Stand Mixers 2002 – 2011

[cbread]

I don't understand a device promoted as "Pro" being made with low grade wimpy machine design for amateurs. I guess KA is implicitly saying that if you want it to last, buy a Hobart.

[dougal]

Chad - sorry to hear of your hassle and disappointment.

We really must convert you to weight measures!

However, for a domestic mixer, that you can lift and put away in a cupboard, and yet is able to handle a LARGE batch of dough, take a look at the Electrolux DLX. Start right here with the references in this thread.

And its meat grinder attachment really does make the KA part look like a plastic toy.

Has anyone (even by gross stupidity) managed to damage a DLX?

[andiesenji]

Chad - sorry to hear of your hassle and disappointment.

We really must convert you to weight measures!

However, for a domestic mixer, that you can lift and put away in a cupboard, and yet is able to handle a LARGE batch of dough, take a look at the Electrolux DLX. Start right here with the references in this thread.

And its meat grinder attachment really does make the KA part look like a plastic toy.

Has anyone (even by gross stupidity) managed to damage a DLX?

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I've used mine for some pretty tough jobs and while it may sometimes groan a bit, it keeps going.

While the toughest bread dough I have prepared in it is Peter Reinhart's Struan bread, I also use the DLX to mix the fruit and nut stuff I make into confections. The mixture is heavy, stiff and very sticky. I use the dough hook and it works like a charm to blend the mixture. I have never attempted to put the stuff into a KA because I am sure it would fail.

When I had my Hobart 10 qt., I used it to mix the stuff with no problems but that mixer had a truly "heavy-duty" motor and gears.

Frankly, I am not at all pleased with the KA 600 I bought in Nov. of '07. When changing speeds, it pauses and jerks and tosses dry stuff all over the counter (and me) and there is not a smooth transition as speed increases. It may just be the machine that I have but it goes from very slow to fairly fast and there is not really a true "medium" speed or what I consider medium.

Compared to the older 5 qt KA, which I still use because I have a copper bowl for it for whipping egg whites, the speed control is unsatisfactory. In the 5 qt the speeds go from very slow to slow, medium slow, medium, and so on to fast with no jerky hesitations and so forth.

Has anyone else noticed this problem or even consider it a problem?

[Chad]

Chad - sorry to hear of your hassle and disappointment.

We really must convert you to weight measures!

However, for a domestic mixer, that you can lift and put away in a cupboard, and yet is able to handle a LARGE batch of dough, take a look at the Electrolux DLX. Start right here with the references in this thread.

And its meat grinder attachment really does make the KA part look like a plastic toy.

Has anyone (even by gross stupidity) managed to damage a DLX?

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Thanks, dougal. I generally do use weights when I bake, but I make this particular sandwich bread twice a week. I know it well enough (and there is enough flex in the recipe) that I don't need to weigh.

The Electrolux DLX keeps coming up. I'm going to have to give it some serious consideration. Part of the reason I feel stuck with the Kitchenaid is that I have, and use, most of the accessories. It's kind of like being a Nikon or Canon photographer. Once you have a collection of lenses, changing bodies, even if something truly spectacular is available, becomes a lot more complicated. However, I did see the full DLX accessory kit available at a reasonable price at EverythingKitchens.com. That might be enough to tip the balance. I use the Kitchenaid meat grinder and fruit/vegetable strainer regularly, so if the DLX's are comparable I'll have to see what the budget will bear. I keep hoping to find some church or civic group getting rid of a Hobart N50 for some ridiculously low price. A man can dream, can't he?

Chad

[carp]

Here's the latest on the dead Kitchenaid Professional 600 front . . .

If you own a pre-2006 Kitchenaid Professional 600, be aware that it will probably come to a grinding, screeching halt if you make a lot of bread. When it crashes you will be assaulted by one of the most painful and soul-crushing sounds you are likely to hear in a kitchen. Your beautiful mixer is dead. What is worse, Kitchenaid just doesn’t give a damn.

My Professional 600 was a gift from my wife, who thought she was buying her bread-crazy husband the biggest, baddest mixer on the block. It is certainly marketed that way.

