Del Posto Gets 4 Stars

[oakapple]

Today, Ryan Sutton of Bloomberg gives Del Posto two stars, in a review that couldn't be more opposite of Sifton's.

[sickchangeup]

Yeah, he ate a lot of the same stuff I did, and experienced a lot of the service issues I saw.

The review is still a bit mean spirited though, he's definitely driving an agenda IMO.

[wkl]

Del Posto's $95 menu certainly does look good, though I suspect it won't last, and the price of the wine list (which is not available online) may very well bump up the average check size considerably beyond what appears, at first glance, to be a very good bargain.

Link to Del Posto's wine list.

I've always enjoyed the fact that one of the VERY few French wines on the menu is Chateaux Le Gay. Gotta love that sense of humor.

quite a bit of champagne on that list.

[LPShanet]

Today, Ryan Sutton of Bloomberg gives Del Posto two stars, in a review that couldn't be more opposite of Sifton's.

Wow, quite the disparity. I'm headed there in a few weeks, and very curious which way my experience will lean.

[sethd]

The disparity between the two reviews really doesn't matter since the New YOrk Times review is still considered to be the most presigious and important review in the city. Del Posto is now a New York Times 4 star restaruant and will keep that rating for the forseable future.

[oakapple]

The disparity between the two reviews really doesn't matter since the New YOrk Times review is still considered to be the most presigious and important review in the city. Del Posto is now a New York Times 4 star restaruant and will keep that rating for the forseable future.

You are entirely correct, of course, that the Times review is "the one that counts". (It works the other way, too. At around the time Bruni gave Del Posto three stars, Bob Lape of Crain's gave it four. Hardly anyone remembers the latter.)

STILL, it is a remarkable disparity. I don't recall any professional review THAT scathing, of ANY of the current four-star restaurants. Some may have questioned whether Daniel or EMP was truly a four-star place, but no professional reviewer has suggested that any of them are as bad as Sutton just wrote about Del Posto.

[Fat Guy]

I don't think we've seen "professional" reviews that negative of a NYT four-star place since Alain Ducasse at the Essex House. But there we had a whole complex stew of political considerations going on. Everybody loves Batali, though. I can't think of a single person in the food press who has an axe to grind with Batali. With Del Posto, I'm inclined to believe Sifton had meals as great as he said he had, and Sutton had meals as bad as he said he had.

Although, I will say that the argument “Haven’t we had a better, cheaper version of this elsewhere?” that Sutton makes seems symptomatic of the soft bigotry against fancy Italian restaurants.

[sethd]

Is Sutton considered an important reviewer?

[Fat Guy]

I think the strongest argument is that, in general when you're talking about nice restaurants, no reviewer other than Sifton is important. Some would argue Adam Platt is also important, because New York Magazine has traditionally had an important restaurant-reviewer post (Gael Greene occupied it for ages). But there's also probably a respectable argument that any paid reviewer with a budget and an audience is important. Of the online professional reviewers I think there are only two significant ones: Ryan Sutton (Bloomberg) and Alan Richman (GQ online). Richman actually used to hold Sutton's position. I have no idea of their readership numbers. I'm not sure if any business gets driven one way or another by the online reviews, but I know that restaurateurs and publicists follow them very closely. I can pretty much guarantee you that Batali, Bastianich and Ladner are seriously bummed about Sutton's review, even though it might not affect business at all.

[sickchangeup]

There is no way Sutton didn't understand the importance gained by his reviewing the place with a slam just a few weeks after the NYT somewhat controversially gave it 4-stars. I've had most of the dishes he had - the "next day" take on the 100 layer lasagna may be "mushy", but throwing in language referencing Hamburger Helper is purposefully sensationalist and woefully inaccurate. It's a review specifically written to attract pageviews, unfortunately at the expense of a very good restaurant.

