Where should we go?

[Matthew Grant]

We're looking to go to the South Of France in Spring and were wondering where a good base would be that would allow us to try a Michelin 3 star and perhaps a couple of 1 and 2 stars along the way.We'd also like reasonable access to the coast (an hours drive?), although this isn't essential.

Any suggestions for rental accomodation with a good kitchen also gratefully received. The closer to the restaurants the better as we both like to drink and are too selfish to agree to drive the other person

[hollywood]

Perhaps you could stay in Avignon or maybe Aix. You wouldn't be too far from Montpellier, home of Jardin des Sens (***), or in Aix there's Clos de la Violette (**). There are quite a few 2 stars in the South. Check Michelin.

[cabrales]

Well, there would be three three-stars in potential play (Pourcels' Jardin des Sens in Montpellier; Guerard's Pres d'Eugenie; and Bras' place at Laguiole). There's also former three star Louis XV in Monaco, operated by Ducasse.

Depending on how many three stars you wanted to visit, I would suggest visiting Jardin des Sens in Montpellier (there's a direct TGV to Montpellier from Paris, if you are using the Eurostar; however, one of the short-haul airlines has a flight from some London airport to Montpellier, I believe). I personally don't like the Poucels' cooking, but this restaurant is very modern-looking.

I have driven from JdS to Bras' place in Laguiole (less than 3.5 hours). Perhaps two meals at Bras (I took in three on my first and only visit, and that was a bit too much). Then, a long drive through Puymirol (Michael Trama's place, which I have never visited) could bring you to Guerard's Pres d'Eugenie. That way, you would hit all three of the Southern France three stars. Guerard has a less inexpensive place that I have always wanted to sample, Ferme des Grives, also at Eugenie. He has a spa there too -- some of the water treatments are a bit mediocre, but one treatment is a milky-textured "bath" utilizing clay. It's nice.

On two stars, I strongly recommend Le Moulin de Lourmarin, which is very close to Aix. The little town of Lourmarin also has Renne Samut's one-star (Auberge de la Feniere), although I don't like her cooking.

I also like Bruno's place at Lorgues (spelling) -- inexpensive and an easy drive from Le Moulin de Lourmarin (between Nice and Marseilles, not along the coast). A good place to sample truffles, although you might get frozen ones if they are not in season. There is Terre des Truffes in Nice supervised by Bruno as well, as recently discussed on the French board.

[robert brown]

Matthew, which part of the South of France will you be going to?

[Bux]

Robert Brown may have made the most reasonable response. It's a start. I'm not sure I fully understand your requirements either. If I do, the others don't.

South is a relative term, but for many travelers in France, it means Provence or the Cote d'Azur. There is also the southwest which includes the overlapping Languedoc, Midi, Pyreness and Basque Coast as well as other smaller regions. What are you looking for in the south outside of relative warmer temperatures. Beaches would be dependant on how late in the spring you go.

The implication I get is that you want to rent a house or apartment and visit some restaurants from that base, but that you're not eager to drive far to a restaurant. Then again you say "along the way." Would it be your intention to visit a nice inn on the way to your final destination? Where would you start your drive? Might you also consider Spain in either Catalunya or the Spanish Basque coast.

[cabrales]

I forgot to mention Bras has significant periodic closures.

[Bux]

I forgot to mention Bras has significant periodic closures.

They're closed from November through March, but otherwise have Monday and lunch closings. Most of the restaurants in France have a day or two off each week, although perhaps not in the peak season.

[grahamtigg]

I think the easy bit in planning such trips is to home in on the multi-starred establishments that (one hopes) form the foundations of a trip. Much harder is filling in the bits in between - the everyday places and the one star, or even better aspiring one star, restaurants.

If you opt for the Languedoc (which one could accurately describe as central south) or the extreem southwest then I can certainly help with those bits in between.

If you are looking to rent somewhere then do look at www.francevoila.com

Graham

[blackduff]

Here are a few other sites which list properties for rent in the Midi of France.

http://www.cheznous.co.uk/

http://www.countrycousins.co.uk/framefront.htm

http://www.franceonecall.com/

http://www.holiday-rentals.co.uk/index.cfm...s/reg_refno/266

This should give you some ideas of what is available and how much it will cost.

Although the Pyrenee Oriental region has great weather most of the time, three star restaurants are not exactly plentiful here. It is close to Spain and Roses so you could jump across the border to El Bulli.

No connections with any of the sites noted, etc., etc.

