Jasmine Tea House

[Stone]

There's a smile on my face. It's hesitant. Tentative. Nervous. I've been given happiness before, only to have it ripped from me by some . . . well, let's not go there. But it's a smile, and caused by Chinese food..

I've just had good Chinese food. In San Francisco. And it was delivered to me. Not by a friend who was kind enough to pick it up on the way to watch West Wing, but by a man that works for the restaurant. Which means, it can be delivered to me again. Oh sure, the fellow couldn't figure out how to work the buzzer, but in his defense, neither can half of my friends. And this guy doesn't speak English as a first language -- or any language as I could figure.

My friend recommended Jasmine Tea House to me. It's at Mission and Valencia. What? Those streets are parallel you say? They don't intersect? Well, what do you say at the intersection of Waverly and Waverly? Perhaps it's just that enigma that resulted in this. Good Chinese food. Delivered. In San Fransisco.

Sure, I've been to Shen Hua in Berkeley. But that's in Berkeley. And I've been to Erics. But that doesn't deliver. And let's face it, there's something . . . . eeehh . . . too much about it. Excellent sizzling rice soup. Great sesame beef. But, it's . . . trying too hard. All that mango. Why do San Franciscans put mango in everything? Elizas? Don't make me laugh. The fact that Elizas is often ranked in the top five Chinese restaurants in SF only proves my point that there are no real Jews here.

So last night I was at the friends and tried her left-over mince chicken in lettuce cup. My expectation? "Oooh, you put stir fry in lettuce cup." I've had this at Betelnut, the ever disappointing "place to be scene" (by whom?) in the marina. Each time the chicken was not well spiced and, frankly, undercooked. The result was like a not-quite-done steamed dumpling. Pasty undercooked chicken is not pretty.

The stuff from Jasmine Tea House -- and it was cold by the time I got to it -- was terrific. The minced chicken was cooked perfectly, not mushy, not dry, not greasy. In fact, there was very little "sauce" whatsoever -- an anomoly in this land of Earthquakes and gloppy sauce. The chicken was flavored with minced scallion, snappy bits of minced wood ears and a hint of vinegar. Very ju shiang. A dollop of plumb sauce on the cup and very very yummy.

Tonight, I ordered in. Szechwan Beef and House Fried Rice. Two of my stalwarts (is that a word? is it the proper word?).

It was iffy at first. A shudder of fear -- you know, like when your foot just misses the step and you think you're about to tumble down, cracking a few shins and smacking your nose on the hard-wood floor? Opening both styrofoam cartons (I hate styrofoam Chinese cartons. Chinese food should only be delivered in cardboard Chinese food delivery cartons. That's why they call them Chinese food delivery cartons.) Each looked disappointing.

House special fried rice -- meant to have egg, diced carrot, peas, diced chicken, ham, shrimp and very light or no soy. That is key. You want the flavor of the stuff. That's why they put all the stuff in there. This was, at first glance, too dark. My heart dropped. Has she done it yet again? But then I tasted it. Happy day. Fluffy rice, with separate grains and -- get this -- not greasy. Not greasy. You don't get that much in this land of fleece, patchouli and greasy rice. Even the soy, although too heavy in color was not too heavy in taste -- perhaps it was just some dark soy for color, not light soy for flavor. The beef and chicken, as usual, don't add much noticeable flavor and the beef strips, though tender, were a little long for my liking. I've always felt that size and shapes in Chinese food should be somewhat uniform (cooking times, visual symmetry, you know) and little grains of rice, little peas, diced carrots, diced ham require diced beef. But no offense was taken. Instead of ham, there were little cubes of bbq'd pork -- tender and sweet. And a few big shrimp hidden underneath. Could have used some more peas and carrots, but I assume that given the rough times in this land of dot-com layoffs and . . . and . . . and . . . that they were minding their Ps & Qs. It was good.

Schezwan beef in NY is thin Julian'd strips of flank steak with copious julien'd carrot and a bit of celery and scallion in a dark, thin but tangy sauce. Hot enough to bite, but not cause pain. (ooh.) I opened the container and saw nothing of the sort. Instead, it was breaded and deep fried strips of beef over some juliened carrot and onion. It reminded me of the hot and spicy beef (I think) I had once gotten from U Lee, the horrible Chinese restaurant on Hyde Street (that just happens to have the best damnded potstickers (viz: dumplings) you could ever imagine). Those were tasteless strips of fatty beef, covered in a tasteless thick batter and deep fried in grease so unpleasant that the restaurant felt obligated to include about a cup of it in the food to get it out of the place.