It get's worse as it goes, sort of picks up steam. "Chef Mark Ladner’s pork loin here is no better than Babbo’s $29 chop." (Is Babbo's chop good? excellent? poor? Is anyone expecting a loin of any animal to taste better than the chop of that same animal??) The paragraph after writing he could do better at home, he starts with "A near-perfect meal starts to seem possible until service starts to fall apart in the later hours." Wait, what?? "Hamburger helper", "could do better at home", and yet the meal can be characterized as "near-perfect" until several hours in - and only ruined by service?

The irony is that I agree with a lot of the things he noticed, and noticed them myself. But I would have to be hellbent on a takedown to write it up that way, cause this place - no matter what - isn't Ninja.

[oakapple]

I don't think we've seen "professional" reviews that negative of a NYT four-star place since Alain Ducasse at the Essex House.

Weren't all those negative reviews before it had four stars?

Is Sutton considered an important reviewer?

Among pro critics, I think the hierarchy is Sifton, Big Gap, Platt, then everyone else. But Sutton's smackdown got plenty of airtime (several major blogs linked to it prominently), and thanks to google, it will hang around for a long, long time.

...the "next day" take on the 100 layer lasagna may be "mushy", but throwing in language referencing Hamburger Helper is purposefully sensationalist and woefully inaccurate.

Not that I am defending it, but most critics employ a similar writing style in smackdown reviews. For instance, here is Sifton on Xiao Ye (a concededly less important restaurant):

Cabbage said to have been steamed with garlic and chilies, then drizzled with lardo, tastes of cardboard and water, a school-lunch nightmare that is hard to shake. . . . A beef rib braised into pale, flabby submission in a mixture of ginger beer, chilies and tomatoes might have been made by your college roommate in a borrowed Crock-Pot one night over winter break, then discarded in favor of Greek pizza from that place out by the discount liquor store.

Edited October 21, 2010 by oakapple (log)

[LPShanet]

The disparity between the two reviews really doesn't matter since the New YOrk Times review is still considered to be the most presigious and important review in the city. Del Posto is now a New York Times 4 star restaruant and will keep that rating for the forseable future.

It doesn't matter to their business prospects, but it matters to me, and presumably to other diners who read both reviews. For anyone who reads both, Del Posto now seems like a place that can be quite inconsistent...or at the very least a place that isn't universal in its appeal. That's a real contrast to most of the current four-star holders, who don't seem to have generated such variance of opinion.

[LPShanet]

Although, I will say that the argument “Haven’t we had a better, cheaper version of this elsewhere?” that Sutton makes seems symptomatic of the soft bigotry against fancy Italian restaurants.

I don't think the bigotry is only against fancy Italian food specifically, but against fancy versions of a number of cuisines that a segment of the eating population has come to think of as being "value cuisines", and therefore commodities in a way. Food of those ethnicities is treated differently than, say, French cuisine, whose high end tends to mimic its prole cuisine less. So I don't think the bigotry is just against fancy Italian, as it would seem to be true for Chinese, Thai and Middle Eastern food as well. As I said, I think this may stem from the fact that when some of these cuisines are presented in a higher end format, they still rely on many of the same dishes as are available in the low-priced outlets. Specifically, the dishes you get at a high end French restaurant (e.g. Daniel, Jean Georges, etc.) are much less likely to seem like fancified takes on what you'd get at a standard neighborhood bistro or brasserie. That's not to say that they're not influenced by traditional dishes (just as even the most out-there Spanish molecular creations ultimately have their roots in traditional Spanish cuisine). But in the case of Italian food and the others mentioned above, as well as a few more, the chefs tend to serve thinly veiled versions of essentially well known peasant food at much higher prices, without significantly modifying those dishes, "upscaling them" or making them their own. Without the veneer of modification, that probably sets off the "value radar" of many diners who have eaten these dishes for years without paying a premium. It certainly goes a long way to explain the overall mixed reception that places like Mr. Chow, Ilili, 66, Wakiya, Kittichai, Chinatown Brasserie, Pera, and others have received...and can probably be applied to fancy Italian cuisine, as long as places practicing that category keep serving lasagna, potato gnocchi, pasta e fagiole and the like.

