants ie half decent service, decent food, wine list, napery etc, all of which i would class as michelin hallmarks. I also find the mapping extremely precise, especially comapred to the likes of Fodors/Frommers.

cheers

Gary

PS the web site www.viamichelin.com has all the guide on line and is very useful for planning trips

[cabrales]

Incidentally, when I looked at the website of Comme Chez Soi (my most recent Michelin experience) I noticed that they didn't give their Michelin rating a mention anywhere. Is this a requirement by Michelin that their recommendations can't advertise it ?

macrosan -- No, restaurants are allowed to self-advertise their Michelin ratings.

http://www.lucascarton.com/page-alain-send...te-lucas-us.htm

(Lucas Carton noting year of receipt of third star)

http://www.lucascarton.com/page-une-annee1-us.htm

(same describing Michelin three-star event at the restaurant)

http://www.troisgros.fr/anglais/accen.htm

(select "3" box on the upper left hand corner; "Founded in 1930, Troisgros celebrated in 1998 its 30 consecutive years with three Michelin stars, the most prestigious rating in France.")

[Andy Lynes]

I'm fairly sure that, although Amazon give the publication date of 1st Feb for the 2002 guide, the results are known around mid January and the guide is out before the end of the month. I am basing this on the fact that I always eat out in London on my birthday which is 25 Jan and know if we are eating in a 1, 2 or 3 star restaurant according to the latest guide. As it happens this year, for the first time in about 10 years, my wife and I are going to a restaurant in Brighton which will certainly not be starred by the new guide (Hotel and Bistro Du Vin).

[macrosan]

Thanks, Cabby, now I know Maybe Comme Chez Soi are demonstrating a massive amount of self-confidence, which on my experience there would be entirely justified.

[cabrales]

Well, CSS has few competitors at its level, given that the only other three stars in Belgium are De Karmeliet (which is in Bruges, a different city/town) and Bruneau (which is in Ganshoren, a very short distance from CSS). If a client cares about three stars, he would probably already know the identity of the very few three-stars in Belgium.

CSS is more centrally located within Brussels than Bruneau. Also, while I have never been to CSS, I believe CSS is somewhat less expensive (with respect to food) than Bruneau. CSS is very established and known in Belgium, probably more so than Bruneau. Also, based on second and third hand reports of CSS only (as I have never visited), Bruneau has a *relatively* more formal atmosphere than CSS.

Edited January 6, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[Tonyfinch]

So no radical predictions then. All French fine dining establishments apart from Locatelli which is an Italian fine dining establishment. Ho hum.

that doesn't bother me because i like that style of cooking,

Gary, we ALL like that style of cooking. But lots of us like other styles of cooking as well. And other types of restaurants. I find the fact that Micheln appears to be so important to so many people rather odd. Like Macrosan I've never bought a copy and I hardly ever consult it. Michelin's refusal to reflect even a fraction of the diversity of cuisines available in the UK is to be deeply condemned IMO. Why do people accord this guide such status?

[macrosan]

Why do people accord this guide such status?

My guess is, Tony, that less and less people are affording it the status it once had. For a start, you and I have downgraded it so surely it's just a matter of time before people get to know that ....

I first found eGullet in a desperate attempt to find something better than Zagat for New York recommendations. For the UK, I always used Egon Ronay, but when that folded I tried the Good Food Guide, and the Consumer Association book (?). I guess after giving them up as unsatisfactory I might have found eGullet that way too

I know there are some who won't like it, but I still view eGullet's main value to me as being a provider of restaurant information which I can interpret to my needs, qualify, and confidently act upon.

[Gary Marshall]

Why do people accord this guide such status?

i think it has its relevance for several reasons, certainly the chefs put great importance on it, i think MPW was the first of the modern generation to bring it to prominence and ramsay certainly seems to respect them, and they did make him wait another year for his 3rd star. The general public do seem more aware of the michelin ratings than say 5 years ago.

It also has the history and the integrity, i can't imagine the AA/petrus debacle happening at michelin and it's the only guide that uses it's own trained team of inspectors, also the fact it says v little about its workings only adds to the mystique.

I agree it's not much use away from classical cooking.

i suppose i use it more for destination restaurants or when i'm abroad but i like the fact that just because they are 'grown up' restaurants they are not necessarily expensive, i've had some great meals at the basic 1 knife and fork recommendation. and i have no problem booking a restaurant on spec from the guide if its got a star, i know it'll be what i expect, so far i've not been let down and it's led me to places i'd never have ventured into without it.

cheers

gary

[wgallois]

In response to Garry's query about Michael Caines, we ate at Gidleigh Park in the summer and really enjoyed it. The restaurant is in a very cute Cluedo-style country-house hotel and the service and cooking are very good. Lunch for two with a bottle of house wine and two extra cheese courses added to the set lunch menu was about £110 before service. The dishes that stick most in the memory were a very simple tomato tart, really well-dressed salads and a huge array of petits fours. I imagine that dinner is considerably pricier.

Caines also has a mini-empire in Exeter, where he runs the food operations for the Royal Clarence Hotel. This consists of a pretty boring deli, a cafe-bar, a pub, a really nice champagne bar, a restaurant: Michael Caines @ The Royal Clarence. The restaurant has a great setting as it is on the Cathedral Close, and the look inside is a nice mix of starched linen, modern art and dim lighting. The dish that sticks in my memory was a poached egg on salted spinach with wild mushrooms and a hollandaise sauce. Some friends have had quibbles with some dishes, but on the basis of two very satisfactory dinners I would have thought that it would deserve a star in the new Michelin.

I saw Michael Caines on a local TV programme where they quizzed celebs on specialist topics and can report that he has an amazing knowledge of South-West history.