BlackDuff

[Matthew Grant]

Robert Brown may have made the most reasonable response. It's a start. I'm not sure I fully understand your requirements either. If I do, the others don't. 

South is a relative term, but for many travelers in France, it means Provence or the Cote d'Azur. There is also the southwest which includes the overlapping Languedoc, Midi, Pyreness and Basque Coast as well as other smaller regions. What are you looking for in the south outside of relative warmer temperatures. Beaches would be dependant on how late in the spring you go.

The implication I get is that you want to rent a house or apartment and visit some restaurants from that base, but that you're not eager to drive far to a restaurant. Then again you say "along the way." Would it be your intention to visit a nice inn on the way to your final destination? Where would you start your drive? Might you also consider Spain in either Catalunya or the Spanish Basque coast.

Bux, I think you got it! We want to base ourselves in one place and be within easy reach of some good restaurants, in hindsight a 3 star isn't a necessity but would be nice. We will probably be going in April and would prefer to be close to the coast which we presume to be a little more lively than the inland areas. I should have been more specific with the region , we were thinking more along the lines of Provence or Cote d'Azur although would consider something a little more central.

[Bux]

I am more familiar with the the southwest of the Languedoc and Basque Coast myself. That's partially because I have good friends who have a house near Beziers and perhaps also out of a certain perversity. Provence is where everyone goes. There's a joy in escaping the crowds, but there's usually a reason everyone goes to where everyone goes. In terms of food, there's a lot to be said for the two coasts just north of the Pyrenees and that's that they're a short drive from Spain. I never thought I'd ever say something like that. I did not find Spanish food all that interesting on my first visits there although those two areas have always had good food.

Nevertheless, I can't see driving from Collioure to Roses or from St. Jean de Luz to San Sebastian and back for dinner. When you get below the starred restaurants, I think the French Basque country has both Spain and the Mediterranean coast north of the Pyrenees beat in terms of food and restaurants. I've found it to have almost beach weather one January and just barely beach weather early in September another year. There's not a lot of heavy duty sightseeing in terms of museums and monuments--there are reasons Provence is so popular. L'Auberge de la Galupe in Urt is one hell of a restaurant even for a two star. I've eaten well enough in one star restaurants in the area and there are many restaurants I haven't tried that are well written about. The Pyrenees are quite low by the Atlantic, but it may still be chilly in the mountains and quite frankly, it may be very much not lively at that time of year. In any event, I've always been a transient tourist moving from hotel to hotel in the region except when we stay with friends in the Languedoc, but Graham would be my point man in that area. He's been a steady visitor and renter, I believe. There are several regulars here who know Provence and the Cote d'Azur or parts of it quite well.

[Jonathan Day]

Note that "Provence" is almost as ambiguous as "the South of France". Does it include the Côte d'Azur, for example?

You can dine very well on the Côte d'Azur, but not by following the stars. There are no 3 star places in the region, now that Ducasse's place in Monaco has lost its third star. There are lots of two stars, e.g. Chibois in Grasse, or the Hostellerie Jérome in La Turbie, or Maximin in Vence. Some of these are very good indeed. I will some day go back to Le Moulin de Mougins, which fell from three stars to one and has now climbed back to two, but after one very poor and very expensive meal there, this place is low on my list.

But in that region, I have found it far more interesting to dine at the smaller "treasures", many of which I've learnt about from eGullet: La Cave in Cannes, Loulou in Cros-de-Cagnes, le Bistrot de Mougins, La Petite Maison and Terres de Truffes in Nice. In Menton, there's Chibois's "modern bistro", Mirazur. And you can cross the border for some very good Franco-Italian eating at Balzi Rossi in Ventimiglia...if you find that cuisine relevant. You can go up into the hills of the arrière-pays and find some lovely places, e.g. the Auberge de la Madone in Peillon.

Robert Brown, Steve Plotnicki and Bux have all posted long and useful writeups on the area in the France board.

One of the pleasures of taking a house or flat in an area and making that your local base of operations for a week or so is that you can get to know the place reasonably well and begin to ferret out some of the more interesting places. Your total star count will be smaller, but there is a different (and I believe deeper) pleasure to be found this way.

[Matthew Grant]

Thanks for all the help - now I'm even more confused!

Is Cannes more interesting/better located than Nice? Where has more interesting places to eat and drink in the evening? Would we be able to travel to Michel Bras by train?