[Sneakeater]

I don't know if this is saying the same thing as LPShanet or not, but (unlike the case with Chinese food) the objection many have against fancy Italian restaurants is not strictly value-based.

Many people have a prejudice against fancy Italian restaurants even in Italy. They argue that Italian cuisine has not fostered a restaurant culture, and that anything above the level of tratorria (i.e., ristorantes) serve strained elaborations of the food rather than good versions of the food itself.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Sneakeater (log)

[Fat Guy]

There's an interesting bit of text in Sifton's review this week of Lambs Club. In it he details how, for fear of being recognized, he had a confederate at another table report to him on her experience:

A table of women was eating in a far corner of the restaurant, one of them known to me. I had asked her to record the pains and pleasures of her own meal against the possibility that, after a number of meals in the restaurant and a number of long and fruitful conversations with the restaurant’s beverage manager, Jordan Lari, I had been recognized.

That's the sort of thing a savvy critic can do to compensate for being recognized: you observe the room, you have confederates, you rely on your experience and judgment to figure out if you're getting a representative experience or if the chef is cooking just for you.

I just wonder why he didn't do that at Del Posto. There you have a restaurant where Sifton was surely recognized on every visit, and Ladner (a superb cook) probably made his every dish. In a situation like that, you need to make some effort to get to the bottom of the experiences that other customer are having. It's hard to find many people out there who think Del Posto is a four-star restaurant. It's not like Eleven Madison Park, where you have spirited debate. It just seems like Sifton is an outlier here. His review makes the case for four stars in a very compelling manner, but it rests on a foundation of assumptions that the food is as good as it is.

[oakapple]

There's an interesting bit of text in Sifton's review this week of Lambs Club. In it he details how, for fear of being recognized, he had a confederate at another table report to him on her experience...

That's the sort of thing a savvy critic can do to compensate for being recognized: you observe the room, you have confederates, you rely on your experience and judgment to figure out if you're getting a representative experience or if the chef is cooking just for you.

There have been other Sifton reviews where I wished he had done that.

It's hard to find many people out there who think Del Posto is a four-star restaurant. It's not like Eleven Madison Park, where you have spirited debate. It just seems like Sifton is an outlier here. His review makes the case for four stars in a very compelling manner, but it rests on a foundation of assumptions that the food is as good as it is.

FG, your memory may be better than mine, but has there ever been a four-star review with so little corroborating evidence? Most of the time, when the NYT awards four stars (and to a lesser extent, even three), there is already a considerable body of criticism to support that judgment.

With Sifton, I have come to wonder whether his palate is simply unsophisticated. Read his two-star review of Torrisi Italian Specialties. He describes the food as "comestible short stories," "towering in ambition". He refers to "a burst of creative excellence," cooking that's "aggressively technical," a "combination of kinetic energy and art". All of that, for a $50 menu, where the only choice is "meat or fish".

"Towering in ambition," it seems to me, is the phrase you save for a four-star review. He also awarded two stars to Novitá, a totally off-the-radar neighborhood Italian place as good as about three dozen others you could name.

It seems to me eminently likely that Sifton just doesn't know what he's talking about, most of the time.

Edited October 30, 2010 by oakapple (log)

[Fat Guy]

I think you're right about corroboration. Traditionally, or at least since the 1990s, a New York Times four-star review was usually just confirmation of what serious gourmets already knew had happened or would happen. With Eleven Madison, things got stretched a little. With Del Posto, it's pretty much out of left field. Perhaps a critic of giant stature could push a four-star restaurant uphill against the consensus. I think most likely in this case Sifton will come to regret the decision, unless Del Posto somehow transforms itself to live up to the review (you can make the argument that Eleven Madison is doing that in the wake of Bruni's four-star review).

I don't agree that Sifton doesn't know what he's talking about. I just think that, in the position of reviewer, he has not really brought his talent to bear on the subject matter. When they first appointed him, I remember thinking that he was a great choice. The work he had done on food had been very good, and he had edited the section. Now I wonder if even those who made the choice still think it was a wise one.