The overachiever of the stand mixer family, it has a Flour Power rating of 14 cups. That means it can mix enough dough for 8 loaves of bread or 13 dozen cookies in a single bowl …. Powerfully churns through yeast bread dough and triple batches of cookie dough.

So why did my 8-cup soft sandwich bread recipe kill it? As it turns out, the Professional 600 mixers made before August of 2006 have a plastic gear housing that is completely inadequate for the size of the motor. Put a strain on the mixing head — bread dough, for instance — and the housing flexes, throwing the whole gear train out of alignment. When that happens every gear strips, locking up the whole assembly and causing an ear splitting shriek that will be etched in your memory forever. It is a horrible sound. Kitchenaid redesigned the gear housing in 2006, replacing it with a metal housing capable of taking the load put out by the motor. They repaired the Professional 600s that died under warranty but didn’t put out a service bulletin or recall notice for the others. We were left on our own. You see, the mixer doesn’t self destruct the first time you use it, the problem is cumulative. The flex gets worse with time until one day the gearbox flexes just far enough to cause a train wreck. It happened often enough that the Kitchenaid engineers built a new gearbox. They just didn’t tell the rest of us. It took an engineer with a dead mixer to find out why the gears stripped the way they did.

My mixer is out of warranty so I wanted to see what my options were. I did a little research and found dozens of other Professional 600 owners who experienced exaclty the symptoms and mixer death. One of them was an engineer who took his mixer apart. It was he who discovered why the gears stripped the way they did. There was a detailed analysis with photos on his website, but it is no longer available. Given that this was a known design flaw — one that Kitchenaid admitted when redesigning the gearbox — I asked them to cover the repair of my mixer. They refused, charging me $150 to replace the gears and gearbox housing. Their customer service representative claimed A) that mixing 8 cups of flour for seven minutes, rather than the recommended five, was responsible for the lockup that killed the mixer, and B) that while the gearbox did indeed crack, the gears stripped first, so the gearbox couldn’t have been the problem. I pointed out that the gearbox flexes, causing the gears to strip before the housing cracks but she didn’t want to hear it. The problem was obviously my fault, and her tone suggested that I was probably lying about only mixing 8 cups of flour. It was an infuriating conversation. In short, Kitchenaid markets the Professional 600 as a heavy duty mixer designed to knead bread dough knowing that 90% of their customers are going to be making cakes, cookies and meringues, which put no strain on the motor. It’s the 10% of us who do bake bread (or use the meat grinder) on a regular basis who are fucked because Kitchenaid won’t stand behind its products.

Chad

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A couple of years ago I tried making my own rice flour by grinding some rice using the grain mill attachment. About half a cup into the operation, the mixer made a terrible sound signaling that rice flour was not going to be in my immediate future. $100 later, my local Kitchenaid repair shop returned my mixer, newly improved.

[eatrustic]

[The Electrolux DLX keeps coming up. I'm going to have to give it some serious consideration. Part of the reason I feel stuck with the Kitchenaid is that I have, and use, most of the accessories. It's kind of like being a Nikon or Canon photographer. Once you have a collection of lenses, changing bodies, even if something truly spectacular is available, becomes a lot more complicated. However, I did see the full DLX accessory kit available at a reasonable price at EverythingKitchens.com. That might be enough to tip the balance. I use the Kitchenaid meat grinder and fruit/vegetable strainer regularly, so if the DLX's are comparable I'll have to see what the budget will bear. I keep hoping to find some church or civic group getting rid of a Hobart N50 for some ridiculously low price. A man can dream, can't he?

Chad

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I own the DLX (as well as an older Kenwood Major which is the larger version of the Kenwood Chef mixer).

I've owned the DLX for about 2 years now but have never fallen in love with it's bread making capabilities. I'm a professional baker and have used just about every kind of mixer home and away there is. The DLX looks hearbreakingly close to a spiral mixer which is just about the ultimate in professional mixing technology.

Instead, I find the DLX to be very low tech in it's approach to mixing (not necessarily a bad thing but in this case it doesn't quite live up to it's hype). The roller system does do a pretty good job of creaming butter and sugar for making cookies, biscotti etc. but I find I have to continually put my fingers or a spatula into the mixing process to move things along.

