Steamers & Steaming

[eatingwitheddie]

When you steam a Chinese dish what kind of steamer do you use?

What dishes do you steam?

[cabrales]

On steaming, note that, in addition to steamers, there are opportunities are steaming inherent when one makes rice using a rice cooker. One can place various Chinese sausages, salted fish and other self-contained items on top of rice.

[Jinmyo]

I have a huge Korean metal steamer contraption I use for vegetables or vegetables mixed with Sa ho noodles.

I use stacks of bamboo steamers of assorted sizes for dumplings or dim sum.

I use bamboo and banana or lotus leaves for steaming fish.

[Miss J]

I use a large bamboo steamer. I only have one. This is due to kitchen space more than anything else.

At the moment I just pop my steamer on a stand in my wok, and it seems to work pretty well. Dumplings, things-wrapped-in-lotus-leaves and fish in fine, clear broth have all tasted/felt good. However, as I've mentioned elsewhere I'm learning my Asian cookery from books rather than life, so I'm at a bit of a loss when it comes to finding out "better" ways to do things. (And obviously, I'm at a loss when it comes to evaluating whether a finished dish is really good, or good by my uneducated standards.)

[Human Bean]

I have a rather cheap and grungy aluminum steamer with three trays, which is usually only used for dim sum.

When I'm steaming other things (generally fish) I use whatever's closest at the moment - a plate in a wok, held up with chopsticks, a plate in a pot, held up with a wire rack-thing, or a steamer basket insert in a pot. I have a steamer insert for my rice cooker too; I may have used it once or twice.

[eatingwitheddie]

I usually steam fish. I put it on a plate, season it and place it in a covered bamboo steamer that is placed over a wok. Most often I set up my electric wok and use it exclusively for this purpose. Since I have a very small stove but lots of counter space, using my electric wok this way increases my produciton capacity.

[Degustation]

I'm with Human Bean, I use what's at hand - usually the chopsticks in the wok if I'm steaming a large dish or I can use the insert with the rice cooker if it's a small item (like one BBQ pork bun). I usually steam items like fish; stuffed tofu, eggplant, or bitter melon; meat cakes (like beef and waterchestnuts, or pork and chinese sausage - I'm going to try a new one my mom suggested - pork with chinese sausage, water chestnuts, shitake mushrooms and dried oysters); savoury egg custard with shrimp paste; duck egg custard with pork and waterchestnuts; or even chicken with taro root and chinese sausage.

[cabrales]

It would be wonderful if I could steam chawanmushi. However, that does not appear to be an attainable goal right now.

[Suzanne F]

I'm curious -- is there a general rule for how long to steam a whole fish? I'd love to do it, and have a big enough steamer tray for my wok, but have no idea. So long per pound, or some such? Is it different for whole, fillets, and steaks?

And what happens to the fish if you overcook it? Does the flesh dry out as it would with other cooking methods?

[Degustation]

For a whole fish, I think the rule is approximately 10 minutes per each 1 inch thickness at its thickest part. I generally then check it by poking at the thickest part to see if it flakes easily, which indicates that it is done.

[eatingwitheddie]

For a whole fish, I think the rule is approximately 10 minutes per each 1 inch thickness at its thickest part.  I generally then check it by poking at the thickest part to see if it flakes easily, which indicates that it is done.

10 minutes per inch of thickness sounds about right, though I might err on the side of less rather than more time.

Just as importantly there are two methods for flavoring the fish. When you steam something a lot of water condenses on the plate. If you have used a seasoning sauce directly on the fish before steaming it will be diluted so you need to OVER-flavor the fish so that when the sauce becomes dilute it tastes exactly right. This is best suited for a thin piece of fish that cooks quickly. For instance I steam thin (1/2" thick) salmon filets in just 3-4 minutes. If I were going to steam it much longer I would pour off and discard the accumulated condensed water right after removing the fish from the steamer. I would then pour a seasoning sauce directly over the fish. Alternatively I might cover the fish with a clear heatproof wrap to prevent the water condensation

[Varmint]

I see a lot of recipes suggesting you steam with sake, wine, or other liquids outside of water. Do you find that the aromatic nature of these liquids has any effect on the ultimate steamed product?

[cabrales]

For whole fish steamed Chinese style, an alternative is to season a bit before steaming and then pour heated oil (sometimes mixed with soy sauce and/or chopped spring onions or ginger) over the skin of the fish when the steaming is completed.

For steamed fish, members might wish to consider sampling in particular the cheeks and the gelatinous material inside the head.

Edited January 3, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[Varmint]

That's a method that Nobu Matsuhisa uses quite frequently to cook his fish. It's quite elegant and tasty.

[Jon Tseng]

For whole fish steamed Chinese style, an alternative is to season a bit before steaming and then pour heated oil (sometimes mixed with soy sauce and/or chopped spring onions or ginger) over the skin of the fish when the steaming is completed.

For steamed fish, members might wish to consider sampling in particular the cheeks and the gelatinous material inside the head.

chawanmushi can also be done in a water bath - its actually dead simple to do

i agree with the heated oil on fish stuff. make sure the oil is really really hot (suspect this is where nobu nicked his new style sashimi idea from - albeit he used raw fish)

in addition to cheeks and head stuff, fish eyes get good review, although never really got the hang of them

re steamers i have a tiddly bamboo steamer I use, although will add just singed the bottom as had it sat on a metal rimmed saucepan (bad idea). alternately a sieve over a pan (or even better, one of the flat oil splatter shields) does well at a pinch

at home we have a kick ass metal monster with a big bowl at the bottom and several large (30cm+) layers you can stack or take off as required

cheerio

J

[cabrales]

Varmint -- What is your plan regarding whether the fish to be steamed will be kept alive until shortly prior to steaming? Do you plan to utilize relatively freshly terminated fish (this represents a departure from French and US cuisine practices of receiving fish that has been killed and then placed over ice)?