[oakapple]

I don't agree that Sifton doesn't know what he's talking about. I just think that, in the position of reviewer, he has not really brought his talent to bear on the subject matter. When they first appointed him, I remember thinking that he was a great choice. The work he had done on food had been very good, and he had edited the section. Now I wonder if even those who made the choice still think it was a wise one.

I never read much of Sifton before he got this job, so I don't have a basis for comparison. I am just bowled over by the mediocrity of his work. Quite apart from whether you agree with the ratings, his reviews are filled with lazy food-writing clichés (e.g., "terrific," "delicious," "very good," used repetitiously), obscure references to irrelevant novelists you never heard of, etc.

Bruni at least wrote well. Despite his limitations, he had a critical sensibility you could relate to, and took the job quite seriously in a way that Sifton doesn't.

[Fat Guy]

If you want to get caught up on pre-reviewer Sifton, here are a few of his "The Way We Eat" columns:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A00E5DF1639F932A0575BC0A96E9C8B63&scp=6&sq=sam+sifton&st=nyt

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/magazine/01food.t.html?scp=7&sq=sam+sifton&st=nyt

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E03EED61639F935A15753C1A96E9C8B63&scp=4&sq=sam+sifton&st=nyt

And a piece on Trinidad dining:

http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/travel/28trinidad.html?scp=10&sq=sam+sifton&st=nyt

I think you're likely to agree that the general quality of the writing is much better than what we're seeing now in the reviews.

[LPShanet]

Alright, it has happened...pigs have flown, hell has frozen over and armageddon is nigh. I went to Del Posto on November 8th, and despite all previous inclinations, I have to say that my experience was MUCH more in line with the one described in Sifton's review than that in Sutton's. I definitely wasn't expecting to drink the Kool Aid, and never would have expected the experience I got based on my own previous visits to Del Posto Enoteca a few years ago, nor based on the fact that I seem to disagree with just about every subjective aspect of Sifton's reviews in general (and a surprising amount of even the objective stuff, too). But I have to say that I had what was probably the best Italian restaurant meal I've had in this country since...well, the last time I went to a NY Times 4-star Italian restaurant. (That would be Parioli Romanissimo for those too young to recall the only previous Italian joint to snare the honor.)

That's not to say that I like everything about Del Posto. I still think the decor is more evocative of a cruise ship trying to be "classy" than a top-tier temple of gastronomy. I still think the piano music comes off a bit like a desperate attempt to conjure up a bygone era that never really existed. (And it might have eventually gotten annoying if it hadn't stopped midway through the night.) The overall feel when you first walk in is that you're dining in the in-house restaurant at the best hotel in any second tier city in the flyovers. But those aesthetic quibbles aside, the meal was the real deal, and no one was more shocked than I.

First, an important disclosure. I wasn't just dining as a random guy off the street, as I typically do. I was with people in the food biz (a chef and a former cook/FOH person), and we therefore were definitely being given a "friend of the house" experience. Still, even without the things that would seem to be a product of that treatment, I still believe we would have had a really exceptional meal, and certainly the best Italian meal I've had in recent memory. And all that without even having much pasta.

Since it has been over a week since my visit, and quite a bit of wine was imbibed, I'm sure I will omit a few of the items we tried, and won't do full justice to the meal in terms of detail. But I'll try to recount the specifics that I do remember.

Beginning at the beginning, I think one of the areas people may be less aware of Del Posto excellence in is their cocktail program. It's probably also one of the reasons I don't have a sharper memory of all the courses we ate. We sampled a number of their drinks (both classic cocktails and proprietary versions), and all were really fine examples of their kind. We had a Sazerac, a pisco sour, a Clover Club (which we all nervously agreed was as good as any we've had at the namesake bar), and the embarrassingly named but delicious Honey Don't Call Me Honey. All of them were of a level and precision that would be at home in any of the top cocktail bars in town.

