Chamber Vacuum Sealers, 2011–2014

[pep.]

I finally got around to checking with the distributor and got his permission to post the video.

It is a video showing how to change the oil in a Heneklman Boxer 42, but is applicable to other models as well.

Thanks a lot for the video, it is helpful. My Boxer 35 arrived today and I have to say, it is a monster. Where do you store the even larger Boxer 42? I haven't changed the default programs yet, but I will. As for maintenance, do you run the pump cleaning program each day (which is more or less what they say in the manual) or only when it hasn't been used for a longer period of time (say, a month or two)?

Greetings,

Peter

[GlowingGhoul]

I finally got around to checking with the distributor and got his permission to post the video.

It is a video showing how to change the oil in a Heneklman Boxer 42, but is applicable to other models as well.

Thanks a lot for the video, it is helpful. My Boxer 35 arrived today and I have to say, it is a monster. Where do you store the even larger Boxer 42? I haven't changed the default programs yet, but I will. As for maintenance, do you run the pump cleaning program each day (which is more or less what they say in the manual) or only when it hasn't been used for a longer period of time (say, a month or two)?

Greetings,

Peter

Once a week is sufficient to keep the pump conditioned (per Henkelman), unless you are vacuum packing lots of liquids, then once at the end of the day would be advisable to "burn" off any moisture in the pump.

The Boxer 35 "shrinks" after the initial shock wears off. I keep mine on a kitchen cart so I can move it to wherever I'm working in the kitchen when packing food for freezing.

To my surprise we actually use the chamber vacuuum nearly every day.

Edited December 7, 2011 by GlowingGhoul (log)

[coz]

I've been lazy and have not run the conditioning program on the boxer 35 too often. I've changed the oil last month after 6 months. I haven't noticed any problems. I use it only a couple of times a week. Enjoy it

[pep.]

So what usable vacuum level should I expect? I only have the time control (up to 99 seconds) and I have not been able to bring jar of water to boil yet (up to 38 °C - there were bubbles, but not a rolling boil). I know that the 99.8 % vacuum advertised is the theoretical limit of the pump, but the pressure decrease from my little water experiment seems a bit low.

Initially, I just wanted to test how fast I would have to be if anything boiled - but apparently it doesn't at the moment. I suspect that the silicon gasket needs to be replaced, but I'll ask the seller when he last did these things (the teflon strip for the sealing wire seems to be fine on the other hand).

[coz]

I've never really done a torture test to see the extent of it. I have the model with the h20 sensor so I usually just leave that on and it stops the machine when it starts to boil. Obviously product temperature will influence how quick this happens.

[coz]

I've never really done a torture test to see the extent of it. I have the model with the h20 sensor so I usually just leave that on and it stops the machine when it starts to boil. Obviously product temperature will influence how quick this happens.

[GlowingGhoul]

So what usable vacuum level should I expect? I only have the time control (up to 99 seconds) and I have not been able to bring jar of water to boil yet (up to 38 °C - there were bubbles, but not a rolling boil). I know that the 99.8 % vacuum advertised is the theoretical limit of the pump, but the pressure decrease from my little water experiment seems a bit low.

Initially, I just wanted to test how fast I would have to be if anything boiled - but apparently it doesn't at the moment. I suspect that the silicon gasket needs to be replaced, but I'll ask the seller when he last did these things (the teflon strip for the sealing wire seems to be fine on the other hand).

I get to liquid boiling easily when disabling the H20 sensor. When vacuum packing liquids or raw meat, boiling usually starts at 97%-98%. The one time I took a liquid over 98%, it nearly exploded in the chamber, so you are definately losing pressure.

Henkelman sells a maintainance kit, which includes a new lid gasket, sealing wires, silicon tape for the seal bar, and enough oil for a change (in a nice dispenser that makes it easy). It costs about $40 US. Just call them and give them the model # of your machine to order.

Edited December 7, 2011 by GlowingGhoul (log)

[GlowingGhoul]

Pep, another possible source of your problem is the "exhaust filter" on the vacuum pump.

Since your Boxer was used in a commercial kitchen, that filter could be clogged which reduces the maximum pressure the pump can pull. Again, give Henkelman a call or email. The filter is about $30 US if I rememeber correctly. Instructions for changing it are in the manual you can download from Henkelman's site.

The Boxer 35 is rated for 400 vacuum cycles per day, so it's very unlikely that it's worn out.

If I were you, rather than relying on someone telling you what maintainance was performed, I would just do a full "tune up" by changing the lid gasket, oil, and exhaust filter. Don't bother with the seal wires unless you aren't getting a good seal. Everything should take less than 15 minutes from start to finish.

Edited December 7, 2011 by GlowingGhoul (log)

[blackp]

I agree with Glowing Ghoul. A full service will not take much time nor cost very much.

