Jelly-like mass in canned chickpeas

[Darienne]

Googled this heading but couldn't find a very satisfactory answer. Some say 'throw them out' while others say 'no problem'.

For supper, Ed had put together one of his great pea soups which starts with Habitant French-Canadian Pea Soup (sorry Yankees) to which he adds a lot of fresh and cooked stuff. But he couldn't find a can of chick peas.

Well, the master finder found some chick peas and the opened can was full of jelly, instead of just thick 'juice'. Hemmed and hawed briefly. Rinsed the peas and added them to my soup. Ed did not partake.

Later last night...boy was I sick. No descriptions are needed or welcomed. This morning I still feel oogy.

Could it have been the chickpeas? They don't smell. They look fine. They are also in the composter.

[Mjx]

Offhand, I'd say the gloop was gelatinized starch, but it could also have indicated some sort of bacterial growth (lots of nasties, e.g. C. botulinum, have no smell, that's never a safe indicator).

I've come across tinned legumes of various sorts where the liquid had gone thick, and rinsed them well, then brought them to a boil in enough water to cover, and boiled them for 10+ minutes (I routinely do an extended boil for pretty much all vacuum packed/tinned goods goods, regardless).

According to the CDC's downloadable Botulism Manual (1998), 'Botulinum toxin can be inactivated by heating to 176°F (80°C). Therefore, heating home-canned foods before consumption can reduce the risk of botulism intoxication.'); I've never had any problems.

However, if in doubt (and botulism isn't the only possible pathogen, you can spend heaps of time freaking yourself out, investigating the CDC site), it can't hurt to err on the side of caution, and toss them.

[Darienne]

Thanks MJX for the reply, although I'm not quite sure that the reading is very enjoyable. A few pages was enough for me right now.

One of the google bits did speak of boiling the vegetables, something I have never done, or even heard of, but shall do from now on. Thanks for that good advice.

I did take a food-handling course a few years ago and now am looking at the "Foodborne Illness Reference Chart". Arrgghhh!

Thanks again.

[gfweb]

If it was the peas it wasn't botulism. That isn't a GI thing, it paralyzes and you die because you can't breathe.

[gfweb]

Offhand, I'd say the gloop was gelatinized starch, but it could also have indicated some sort of bacterial growth (lots of nasties, e.g. C. botulinum, have no smell, that's never a safe indicator).

I've come across tinned legumes of various sorts where the liquid had gone thick, and rinsed them well, then brought them to a boil in enough water to cover, and boiled them for 10+ minutes (I routinely do an extended boil for pretty much all vacuum packed/tinned goods goods, regardless).

According to the CDC's downloadable Botulism Manual (1998), 'Botulinum toxin can be inactivated by heating to 176°F (80°C). Therefore, heating home-canned foods before consumption can reduce the risk of botulism intoxication.'); I've never had any problems.

However, if in doubt (and botulism isn't the only possible pathogen, you can spend heaps of time freaking yourself out, investigating the CDC site), it can't hurt to err on the side of caution, and toss them.

I don't think that it is true that C.botulinum is odorless. Anaerobes can't completely metabolize carbohydrate and make a lot of smelly fatty acids as byproducts. But it is certainly true that no smell doesn't equal "safe".

[annabelle]

Are you thinking of C. perfringens, gfweb? It certainly does smell since it is the cause of gas gangrene, as you know, as well as food poisoning.

[gfweb]

IIRC all clostridia stink. The cited CDC website even says food can smell funny w C. botulinum.

I could of course be wrong.

Edited March 18, 2012 by gfweb (log)

[Panaderia Canadiense]

Food poisoning - it's what's for dinner!

On a more serious note - Darienne, whenever I open a can of anything and it seems funky to me or abnormal, even if it doesn't smell, I turf it. I won't even chance the boiling (although that would probably be just fine, as the CDC website points out) because although I've normally got a cast-iron stomach, I hate having food-borne illnesses so much - there's nothing like spending your birthday in the bathroom retching to make you cautious! I won't venture what exactly was wrong with the chickpeas, but they're a likely culprit as they weren't normal coming out of the can and since Ed wasn't sick but you were.

And this all being in the past, you can chalk it up as an important lesson about canned beans and for certain the next time you find jellied chickpeas or whatnot you won't be eating them, yes? At least, not without boiling or pressure cooking them first? (That said, if you've got a pressure cooker, it's no big thing to prepare dried chickpeas, is it?)

[gfweb]

Cooking doesn't destroy all food poisoning toxins

[annabelle]

The Philastines at my house are apparently right about chickpeas being evil ju-ju.

gfweb, you're right about all clostridia being smelly.

[annabelle]

Cooking doesn't destroy all food poisoning toxins

No it doesn't. It's like thinking scraping mold off sour cream makes the rest of the container okay.

[SusieQ]

Cooking doesn't destroy all food poisoning toxins

No it doesn't. It's like thinking scraping mold off sour cream makes the rest of the container okay.