After sitting down, we were brought a series of little bites, including three fried morsels (one was chickpeas, one was cod and one was an olive). The olive was especially eye-opeining, and filled with a complex, rich flavor rather than the typically straightforward salinity of most olives. One diner at our table, who usually dislikes olives in any form, really loved that one. There was also a little demi-tasse of soup, rich with capon broth and delicious. Also worth noting were the butter and lardo that came with our bread, both of which were top notch.

The first formal course was a carne cruda with truffled salsa, and Parmigiano-Reggiano. In place of (or rather in addition to) the usual shaved porcini mushrooms, we were treated to a generous shaving of white truffles. It was much more subtle than a typical steak tartare, since the overwhelming raw onion flavor was absent. But it was still rich and savory, and made a great combo with the truffles.

Next came Lidia’s jota with smoked pork, sauerkraut & crisped wheat. Jota is sort of a distant cousin of cassoulet, in soup form. Based on white beans (cannellini, I think), the soup was smooth and rich, but still hearty. And, of course, it made an excellent vehicle for more white truffles. With all the pastas in the primi section of the menu, it would be easy to overlook ordering this, but it's well worth having. The jota was followed by a whole wheat tonnarelli with spicy cicerchie, fried rosemary & shaved bonito. I'm not usually a big fan of whole wheat pastas (other than buckwheat soba), but this one really worked. The bonito flakes added a nice umami component, and the spicy little chickpeas were an unusual taste, but they definitely worked in the context of the dish. Because we ate so many other things, we actually didn't get to try any of the more traditional pasta primi courses, and I'm really looking forward to trying those on a future visit.

Our first main was a striped bass, though I can't say for certain that it was the preparation listed on the menu. It came to the table with the tail still attached for a viewing, and was then whisked away for tableside preparation. It's worth noting that Del Posto seems to really revel in the whole tableside preparation thing. Personally, I don't think it's really necessary, and serves more as a show-off thing. Surely, people in the kitchen should be able to prepare the dish as or more skillfully than the servers, but I do enjoy seeing the stuff come together. And I suppose the predilection for tableside preparation is in keeping with the restaurant's style and decor. In any event, the fish was lovely. Firm, super-fresh and clean tasting, and seasoned perfectly. No quibbles with this one.

The final main was a veal tenderloin in ash with golden polenta and osso bucco vinaigrette. It was a perfect balance of flavors, and also gave us a final dose of truffles. The polenta was tossed tableside on a marble slab with fresh truffles, like some twisted version of the Coldstone Creamery for foodies who lean more savory than sweet. The veal tenderloin was an absolutely perfect medium rare (presumably sous vide) apart from the ash it had been rolled in, and had an amazing silken consistency. Rich and mild at the same time, the various elements all complemented each other in this dish. Very well thought out.

Already fairly full at this point, the pastry chef, Brooks Headley, came out and told us a little about the desserts we were going to have to make room for. And boy are we glad we did. Despite our fullness, and the fact that I'm not a huge fan of sweets, everything he prepared was a highlight of the meal. As good as the savory food was, his desserts are worth the trip by themselves. Rather than focusing on just the sweet notes of various ingredients, Headley gives equal or greater time to the "other" notes in his desserts...the sour/acid notes, the floral notes and other less expected aspects. It's sweets for those without a sweet tooth. Without being gimmicky at all, he is one of the most inventive and talented pastry chefs working in the country right now. Even before the main desserts came out, the palate cleansers were an excellent indicator of the interesting things to come. Brooks told us that he had been having some fun using extra/surplus ingredients from the savory kitchen. He had made a cashew gelato, if I remember correctly, and then a sorbetto from verjus that they had been stuck with too much of at one point. The sorbetto was one of the single greatest flavors of the whole meal, and a revelation in its own regard. Far from the wimpy flavors often used, this sorbet was assertive, acidic, palate-cleansing, refreshing and delicious. Wish I could keep it around at home. The actual featured desserts were equally clever and eye-opening. In particular, a sfera de caprino (basically a ball of soft cheese) with celery and fig agrodolce and celery sorbetto was spectacular. Tart, sweet, and complex, it hit all the notes that dessert should. Other desserts included a polenta-squash cake with roasted pumpkin and sage gelato, and an eggplant and chocolate tart with ricotta ice cream that made you feel like eggplant was always (or should be) a dessert ingredient. It worked seamlessly with the chocolate.