I can even boil ice water in my Boxer42 and you should be able to do the same.

While I mean to run the conditioning cycle about once a week it usually only gets done 2 or 3 times a month and I've not had any problems. I usually run the conditioning cycle after doing things like making Heston's french fries or anything else which causes the pump to suck a lot of moist air. The conditioning cycle is only intended to heat the oil so that any water evaporates before it emulsifies.

Regards,

Peter.

[pep.]

After running the pump conditioning program the air smells like hot oil, so I suspect that you are right and the oil filter is saturated. I've had a look on the most accessible spare parts dealer. The filter costs more than EUR 93,- (about US$ 125,-) *sighs*

[mharpo]

I bought a VacMaster Pro 112 back in August for $612.98 and free shipping from Buy.com, really... I absolutely love it and use it 3 0r 4 times a week for something or other. Bought it for Sous Vide, but useful for so many other things... Almost as important as a refrigerator or stove!

Edited December 11, 2011 by mharpo (log)

[pep.]

If I were you, rather than relying on someone telling you what maintainance was performed, I would just do a full "tune up" by changing the lid gasket, oil, and exhaust filter. Don't bother with the seal wires unless you aren't getting a good seal. Everything should take less than 15 minutes from start to finish.

I had a look at the exhaust filter and it appears to be completely soaked on the bottom side (no idea if that's a normal wear pattern or if it happened during transport). Unfortunately, I somehow can't put it back in, the tensioner is way to tight. Or am I missing a secret trick? I will be ordering a replacement filter, but until then I'd like the machine closed up properly.

OK, I got it. The filter wasn't plugged in quite correctly. So now I'll have to wait for the replacement. *sighs*

Edited December 12, 2011 by pep. (log)

[Steve Hiller]

It's time for me to pull the trigger on the purchase of a chamber vacuum sealer. I'd love to get a couple opinions on the ones all of you have purchased.

For me, it's coming down to about four models. The VacMaster VP210, VP215, VP112, and the Minipack MVS31X. I'm leaning towards the VP210 or VP215.

1) For those of you with a VP112, do you ever wish you had a bigger unit?

2) Is the oil pump of the VP215 worth it for home use or would the VP210 work just as well for the light use it will get?

3) What's the advantage of stepping up to something more expensive like a Minipack or a similar chamber?

Keep in mind, this is all for home use, primarily for sous vide and freezing meats and stocks.

Thanks,

Steve

[coz]

Minipack might be a higher build quality and better pump. I think one of the biggest differences would be the sensor vs timer functions. In other words the Minipack will stop after the desired pressure is reached as opposed to being set by a timer.

[LoftyNotions]

Minipack might be a higher build quality and better pump. I think one of the biggest differences would be the sensor vs timer functions. In other words the Minipack will stop after the desired pressure is reached as opposed to being set by a timer.

This is the main reason I chose the Minpack. I'm also a home user, and don't really need the Minpack, but I've been happy with my purchase.

If I'm not mistaken, the VPs won't pull quite as high a vacuum, at least the 210 and 112. Also, regarding chamber size, pint jars will fit inside the Minpack. With the Minpack, for large items you can turn the sealer bar around and use it as an external sealer using Foodsaver style bags.

Hopefully some VP users will be along shortly to discuss their sealers.

HTH,

Larry

[GlowingGhoul]

The three most important components that differentiate a quality vacuum chamber sealer is the pump, the pump, and the pump.

A dry pump will not pull nearly as high a vacuum as an oil pump.

An oil pump will last far longer than a dry pump.

All pumps slowly lose their maximum vacuum with use, but dry pumps will do so much faster than oil based pumps.

Busch pumps are at the top of the food chain, followed by DVP, followed by the VP mystery chinese oil pump, in terms of quality and maximum vacuum.

Serviceability is another major issue. Busch pump parts are widely available, and the pumps can be restored to "new" condition for about $375. The lower end Busch pumps (16 and 21 m3/minute) found in the smaller chamber machines are rated for 730,000(!) cycles prior to a rebuild. Good luck getting that VP pump fixed in a few years.

While price is not always an indicator of quality, it is worth noting that the smallest Busch pumps(just the pump) costs more than a VP210.

Personally, I'd rather spend $2,000 on a Busch pump based machine that will, in a home enviornment, probobly last forever, than $1,250 on one with a questionable, perhaps impossible to repair pump.

As to the other features like vacuum by percentage, vacuum by H20 sensor, soft air, gas flush, etc...they're nice to have, but it's the pump that matters most.