It's not? Oh dear.

[Mjx]

Cooking doesn't destroy all food poisoning toxins

Heat does destroy most (including botulinum toxin), if not all bacterial toxins; the cdc.gov site (hardly casual about foodborne illenss; e.g it recommends throughly cooking sprouts) adresses the prevention of foodborne illness, both briefly, in their overviews (www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/diseases/) and in individual monographs, also available on their site.

The thing is, just getting things hot doesn't do the trick: You need to keep a rolling boil for a decent chunk of time to be reasonably certain.

And if something looks dodgy, it isn't worth taking chances. I buy as few tinned/preserved/vacuum-packed things as possible, and use them immediately. Then, if something looks like it's gone to hell, I go back to the shop with it (yeh, they love me), I've still got the receipt.

[gfweb]

Cooking doesn't destroy all food poisoning toxins

Heat does destroy most (including botulinum toxin), if not all bacterial toxins; the cdc.gov site (hardly casual about foodborne illenss; e.g it recommends throughly cooking sprouts) adresses the prevention of foodborne illness, both briefly, in their overviews (www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/diseases/) and in individual monographs, also available on their site.

The thing is, just getting things hot doesn't do the trick: You need to keep a rolling boil for a decent chunk of time to be reasonably certain.

And if something looks dodgy, it isn't worth taking chances. I buy as few tinned/preserved/vacuum-packed things as possible, and use them immediately. Then, if something looks like it's gone to hell, I go back to the shop with it (yeh, they love me), I've still got the receipt.

The statement that heat does not destroy all food poisoning toxins is correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-stable_enterotoxin

[Ashen]

"Botulinum toxin can be colorless, odorless, and tasteless when put in a liquid solution."

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Botulism_fact_sheet_7-22-04_162864_7.pdf

I am not sure how usual this situation would be but relying on an off odor, visual cue or taste isn't exactly the best practice procedure. I personally follow the ,' if in doubt, throw it out' practice with all the canning we do, and any bought canned goods.

Heat most definitely does not d ensure safety in all instances. There are spores and bacteria that produce heat resistant toxins that can get you very sick. This is why there are such strict guidelines about food holding temperatures, and also why it is not recommended to reheat leftovers repeatedly. the bacteria can be killed off with each heating but the toxins they produce while the food is in the danger zone continues to accumulate.

[Mjx]

The statement that heat does not destroy all food poisoning toxins is correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-stable_enterotoxin

Boiling won't destroy all bacterial toxins (although it is effective on one of the most common offenders in preserved foods, botulinum toxin), but even heat stable toxins are destroyed when cooked long enough at a high enough temperature.

It's certainly a good idea to carefully boil tinned goods for ten minutes or more, before eating.

Leaving aside the fact that the wikipedia article only states that these toxins remain stable at temperatures up to 100C (not at any temperature), wikipedia is not particularly reliable: anyone can edit it, anyone can make mistakes, and there isn't enough fact checking/copyediting. The statement about toxin stability doesn't even cite a source.

Reliable (even if only for self-interested motives), original sources such as the CDC's website are a better bet: If wikipedia screws up, its an 'oops!'; if the CDC or a similar cite blows up on its facts, it's a multimillion dollar lawsuit.

[gfweb]

Yes, Wikipedia is a terrible reference and I was lazy in not getting a primary reference out of medline, but Wikipedia has the great advantage of being written in everyday English and is much more accessible to the average reader on eG.

[Mjx]

Yes, Wikipedia is a terrible reference and I was lazy in not getting a primary reference out of medline, but Wikipedia has the great advantage of being written in everyday English and is much more accessible to the average reader on eG.

No seriously, the CDC site is pretty accessible: The overviews are meant for everybody to read, and although they don't go into as much detail as the monographs and articles, they're comprehensive and useful (plus a great way to pass a rainy afternoon when you realize your mood is too cheerful, and you want to do something about it).

I didn't find anything on the site (yet) that specifically addressed thick glop in tinned legumes, but I'll bet there's something in there!

[Emily_R]

For what its worth, the times I've cooked chickpeas at home in the pressure cooker, I also end up with a batch of gelatinized goo (the cooking liquid turns to jelly). And I made those chickpeas into hummus with no problem. So I'm seconding or thirding whoever said it may not have been the chickpeas...

[Kerry Beal]

I'm with Emily - check out the description on this site.

[TheTInCook]

For what its worth, the times I've cooked chickpeas at home in the pressure cooker, I also end up with a batch of gelatinized goo (the cooking liquid turns to jelly). And I made those chickpeas into hummus with no problem. So I'm seconding or thirding whoever said it may not have been the chickpeas...

Fourthing this. I cooked some chickpeas on thurs, pulled them out of the fridge on Friday to make hummus, and they were a little gloopy on top. Had the hummus for dinner that night, a little for breakfast, and about to have the rest for lunch. Hasn't made me sick.... yet...