I tried one. Oh, happier day. The beef was lightly coated in a spicy batter and fried perfectly so that it was crisp without being greasy. The dish was, for the most part, without sauce, yet not dry at all. Somewhat of a very light version of General Tso's -- obviously a little tomato in there, some chilli. It was served on a bed of onion, scallion and carrot which were very lightly stir-fried and, get this, crisp and flavorful -- not often found in this land of towering redwoods and overcooked veggies.

Oh yes, I predict that by the New Year, one recent Chinese immigrant will master the buzzer at my apartment.

Edited December 12, 2002 by Dstone001 (log)

[IrishCream]

Makes me hungry. But why is Chinese food so bad in SF? It makes no sense to me.

[Stone]

In my opinion, it starts with the basic difference between Sechwan/Hunan that predominates in NY and Mandarin/Cantonese that predominates in SF. And the fact that there are Jews in NY.

[Stone]

O.k. This place rocks.

Sesame Beef -- Many people just don't like this dish. It can be heavy, overly sweet, gloppy. O.k. JTH does a great version. Irregular shreds of beef, breaded and deep fried. Enough to be crispy, but not gloppy or oily. In a relatively dry sauce that's sweet, caramelized, and yet delightfully piquant from vinegar. Like strips of meat candy.

Jasmine prawns. Plump prawns sauteed in white sauce, served with slices of chili and carrot and the greatest mushrooms ever. They're identified as wood ears, but I think they're actuall crystal mushrooms or crystal fungus. At first glance they look like ribbons of rice noodles, but their crisp and crunchy. Yum.

Shredded pork and/or scallops with garlic sauce. Terrific. Thin, piquant brown sauce. Copious amounts of meat and shredded wood ears.

Great fried rice and lo mein (called chow mein out here).

And if you order two entrees, they give you full order of rice or lo mein for free. Gotta love free food.

(Still having trouble with the door code though.)

[Jason Perlow]

House special fried rice -- meant to have egg, diced carrot, peas, diced chicken, ham, shrimp and very light or no soy. That is key. You want the flavor of the stuff. That's why they put all the stuff in there. This was, at first glance, too dark

I have to categorically disagree with you about the amount of soy used in fried rice. I believe that unless its Young Chow fried rice, which is a very SPECIFIC and delicate rice dish that is supposed to highlight the delicateness of the shrimp, peas and ham in it, and has no soy at all, there should be an ample amount of dark soy used in fried rice, otherwise it it will be too bland.

The absolute WORST kind of fried rice is that yellow stuff, with no soy in it at all. Putrid.

[Stone]

I tend to use "house special" and "yang chow" interchangeably. But if you tell me yang chow means only shrimp, ham and peas, I can buy that. As for the use of soy -- stick to mcnuggets.

[Jason Perlow]

I tend to use "house special" and "yang chow" interchangeably.  But if you tell me yang chow means only shrimp, ham and peas, I can buy that.  As for the use of soy -- stick to mcnuggets.

I think at some point, Young Chow became bastarized into "House Special Fried Rice" and then "Ten ingredient Fried Rice" in which they went completely to hell with the rules of fried rice engagement. But yes, Young Chow only has shrimp, peas and ham (and egg) in it.

[ajay]

Stone,

You need to run a seminar on writing; it would be more useful than just about anything I ever had in colllege; I wait patiently for your next discussion.

[herbacidal]

I tend to use "house special" and "yang chow" interchangeably.  But if you tell me yang chow means only shrimp, ham and peas, I can buy that.  As for the use of soy -- stick to mcnuggets.

I think at some point, Young Chow became bastarized into "House Special Fried Rice" and then "Ten ingredient Fried Rice" in which they went completely to hell with the rules of fried rice engagement. But yes, Young Chow only has shrimp, peas and ham (and egg) in it.

can't say whether young chow and house special were originally the same.

but i've always thought of them as. and i've grown up working behind the counter/ in the dining room of chinese restaurants.