The dough hook which many have found to be underwhelming is excellent for incorporating ingredients into biscotti etc. but it sure didn't do much for moving bread dough in an efficient manner.

Another thing that bugs me with the DLX is the separate bowl required for whisking, I make everything from stiff multigrain doughs to very wet Italian style doughs and it would be nice to start with a paddle/whisk to mix a wet dough and then switch quickly to the hook to finish.

Of all the home mixers I've tried the Kenwood has worked the best (but still requires lots of stopping and scraping the dough around). The various KA's I've used have been last on my list for bread doughs. They all seem to be suited to pastry vs bread production.

I have seen mini spiral mixers for home use in some of the Italian Espresso machine showrooms but they are pricey and with the rep that Italian machinery often has for being unreliable I've held back.

I would recommend you try and find someone with a DLX to see if you can make a trial batch of your favorite bread dough before making the leap.

Wouldn't it be great if there was a mixer shop like Epicurean Edge where you could go in and lay hands on all the toys

[paulraphael]

I've had nothing but good luck with a KA pro 600 and bread dough. BUT--I make only very slack, high hydration breads ... ones which are a nuissance to handle but easy to mix. And my mixer is a post 06 model with a metal (injection molded zinc) transmission housing. At any rate, I've done back to back batches of bread and pizz dough without the thing getting more than luke warm.

For stiffer doughs, especially ones that need to mix for a long time, I can imagine it would be a different story. You wouldn't want to use it in a production environment for that. A hobart would be a much more reasonable choice if you like to use a stand mixer.

Carp, based on some snooping around on the forums at the KA site, it seems that the grain mill is responsible for more mixer failures than any other single cause (besides maybe wanton abuse). For whatever reason, that attachment seems to strain the mixer more than anything else. A huge number of people with the old, plastic transmission housing had their failures when milling flour. Caveat emptor!

Edited April 14, 2009 by paulraphael (log)

[eatrustic]

\

For stiffer doughs, especially ones that need to mix for a long time, I can imagine it would be a different story. You wouldn't want to use it in a production environment for that. A hobart would be a much more reasonable choice if you like to use a stand mixer.

Just to be clear, all my comments on DLX, KA etc. were based on home use, not production for which they are obviously not suited.

[dougal]

... I own the DLX (as well as an older Kenwood Major which is the larger version of the Kenwood Chef mixer).

I've owned the DLX for about 2 years now but have never fallen in love with it's bread making capabilities. I'm a professional baker and have used just about every kind of mixer home and away there is.

... I find I have to continually put my fingers or a spatula into the mixing process to move things along.

The dough hook which many have found to be underwhelming is excellent for incorporating ingredients into biscotti etc. but it sure didn't do much for moving bread dough in an efficient manner.

...

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I don't think the DLX is perfect, but I do think its the best home mixer for large domestic quantity dough mixing that I've come across.

Its rugged.

But it does pretty much demand an odd technique.

Contrary to all normal dough making practice, one should start with all the liquid in the bowl, get it turning, and then progressively incorporate the flour.

This seems un-natural, but its the best way to use the DLX.

Its the method that the capable lady demonstrator uses in the demo video -

http://www.everythingkitchens.com/electroluxvideo.html (a couple of minutes in, after the factory scenes, she demo's each attachment sequentially, starting with the roller, then the hook.)

I've found the roller to be best for small quantities of dough (where one might not even bother with a mixer) - but the roller does get trickier over about 500g (roughly 1lb) of flour. And equally the dough hook comes into its own with larger quantities - I think it needs 700g (say 1.5lb) of flour before it gets going properly. I haven't explored the upper limits of its capacity, but see no reason to question the manufacturer's claims (15lb of dough) - it'll handle a LOT of dough by domestic standards! And its a mixer that can be picked up and put away in a cupboard (by one person!)

I've acquired the meat grinder accessory, and can confirm that it is impressively serious (and effective) compared to the KA and Kenwood attachments.

Edited April 15, 2009 by dougal (log)

[andiesenji]

I received a free meat grinder with the KA 600 and used it once to try it out. It "froze" after a few minutes operation on a relatively easy job (cheddar cheese and pimentos) and I was unable to take it apart, even using a big channel-lock pliers. It went immediately into the trash. It seemed to be made entirely of plastic, except for the dies.