[GlowingGhoul]

If I were you, rather than relying on someone telling you what maintainance was performed, I would just do a full "tune up" by changing the lid gasket, oil, and exhaust filter. Don't bother with the seal wires unless you aren't getting a good seal. Everything should take less than 15 minutes from start to finish.

I had a look at the exhaust filter and it appears to be completely soaked on the bottom side (no idea if that's a normal wear pattern or if it happened during transport). Unfortunately, I somehow can't put it back in, the tensioner is way to tight. Or am I missing a secret trick? I will be ordering a replacement filter, but until then I'd like the machine closed up properly.

OK, I got it. The filter wasn't plugged in quite correctly. So now I'll have to wait for the replacement. *sighs*

The machine should be shipped with the oil drained. That's how they come from the factory, in order to avoid contaminating that filter. Sorry to hear it, but you'll forget all about these problems once you're up and running!

[pep.]

If I were you, rather than relying on someone telling you what maintainance was performed, I would just do a full "tune up" by changing the lid gasket, oil, and exhaust filter. Don't bother with the seal wires unless you aren't getting a good seal. Everything should take less than 15 minutes from start to finish.

OK, so now I have changed the oil and the lid gasket, however the maximum vacuum didn't get any better. I have also cleaned the oil exhaust filter with petroleum ether according to the instructions of the seller (it was not dirty at all, but there was an oil spill from the transport on the bottom side). This was actually the first measure I took. Since it didn't change the vacuum level at all, I'm inclined to think that replacing the filter wouldn't help either.

I don't know what the problem is, but it seems there is something wrong with the machine after all

[bostonapothecary]

If I were you, rather than relying on someone telling you what maintainance was performed, I would just do a full "tune up" by changing the lid gasket, oil, and exhaust filter. Don't bother with the seal wires unless you aren't getting a good seal. Everything should take less than 15 minutes from start to finish.

OK, so now I have changed the oil and the lid gasket, however the maximum vacuum didn't get any better. I have also cleaned the oil exhaust filter with petroleum ether according to the instructions of the seller (it was not dirty at all, but there was an oil spill from the transport on the bottom side). This was actually the first measure I took. Since it didn't change the vacuum level at all, I'm inclined to think that replacing the filter wouldn't help either.

I don't know what the problem is, but it seems there is something wrong with the machine after all

are you relying on maximum vacuum from a gauge or have you been using it with any bags or trying to boil water at zero celsius?

[pep.]

are you relying on maximum vacuum from a gauge or have you been using it with any bags or trying to boil water at zero celsius?

The percentage is from the vacuum gauge, but I have experimented with water at various temperatures. Water didn't even boil at 38 °C!

[GlowingGhoul]

Which program setting are you using? (0-9)

Does yours have gas flush? You can tell because it will have 2 gas nozzles behind the seal bar sticking into the chamber.

Does yours have vacuum by percentage? IE, are you seeing the digital display count upwards as it is vacuuming(pressure), or downwards (timer)?

I will be able to assist you once I've got this information.

[pep.]

It's the basic model. No gas flush, no vacuum sensor. I've increased the time to 99 seconds, but the resulting vacuum doesn't vary much after the first 30 or 40 seconds (the vacuum does get a bit stronger, but by a miniscule amount).

[Robert Jueneman]

I just came across this thread, or I would have contributed earlier.

After reading MC, and some extensive discussions with blackp and Douglas Baldwin, I opted for the Minipack MVS-31X. Although the Henkleman has some nice feature, including a soft-air feature, the Minipack seemed to have a better distribution and support system here in the US.

I bought mine from Doug Care Equipment. Doug seems to be very knowledgable, and has lots of other stuff as well, including bags. But PolyScience and others also sell them.

I ordered mine with dual 4mm seal bars, and no cut-off. But the seal bars are replaceable (although not cheap), so if you need a cut-off, you could easily switch back and forth.

The Minipack allows you to program the amount of time used for the sealing. I recently bought some 7mm retort pouches in order to try "canning" in the bag using a pressure cooker, but the added thickness requires you to crank the seal time up to the maximum of 4 seconds. Those bags were 8" by 18", which is too long for my chamber (they are intended for fish fillets.) And no, they cannot be used outside the chamber vacuum -- I would have to use a FoodSaver bag with the crinkle finish for something that big.

Yesterday I ordered the gas fill adapter from Doug Care. According to him, it shouldn't be too hard to upgrade the machine -- the holes are pre-drilled and the wiring just plugs in.

Although blackp uses a mix of nitrogen and CO2 (which is apparently used by restaurants and bars for pressurizing beer kegs), I think I will probably opt for nitrogen only, and get a 40 cubic foot tank that can sit on the counter behind the chamber vacuum and the anti-griddle. I'm told that I need a regulator that will go down to 2 bar (30 psi) reliably. Because most tanks are pretty scuffed up, I may make some kind of a nice looking cover for them, and it might be a good idea to somehow anchor it to the counter top. The thought of dropping the unit and breaking off the regulator, and having a bottle with 2000 psi jetting around the room doesn't seem very smart!