[herbacidal]

In my opinion, it starts with the basic difference between Sechwan/Hunan that predominates in NY and Mandarin/Cantonese that predominates in SF.  And the fact that there are Jews in NY.

Except for the part about the Jews in NY, what the bleepity bleep does that mean?

As far as the Jews go, you're implying that the presence of Jews contributes to better Chinese food?

[Han]

I disagree that Chinese food in general is bad in SF. You guys probably need to find out where the good places are and know which dishes to order. I think the problem is there are many authentic places that churns out good stuff but the waiters speaks little english and the menus are in chinese.

Well, there are authentic chinese and there are americanized chinese places. The two offers different tastes. One cannot say that the authentic version is worse or vice versa.

Places like Jai Yun, Utopia, California Louie, Dragon River, Great Eastern, Yank Sing in SF to name a few are all offering delicious authentic Chinese. But again, you need to know which dishes to order. You don't go to these places and order sweet and sour pork or yang chow fried rice or some other americanized chinese.

I am from the south/east bay area and there are tons of delicious authentic places here.

[Stone]

Stone,

You need to run a seminar on writing; it would be more useful than just about anything I ever had in colllege; I wait patiently for your next discussion.

Sure, send me a check for $100, and I'll give you access to all my posts. Then we can discuss.

[Stone]

In my opinion, it starts with the basic difference between Sechwan/Hunan that predominates in NY and Mandarin/Cantonese that predominates in SF.  And the fact that there are Jews in NY.

Except for the part about the Jews in NY, what the bleepity bleep does that mean?

As far as the Jews go, you're implying that the presence of Jews contributes to better Chinese food?

Well, from my observation, the majority of Chinese restaurants in NY, and certainly the ones that I visited growing up in the suburbs, were Hunan/Sichuan -- thinner, spicier sauces (generalized observation), than the Cantonese, Mandarin that predominate in San Francisco. I find that people who are used the first style do not enjoy the second as much.

As for Jews, there's a long-running joke/stereotype/whatever that Jews in NY have adopted Chinese food as their own. Just joking.

[herbacidal]

As far as the Jews go, you're implying that the presence of Jews contributes to better Chinese food?

Well, from my observation, the majority of Chinese restaurants in NY, and certainly the ones that I visited growing up in the suburbs, were Hunan/Sichuan -- thinner, spicier sauces (generalized observation), than the Cantonese, Mandarin that predominate in San Francisco. I find that people who are used the first style do not enjoy the second as much.

As for Jews, there's a long-running joke/stereotype/whatever that Jews in NY have adopted Chinese food as their own. Just joking.

[carpet bagger]

I forget the exact calendar dates but the chinese is approx. 4750 and the Jewish is 5750. Do you realize that that means the Jewish people lived without Chinese food for approx.1000 years.

[Xanthippe]

As for Jews, there's a long-running joke/stereotype/whatever that Jews in NY have adopted Chinese food as their own.  Just joking.

As the character of the young Jewish man who "looks after" Peter O'Toole in the movie My Favorite Year sez: "There are two things Jews know how to do: suffer, and find good Chinese food."

[herbacidal]

I forget the exact calendar dates but the chinese is approx. 4750 and the Jewish is 5750. Do you realize that that means the Jewish people lived without Chinese food for approx.1000 years.

wouldn't that just mean they were eating it for a thousand years without taking records?

[Malik]

In my opinion, it starts with the basic difference between Sechwan/Hunan that predominates in NY and Mandarin/Cantonese that predominates in SF.  And the fact that there are Jews in NY.

Except for the part about the Jews in NY, what the bleepity bleep does that mean?

As far as the Jews go, you're implying that the presence of Jews contributes to better Chinese food?

Well, from my observation, the majority of Chinese restaurants in NY, and certainly the ones that I visited growing up in the suburbs, were Hunan/Sichuan -- thinner, spicier sauces (generalized observation), than the Cantonese, Mandarin that predominate in San Francisco. I find that people who are used the first style do not enjoy the second as much.

I used to like the spicier Chinese cuisines (especially Sichuan) better, but I have grown to really like Cantonese food. The best Cantonese food I had was at a restaurant in Vancouver where I was invited to a 10 course Cantonese wedding banquet. The food was really amazing, and a lot of the dishes had wonderful, subtle flavors that I would not have associated with Chinese food before. Almost every single course was a dish that I had never tried before, quite an eye opening experience.