Since I hadn't paid for it, I saw no reason to complain.

I have the all-metal (cast aluminum for the housing) meat grinder for at least one of my collectible "vintage" K-3 A or B KAs and I do recall trying one out years ago with satisfactory results, but that was in the days when they were made by Hobart!

However, I have had stand-alone meat grinders for many years so really had no reason to use the KA attachment - same with the other accessories.

[paulraphael]

The all metal hobart grinders attachments (vintage KA) are readily available on ebay. They cost more than the new plastic ones, but less than what the elecrolux ones cost on the site linked above. The plastic ones are popular because many people prefer a tool that can be put in the dishwasher over a tool that works

I have a metal one ... no idea what year it's from. It's a workhorse. I've ground many lbs of meat in a single session and it just hums away. Mixer gets slightly warm.

With any meat grinder it's important for ingredients to be prepped properly, otherwise they can gum up and jam the machine. Meat should be very cold ... partially frozen. This keeps it stiff and keeps the fat from melting and turning to goo from the machine's friction. The disks and blades on these are carbon steel and need to be washed and dried well immediately after use. A light coat of oil is a good idea if you don't it often.

[eatrustic]

Maybe it's time to stop fooling around and drop a grand on this 8 qt. bad boy: Globe Mixer

I bet this won't jump around on the counter while mixing and the motor head looks like an homage to Aliens

[paulraphael]

Maybe it's time to stop fooling around and drop a grand on this 8 qt. bad boy: Globe Mixer

I bet this won't jump around on the counter while mixing and the motor head looks like an homage to Aliens 

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I'm not familiar with the brand. Personally, i wanted to go hardcore with mixing, I'd keep my KA for 90% of tasks, and then for the heavy stuff get a 10qt or 20qt countertop Hobart. These can be had for reasonable amounts of money on ebay, assuming you live close enough to pick up in person. Shipping is a bitch!

Hobart has the widest availability of parts, accessories, and service in the industry.

I don't think the commercial mixers are a 100% substitute for home mixers, because they're less convenient to use. The big ones are really big. The smaller ones have much narrower bowls than the KA pro models, which makes it messier to add ingredients. And the geared, 3-speed transmissssions, while superior in terms of performance, are a lot less convenient to use.

I think most people would end up using their KA for most tasks, and then stepping up to the big mixer for things like large scale bread and pizza production, wedding cakes, or making 4X and 6X batches of cookies.

[Lisa Shock]

I agree that professional models are not generally suited for home use, unless you have a really large family. It's almost impossible to mix up ingredients for, say, one cake in a 10qt or larger mixer.

That said, I purchased the DeLonghi DSM7, 7 quart mixer in March of 2007 and have really enjoyed owning it and many of its accessories. (this is the 6.6L Kenwood in the UK) It has a 1,000 watt motor and has been able to take anything I have thrown at it. I have the grain grinder, pasta maker, juicer, citrus juicer, and slicer/shredder.

I make bread every week. I usually make pizza once a week, but I make a triple batch of dough so that we can have calzones for lunch or dinner on following days. I also make all of the baked goods that my family eats from scratch and send large batches to my husband's office parties. Every couple of week I process a large amount, some of it very hard -like quince, of fruit in the juicer to make sorbets. And, with food being so expensive, I have been using the slicer/shredder to break down cabbage for coleslaws.

So, I do use the mixer quite often, and make batches close to its capacity at least once a week.

I know that amazon got some poor reviews of this mixer because of their weird customer service, but, it's been a great home mixer for me at a pretty reasonable price. At the time I purchased it, the KA professional models all had the plastic gear, and it seemed foolish to buy one. I have no regrets.

[jayt90]

That said, I purchased the DeLonghi DSM7, 7 quart mixer in March of 2007 and have really enjoyed owning it and many of its accessories. (this is the 6.6L Kenwood in the UK) It has a 1,000 watt motor and has been able to take anything I have thrown at it. I have the grain grinder, pasta maker, juicer, citrus juicer, and slicer/shredder.