I am braced for a barrage of differing opinions

[Steve Plotnicki]

Cannes is hundreds of miles away from Michel Bras. Even if you were to fly to Clermont-Ferrand which is the closest airport, the trip would take you 3-4 hours between flying and driving. Cannes is a more upscale resort town with many five and four star hotels, nice beaches and designer shopping. It also has a great food market. The town is basically new and modern. There are a number of two star restaurants in the town and there is the terrific La Cave but in general I don't find it to be a good restaurant town. Nice is a middle class town and it is old fashioned and has a lively and colorful old town with a pedestrian zone and market. The food is more workmanlike and there are a few places to eat authentic Nicoise cuisine. I prefer it to Cannes as it has less of a transient feel to it then Cannes does but it also has it's limitations. But the two cities are a mere 35 kms apart and the drive between them takes about 25 minutes or the train takes 35. You don't have to stay in either of those cities as there are smaller towns in between Cannes and the Italian border that offer good places to stay. And there are a mulitude of places to eat everything from haute cuisine to local dishes.

[Jonathan Day]

I might consider Menton for a first visit to the area. There are some lovely sea views and the old section is wonderfully mysterious, with small, twisting passages. Menton itself is not a great restaurant town (though Mirazur is very good) but you would be in close striking distance to La Turbie, Monaco, and Eze, all of which have good places. To the east, you have Italy. To the west, Nice and Cannes/Grasse. To the north, the arrière-pays hill towns (Peille, Peillon, etc.). It will give you a sharp sense of the French/Italian flavour of the region.

The other option is to go to the west, choosing a town like Mougins. Personal disclosure: we have a house there and know the immediate area well. Nonetheless, the eating in and around Mougins is very good.

In between, you have towns like Vence and St Paul. A small gem in this area is the Mas du Haut Malvan (www.hautmalvan.com). The landlord also owns the Galerie Guy Pieters, one of the very top places in St Paul, and the Mas is furnished with exquisite modern taste. All of the 3 apartments have kitchens; the largest of the 3 has a separate and well equipped kitchen as well as a separate living/dining room.

In any case I would stay in a smaller area, not Cannes or Nice. More relaxing and less hassle with noise and traffic.

[cabrales]

It appears that one of the early decisions is how much effort (if any) Matthew might want to make to cover as many three-stars as possible. It is not entirely easy to cover all the three southern French three-stars during a trip, but it would appear doable under an itinerary that would be considerably less leisurely than the one Matthew might be contemplating.

Continuing my previously suggested itinerary (for travelers interested in maximizing three-stars accessed), one could, as Bux suggested, go even further after accessing Guerard's Pres d'Eugenie. One could take the train from Pau (Eugenie is within 30-45 minutes by car of Pau), and take the train to Hendaye (whether or not through Biarritz or Bayonne). From Hendaye, one could follow the directions described in the "Berasategui" thread in the Spain forum to access (1) two three-stars (Arzak and Berasategui) and (2) two two-stars (Zuberoa and Akelarre). There are many other options by train from Southern France as well. One could, from certain points, access Lyons for even more opportunities.

Steve P and I have previously discussed how best to access Michael Bras. If it actually does take 3-4 hours from Clermont Ferrand to drive to Laguiole, it might be advantageous to access it from Montpellier, from which the drive is no more than 3.5 hours and which has three-starred Jardin des Sens. I am not a strong driver, and even I was able to make the drive from Montpellier to Laguiole in 3.5 hours.

Note I am not advocating a hectic schedule based on the above. I am merely noting the possibilities.

[Bux]

Michel Bras is not a place I'd consider as a dinner or even a lunch while staying in most of what I consider the "south" of France. There's just too much driving involved not to want an overnight stay at Bras, or in the area for me. Michel Geurard also seems too far north for just dinner from the Basque region. Either of these places and others might be a consideration depending on how you were getting to your final destination if that was not Provence. I've not researched this, but I can't imagine getting to Bras by train, although I'm sure Laguiole must have train service and I suspect taxis could be arranged to the inn which is out of town.

Steve Plotnicki's assessment of the differences between Cannes and Nice are similar to mine and probably more up to date. Nice probably has more activities than he gives it credit for having. It the good old days when the airlines were far more generous to travel agents, we spent a long weekend in Nice. With only four days to our trip, we still rented a car for a day to drive along the coast to Antibes and the Picasso museum. That was several years ago and what I remember most about the drive was how little coutryside was left along the Mediterranean. I knew it years before when it was rather undeveloped.

Matthew, how are you getting to the south of France and will you have a car along the way, or rent one there? If you are not staying in a city, I think you will need a car.