The intended use for this (other than experimentation) would be to preserve things like bread, cookies, bagels, chips, etc., without crushing them. By evacuating all of the air from the chamber, and then filling it with nitrogen before sealing, you can create a "pillow-pack" like that used for potato chips, and the lack of oxygen will retard the onset of staleness (I hope).

Doug indicated that the more expensive 45X model has a soft-air feature, and he suggested that it might not be that hard to modify the air inlet port and put a constricting valve on it, so it wouldn't compress food quite so violently. When I take the covers off to add the gas fill adapter, I'll try to scope out what that would take. If anyone else has any thoughts or has done this, please post them, as the soft-air feature would certainly be nice to have.

I thought it might be useful to update this post, particularly with respect to the gas fill adapter. I bought the parts from Doug Care Equipment (www.dougcare.com), and where I have also bought most of my bags -- everything from the small 6"x8" size up to the big 12"x18" size. (if I ever needed to vacuum pack anything larger than that, I would use a FoodSaver roll on the outside of the MVS-31X, and use it like an edge sealer.)

Blackp is the only person that I know of with a gas fill adapter on his chamber machine. He says that he seldom uses it, and wouldn't spend the money again. I guess I have a different opinion, as I use mine a couple of times a week, and love it.

I like the bread sold by Whole Foods in Santa Fe, about 60 miles away, but we only get down there every couple of weeks or so. I buy an unsliced loaf or two, cut them in half to fit into a large bag conveniently (with lots of seal space left over), freeze one half and refrigerate the other half, and then cut that one open for fresh bread for sandwiches, and then reseal it again. I do the same thing with things like apple fritters, and even large heirloom tomatoes -- anything that I want to preserve without crushing them.

I'm using a 99% vacuum plus 50% gas fill, and using straight nitrogen, as opposed to the nitrogen/CO2 mixture that blackp uses.

I continue to have a problem with the regulator not sealing well on the nitrogen tank. The first bottle only lasted me a couple of days, and had to be replaced by another one (unfortunately somewhat larger). I['m going to have to get some Teflon tape for the regulator screw thread, and see if that will stop the leak (using a soap solution to test it.) But my bottle is only 50 cm x 20cm, and it lays on its side behind the MVS-31X, so it isn't inconvenient. I just have to remember to turn off the tank at the main valve, rather than relying on the regulator or the MVS-31X.

Fortunately, I have a large island counter in the center of the kitchen, so the MVS-31X and my Anti-Griddle sit side-by-side at the end of the island, very conveniently.

If anyone else is using Modified Atmosphere Packaging, I would be very curious to know more -- what gases are you using, and for what? In particular, is anyone using CO2 to preserve meat that is to be frozen?

There are two more modifications to the unit that I want to try. PolyScience was running a special on the new MVX-35XP, which is slightly larger than mine and adds a soft-fill control. In addition, it allegedly supports an external vacuum hose, so that I could use it with a FoodSaver dry goods container (perhaps instead of the gas fill option), or a hotel-pan marinating tray But when I asked Joe Stryber at PolyScience about it, he said, "yes it does -- just like your "MSV-31X". ???

I went back to reread the manual, but it doesn't say anything at all about such an option. The best I can figure is that it should be possible to screw a threaded barb into the vacuum opening at the inside rear of the unit, then thread a hose onto to connect to something else.

[mgaretz]

Hmmm. Your nitrogen regulator shouldn't leak and I don't ever recall having to use Teflon tape. Been quite a while since I had a tank and regulator, but I think there should be an o-ring type seal. If it is the regulator, it's defective. I suspect your leak is elsewhere.

30 psi is quite high actually and good regulator should be able to hold that without an issue.

[GlowingGhoul]

I just throw the entire (closed) foodsaver container into my Henkelman Boxer. Since the containers have a one way valve built in, air is evacuted during the vacuum cycle, but when the chamber lets air back in to repressurize, the valve closes, maintaining the vacuum.

The only caveat is that at any setting above 60% vacuum, the container begins to collapse in on itself...they cannot handle high vacuum. I have one of the programs set for 60%, which makes sealing these containers very fast and easy.

On the Henkelman, the external vacuum adapter fits over the suction port in the chamber. After discovering the "put the whole container in" trick, I decided not to bother. I wasn't able to find the vacuum lids you are supposed to use for standard commercial containers/trays anyway.

To my surpirse, the chamber vacuum machine has become one of the most used small appliances in my kitchen.

Edited January 1, 2012 by GlowingGhoul (log)