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Do you get the full power and torque of the 1000watt motor when kneading dough at a low speed? This has been a criticism of some other machines.

[Lisa Shock]

That said, I purchased the DeLonghi DSM7, 7 quart mixer in March of 2007 and have really enjoyed owning it and many of its accessories. (this is the 6.6L Kenwood in the UK) It has a 1,000 watt motor and has been able to take anything I have thrown at it. I have the grain grinder, pasta maker, juicer, citrus juicer, and slicer/shredder.

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Do you get the full power and torque of the 1000watt motor when kneading dough at a low speed? This has been a criticism of some other machines.

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It's quite good. Some person reviewing it on amazon hooked one up to a meter and found that the machine usually only uses a couple hundred watts, but jumped up for them when it his tougher materials and started using 400+. When I mix thin, small batches of things, there's a small rattly noise as if the motor doesn't have enough to do. (The husband says that's pretty common for motors operating without their usual load.) But, I routinely mix doughs where I leave it on for ten minutes to develop huge windowpanes and it's fine.

The only time I ever had the motor really have to push was one time when I was juicing a case of apples. The juicer attachment says that it's 'continuous' but, a small amount of residue gets stuck inside and after a while, after my second quart of apple juice, it is enough to stop the motion of the juicer. But, pulling it off and a quickly running a towel on the inside groove to dislodge the pulp was all it took to be back in business.

I would also like to point out that I have seen brand new DSM7 machines sell on eBay for $100 because some consumers couldn't figure out how to place the whip, dough hook and paddle on the machine. It's a pretty simple push and turn motion for me. -And a bargain on eBay for someone else.

[paulraphael]

Do you get the full power and torque of the 1000watt motor when kneading dough at a low speed? This has been a criticism of some other machines.

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Consider all the wattage claims meaningless. Like, 100% meaningless. Either it's a good motor, well matched to its electronics and transmission for its expected use, or it's not.

The only mixers that will give you full power at low speeds are commercial mixers with a geared transmission. All of these that I know of have three speeds, selected with a lever. You have to bring the mixer to a full stop to shift gears. The motor always runs at its optimum speed, where it's capable of putting out full power.

This is why a hobart k5, that draws maybe 300 watts at a rare peak, can spank any 1000 watt consumer mixer. But the best consumer mixers are still good enough for anything you're likely to throw at them, if you can overlook the Russian Roulette factor imposed by all the companies' notorious quality control debacles.

[LaMiaCucina]

I recently purchased a new Bosch Universal Plus mixer after becoming discouraged with the new KA (as opposed to the Hobart-built KA). With a hectic baking schedule coming up, I wanted to test it out to be sure that my recipes are going to come out right. So far, the only thing that is half-decent is a bread and a cookie I made this past week. Everything else has been a disaster.

I had the oven checked recently, but all signs are pointing to something being off. The (I do have a thermometer.) Even so, the issues I'm having are either from the new mixer or, I have no clue. I should also say that the last few test runs were made without my pizza stone at the bottom of the oven.

Here are my problems:

Cakes are taking far too long to bake.

Cake edges are peeling off once baked.

Cake edges that don't peel off are hard and dry.

Edges of cookies are too brown.

Also, do any of you that have Bosch mixers have any tips for me regarding cake and cookie baking? I would hate to return it, but I can't seem to get it working right. No matter how much I scrape that center post, I can't seem to get it right.

Thanks.

[Lisa Shock]

Are you weighing your ingredients? If not, I recommend purchasing a scale.

Have you recently changed brands of flour? Have you tried cake flour?

Is your baking powder more than 6 months old? If yes, replace it.

Have you made any other substitutions in your recipes, like soymilk instead of whole milk?

I suspect that your oven is not hot enough, or has hot and cold spots. Move the thermometer around a bit and see if you get different readings. Putting the pizza stone back, or some tiles in could remedy this. You may want to try pre-heating at a higher temperature -if you are not using the pizza stone.

I doubt the mixer is affecting much, unless you are so thrilled by it that you are mixing it way too long just to see it in action.

Good luck! I know this is frustrating!