[cabrales]

How far Bras is depends on what part of Southern France one is at. As I mentioned before, 3.5 hours is not a very long drive from Montpellier. If one is going to Bras, one is likely to stay overnight -- if not at the adjacent rooms, at least in Lagiole. How can one drive 7 hours round trip in a day while concurrently taking in a significant meal?

As for the driving distance (leaving aside train for now) between Eugenie Les Bains (the very location of Guerard's place) and San Sebastian, it's 2 hours according to Michelin. (Less than 5 hours brings you from Bras' place to Eugenie, assuming you don't stop at Trama along the way)

If one had a week's time, the possibilities are much wider than most people generally contemplate.

[Steve Plotnicki]

One good thing about Cannes is you don't have to drive to go to dinner if you don't want to. There are two 2 star restaurants in town I believe plus La Cave. If you throw a night of simple food in the mix (pizza) you killed a long weekend. And the two best bouillabaisse places are a short ride, plus there's another 2 star in Juan-les-Pins. That takes care of a week. But the worst thing about Cannes is that it has an atmosphere that can be described as "international." Though I have to say that walking along the Croisette in the later afternoon is one of the greatest things to do in any city of the world. Nice on the other hand is not as self contained in my opinion. If you stay in Nice you will be going out of town for dinner. And if you stay in one of the smaller towns, which are certainly lovely, you will be driving to a long distance to dinner every night. Not sure how important that is to you or what type of drinker you are. As for culture, you are going to need a car to visit the museums. No city has more then one good one and many of the good ones are in the smaller towns and you need a car to get to them.

[Bux]

In response to both Steve and Cabrales, I have read Matthew's post and interpreted it as wanting to stay in a rented house in one location for a week. Two and three star restaurants were secondary requests and not an essential part of his trip. Thus I have proposed the kind of trip I normally take which is a road trip moving from inn to inn each night.

I'm not clear that Matthew wants to cook some, or most, of his own meals, but I find that's usually part of the reason people choose to say in a rental rather than a hotel. Well Matthew, we could still use some more imput.

[Matthew Grant]

Sorry to have confused you all! My knowledge of the area is minimal and I had no idea of distances or locations of the 3 stars (obviously I do now). The 3 stars are now out of the equation and following JD's post I have taken a look at Mougins and think that we will proabably try and stay around that area provided transport into Cannes is easy during the evening. We will be hiring a car to get around during the day.

[cabrales]

Matthew -- From Mougins, Ducasse's Louis XV, which used to be a three-star, is less than 45 minutes away (in Monaco). Chibois' Bastide de St Antoine (Grasse) is less than 15 minutes away. Loubet's Moulin de Lourmarin (Lourmarin) is about 2 hours away, according to Michelin. Bruno's place at Lorgues is less than 1 hour away, although he also has Terre des Truffes in Nice.

[hollywood]

A suggestion. Should you decide to order bouillabaisse, be sure to get an idea of the portion size. My ex and I once ordered some in Cannes and we didn't even begin to make a dent in this huge tureen full of stuff. But I'd do it again.

[menton1]

One of my favorites in the South is the Oustau de Baumaniere, in Les Baux-de-Provence, in the Alpilles area of Provence. A very picturesque area near the towns of St. Remy, Fontvielle, and Aix-en-Provence. Although it has lost a star (Now a 2 star) the setting is heavenly-- you feel that you are in the garden of a private chateau and facing the ancient bauxite cliffs-- and the Lamb en Croute is among the best in France. (The Christofle service is a great touch) You can also stay at the inn here for quite a reasonable price.

As far as Nice vs. Cannes (About 2 1/2 hours from Les Baux) I'll take Nice anytime. A real city with real people and a lot of cultural activities (17 museums!) I do have a soft spot for Menton (Check my name) which is a tranquil spot where you walk to Italy for gelato!

There is a wonderful insider guide to the South of France called the Guide Gantié. It is a refreshing alternative to Michelin and has a lot more information. It is online at:

http://www.guidegantie.com

(It is in french only)

Bon chance!!

[Bux]

I have taken a look at Mougins and think that we will proabably try and stay around that area provided transport into Cannes is easy during the evening. We will be hiring a car to get around during the day.

The answer to your question about getting around at night by train or bus or taxi is critical, or so I would think. I don't have the answer. I fear public transportation north and south might not be nearly as good as I understand it is along the coast. I hope you will hear that I am wrong. If I am correct, you may want to consider staying in Cannes or Nice and using the car to get around by day. That way you will have the option of walking to restaurants.