If you're willing to venture outside the city, I've been to some really good Chinese restaurant in the Peninsula. I really like Joy, a small little Taiwanese restaurant in Foster City, but I've always been there with friends that knew how to order from the Chinese menu, which unfortunately is not translated to English. They have some very spicy dishes there that remind me of Sichuan/Hunan cuisine. I also like Little Sichuan in San Mateo, and they seem to have translated their entire menu to English, so I can order on my own.

Edited March 11, 2003 by Malik (log)

[afoodnut]

In my opinion, it starts with the basic difference between Sechwan/Hunan that predominates in NY and Mandarin/Cantonese that predominates in SF.   

Well, from my observation, the majority of Chinese restaurants in NY, and certainly the ones that I visited growing up in the suburbs, were Hunan/Sichuan -- thinner, spicier sauces (generalized observation), than the Cantonese, Mandarin that predominate in San Francisco. I find that people who are used the first style do not enjoy the second as much.

Sorry, I'm missing with the quoting, but I'll post this anyway...

I keep thinking about what Stone has said, and my mind boggles.

I grew up in NYC, but that was many, many years ago. The Chinese food I ate growing up in the fifties in New York was Cantonese; Hong Fat in Chinatown, New China Inn on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn. In my earliest memories, there were no printed menus; we ordered the family dinner for however many people, and food just kept coming. It was wonderfully flavorful and exotic, but by no means spicy.

I do remember being surprised on a visit back to NY (probably in 1975 or so) going to Szechuan Royal on W.72 between the Park and Columbus, and finding the spicier Chinese food.

It was during my first visit to San Francisco, sometime in the sixties, that I first tasted spicy Chinese food...Hunanese, Szechuan. I tasted Pot Stickers for the first time in Chinatown in San Francisco, and that set me off on a manic search to taste more, and figure out just what it was that I was tasting.

So did the coasts switch, with NYC now having the spicy, and SF now having the bland? And when did it happen?

Or should this be posted in the Chinese forum?

Edited March 15, 2003 by afoodnut (log)

[Stone]

So did the coasts switch, with NYC now having the spicy, and SF now having the bland? And when did it happen?

Remember when you took that nap in the woods and woke up with a really long beard?

[afoodnut]

So did the coasts switch, with NYC now having the spicy, and SF now having the bland? And when did it happen?

Remember when you took that nap in the woods and woke up with a really long beard?

A long nap, and a gender switch, too. That explains it.

When I visit San Francisco now, it's usually to visit family, and I rarely have the time or opportunity to search out great restaurants. The Chinese restaurants that my family frequents in their suburban east bay area offer the spicier, browner food. I'm not saying these are great restaurants or anything of the sort, (no single one comes to mind that I would recommend and say you should make a trip to eat at), but they're there, and with reasonably good food. I don't get to NY at all (no family still there, too many other places to explore), so I have no idea, other than from what I read, here, in reviews, etc. of the styles in Chinese reataurants.

That's why I asked...to hear more about your observations and insight

[Stone]

I was at a party the other night (in SF), and overheard the following:

"People here get so upset when I tell them that there aren't many good restaurants in this City. I try to explain that what passes for great and receives all the popularity doesn't come close to great food or great service in NY. They just don't understand. And the Chinese food? What's with that?"

At that point in the conversation I joined to suggest my sichuan/hunan v. cantonese/mandarin theory. The four or five NY's (all living in SF and enjoying the city quite a bit) thought it provided a good explanation.

[marcus]

I find the Chinese food in NYC significantly better than SF as well, but don't agree with the cantonese/hong kong vs sichuan/hanan distinction. In fact, the best chines restaurants in NYC are hong knong style and possibly shanghai. The real distinction as I see it is that the SF chinese community is much older and dates back to the mid 19th century and this community has become largely americanized and lost some of its roots, as opposed to the NYC chinese community which is very largely composed of recent immigrants with much closer ties to china. Hence more authentic and better chinese food. The upscale chinese Monterey Park suberb of LA has by far the best chinese restaurants in the US. I don't personally have a basis for comparing it to Vancouver, so I won't claim North America.

[Stone]

Jasmine Tea House listed in this month's SF Magazine's cheap eats (outer mission area). Seems that Bubba ate their twice in a week when he was in town.