[CanadianBakin']

I've had a Bosch Universal for about 4 years now and I love it! I've never had a problem with it affecting my recipes but I was only using a hand mixer before. If you are depending on beating at each step for a certain amount of time rather than how your batter looks, that could be the problem. As you know, it's function is different than a Kitchen Aid so the timing will likely be a bit different.

[highchef]

too brown cookies, chill first in smaller batches. Cakes larger than say 9" are needing a cone..I have to think it's not the tool, it's the baker, It's not an insult, it's an insight. cones are simple, buyable, just get one.

[LaMiaCucina]

No offense taken, HighChef. The thing is, I've been making some of these recipes for almost 30 years, so I know it isn't the baker.

One thing I did discover yesterday is that, apparently, my "Martha Stewart professional oven thermometer" is not working! Hmmph! It is fairly new, so I'm not happy. What brand would you all recommend?

In any case, I'll put the stone back and try again. It could very well be that my oven is on the fritz, in which case, double hmmph!

[bethanyhoffman]

I have had these same speed control issues with my [~ 15 year old 5 qt. KA heavy duty] mixer too. I thought it was just the way they were made for a while, but having used the same model of mixer in several other households, I now know that my unit was just always 'off.. Unlike other mixers, it has always been very jerky moving between speeds, and also starts pretty fast. The amount of flour/cocoa/powdered sugar spray to which this leads means that the area around my mixer, to say nothing of the mixer itself, is never clean. Now this mixer has finally died I'm looking for a replacement, but having spent an erstwhile fortune in extra bowls/beaters/whips, etc.. I'm going to be pretty limited in terms of the models since I want to continue using all of these.

Frankly, I am not at all pleased with the KA 600 I bought in Nov. of '07.  When changing speeds, it pauses and jerks and tosses dry stuff all over the counter (and me) and there is not a smooth transition as speed increases.  It may just be the machine that I have but it goes from very slow to fairly fast and there is not really a true "medium" speed or what I consider medium. 

Compared to the older 5 qt KA, which I still use because I have a copper bowl for it for whipping egg whites,  the speed control is unsatisfactory.  In the 5 qt the speeds go from very slow to slow, medium slow, medium, and so on to fast with no jerky hesitations and so forth. 

Has anyone else noticed this problem or even consider it a problem?

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[bethanyhoffman]

I'm looking for info on the Kitchenaid commercial 5 qt. model Km25gox. My 15 year old Kitchenaid 5 qt. heavy duty lift-bowl mixer recently died, and I'm looking to replace it with a model that will acommodate all the extra bowls and beaters etc. that I accumulated over the years as well as working just as well if not better than my old one. There have been so many complaints about the newer KA models, and i definitely push my mixer with heavy use including bread doughs like stiff bagel dough, etc., so I don't want to end up with the fancy units that doesn't have the oomph for serious use. It LOOKS like the commercial 5 qt and the pro 500 are the only two available of the same basic design as my old one. Only the commercial looks like it has the much-touted new-style kneading arm, as well as being slightly sturdier and more powerful, so I'm inclined to go for that one. I would prefer to buy it locally, but it seems like a specialty offering not available at the usual retailers and I think I'll have to buy it online. Any experiences with this unit? And does anyone know if the panoply of 5 qt. lift bowl accessories (beaters, bowls, etc.) are compatible with the commercial unit? Thanks

Good but not great. Admittedly, my usage tends to pretty sturdy stuff: kneading and rolling pasta, grinding and beating sausage meats. A few months ago, using the machine for the latter, it started to whine a little bit as if the motor were being pushed too hand, and since then it's still been a bit screechy. I have been trotting out the old machine to do the grinding as a result.

Having said that, for most other tasks, it's been great. Good paddle and whisk reach, very powerful, good capacity, extremely fast on small jobs (whisking egg whites is a breeze). I'll check in with the wife/baker tonight to see what she wants to add.

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[Tony Boulton]

Also, do any of you that have Bosch mixers have any tips for me regarding cake and cookie baking?  I would hate to return it, but I can't seem to get it working right.  No matter how much I scrape that center post, I can't seem to get it right.

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Have you bought the cookie paddles? These are pretty essential for cookie dough.