I love Chawanmushi and Chinese steamed egg preparations.

Edited January 3, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[Varmint]

I don't have any specific plan, Cabrales. My question regarding steaming was more general in nature. Not being right on the coast, any fish that I use will be dead for a minimum of 12 hours, having been trucked in. How does the time of death impact the cooking?

[cabrales]

How does the time of death impact the cooking?

Varmint -- That's a question (together with the question of how the time of death impacts the taste of the fish) on which I do not have meaningful insight.

However, there is a reason that many Chinese restaurants have fishtanks. In at least modern Chinese cuisine, the idea is that "fresh" fish (i.e., fish killed for the purposes of the meal shortly before the fish is cooked) is more delicious, *particularly for steaming*, than fish that has been lying around dead for a while. Fat Guy and I discussed briefly a long time ago whether, under the alternative view, it might not be good to keep fish alive in tanks for meaningful periods of time. For me, this is a very interesting question.

On the Nobu new style sashimi, when jordyn and I visited Morimoto's Philly restaurant and ordered omakase, we received a dish with hot oil similarly poured over the sashimi as well.

Edited January 3, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[eatingwitheddie]

I see a lot of recipes suggesting you steam with sake, wine, or other liquids outside of water.  Do you find that the aromatic nature of these liquids has any effect on the ultimate steamed product?

very little if any

[tissue]

For whole fish steamed Chinese style, an alternative is to season a bit before steaming and then pour heated oil (sometimes mixed with soy sauce and/or chopped spring onions or ginger) over the skin of the fish when the steaming is completed.

.

You aren't supposed to chop the scallions. You are supposed to slice it parallel to the grain so it curls in thin strips while it heats in the sauce/oil. The sauce should be watery, not viscous, unless you are making another dish, but not for HK style steamed fish. For a short cut, I use Lee Kum Kee steam fish sauce for this. It's great. Oh yeah, and I microwave my fish. I always place cilantro over my fish before I pour the sauce on it, because I think it adds another flavor. I have my fish under 10 minutes. I'm sure a lot of purists will be pretty miffed about my microwaving my freshly slaughtered fish, but it cooks evenly for me. Depends on what type of fish you buy.

[Human Bean]

The discussion of steaming fish seems to have become fixated on steaming whole fish. That's fine; make diagonal slashes in the body before steaming a whole fish, but I rarely steam whole fish. The kinds of whole fish suitable for steaming that are readily available here seem to tend towards trout and tilapia, and I'm not particularly fond of them. Well, trout is fine, but I prefer Pacific Ocean fish that are mostly too large to steam whole. I'm talking about salmon, snapper, and halibut.

I steam fillets of those fish. The generic preparation is to sprinkle soy sauce (or rarely, plain salt) on the fillet, then add fresh ginger slices on top; not to cover the surface, but leave about an inch between slices. Steam; that's it. Thoroughly satisfying, and no oil taste from cooking; regardless of the tastelessness of the oil, I don't generally like pan-fried fish.

Variations can include adding lemon slices before steaming. I'm not entirely happy with this; some bitterness from the lemon can get into the fish. [Hmm, Meyer lemons; I need to try this; at the moment, they're in season and available]. Less successful variations that I've tried include covering the fish/ginger with lemon basil (from the garden, lemon flavor didn't transfer to the fish, and the steamed basil was worse than overcooked spinach); and covering the fish/ginger with lemon verbena (again, from the garden, the lemon flavor didn't transfer, and the cooked verbena was far too tough).

[Jinmyo]

On the Nobu new style sashimi, when jordyn and I visited Morimoto's Philly restaurant and ordered omakase, we received a dish with hot oil similarly poured over the sashimi as well.

I've seen finishing a steamed dish with a final lash of hot oil done many many times in Chinese restaurants. Ed?

[Suzanne F]

May we also discuss steaming of meats? Or rather, may I ask about this, too? It seems much less commonly done than steaming fish, but aren't there meatballs that are steamed? Anything else?

BTW: thanks, Ed, for starting this thread. It's opened up a whole new world to me.

[SteveW]

On the Nobu new style sashimi, when jordyn and I visited Morimoto's Philly restaurant and ordered omakase, we received a dish with hot oil similarly poured over the sashimi as well.

I've seen finishing a steamed dish with a final lash of hot oil done many many times in Chinese restaurants. Ed?

Jinmyo, the pouring of very very hot oil on a steamed fish, was discussed earlier by cabrales in a earlier post, of the same thread. Yes, I've seen it done in many many of the Chinese restaurants. I've done it myself at home.

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Steve

[Jinmyo]

Steve, I often see Nobu mentioned when the hot oil sear is mentioned. But everybody's been doing it for a long time. I've had it in Beijing. And a "French" restaurant in Nigeria did this with a steamed snapper.

Suzanne, minced meats are often steamed. Whether inside dumplings or as meat balls. I'll steam leftover char siu pork to refresh it.

But steamed chicken gives me the willies.