All the courses were paired perfectly by the service director with various wines too numerous (and poorly recalled) to list. Overall, the service felt both friendly and extremely professional, without being stuffy. Our servers were humorous, informative and seemed to enjoy what they were doing, which is infectious. The meal ended with a tour of the kitchen(s), which are HUGE. In addition to the main kitchen, which is as impressive as any in town, there are prep kitchens on a lower level that occupy almost the entire footprint of the restaurant. Mark Ladner wasn't in town during our visit, so it would seem that they can execute at a very high level, even without him actually being present. It is certainly possible to make a good case for Del Posto's four stars based on the visit I had in all areas of analysis (food, service, decor, wine, etc.).

I'm guessing that the variation in the recent professional reviews of Del Posto may be due to some inconsistency, though it would seem that they're working to eliminate that issue. There was certainly no sign of it during my visit, which didn't have a single low point (apart from the decor, which I suppose is a matter of taste). It's also worth noting that a few of the items mentioned in Sutton's takedown suggest that at least some of his visits were done in earlier seasons, as they mention menu items that aren't on the current menu.

I'm sure the debate over Del Posto will rage on, and I have to say that I never expected to find myself on Sifton's side of things in this particular instance.

[oakapple]

LPShanet’s meal sounds like one for the ages.

I think there quite a few NYC restaurants, beyond those that have four stars already, that are capable of serving a four-star meal, if you catch them at their best. To be worthy of four-stars, a restaurant needs to: A) Be capable of serving that kind of meal; B) Actually DO IT fairly reliably, even when the diner isn't a VIP.

The knock on the Batali–Bastianich restaurants is that if you aren't a VIP, the drop-off tends to be both steep and noticeable. I do look forward to trying Del Posto again. The question is whether I’ll get the four-star treatment, or the “Who the f___ are you?” treatment I’ve sometimes seen at their other places.

[Fat Guy]

I've received some pretty poor treatment at Batali-Bastianich restaurants in the past year. Whether that's because they recognized me and hate me, or didn't recognize me and hate everyone, or consider recognizing me to be an irrelevant act, or some combination of other factors, I don't know. But I must confess, my lunch at Del Posto yesterday was every bit the four-star meal -- and I really don't want to be saying that. It was also with a big group and I'm pretty sure nobody at the restaurant knew or cared about my presence. In particular, I don't think I've ever had pastas that achieved such a high level of refinement. The quality of beef served surpassed anything I've had in recent memory. And all the service and appointments were absolutely first rate.

I only tried four items, so this is just a snapshot, but it was all impressive. We started with carne cruda with truffled salsa, Parmigiano and shaved porcini. Last week I had Manzo's version of the dish (Manzo is the Batali-Bastianich restaurant at Eataly). No comparison. The Del Posto rendition was balanced across all its flavors, the knife work was scary accurate and the truffle flavors (albeit probably from truffle oil, which is sort of an haute copout) put it over the top. Next we had garganelli verdi with ragu Bolognese. The garganelli, made with spinach, didn't look at all like the pale green spinach pasta you see in supermarkets. They were a deep forest green. Lidia Bastianich was in the room (this was a lunch hosted by some Dolcetto producers) and I asked her about the color. She insisted it was achieved through spinach only. Next, caramelle (pasta tubes with the ends twisted such that they look like little wrapped candies) with gorgonzola dolce and black truffle butter. They were impossibly delicate. I can't believe they survived the trip from the kitchen. Finally, a thick hunk of New York strip roast with arugula and eggplant parmigiana torta. The Piemontese (or Piemontese-style raised in America -- I wasn't totally clear on it) beef, from Pat LaFreida, was really off the charts in terms of the combination of mineral-rich flavor and non-mushy tenderness (it had the texture of cold butter), and the eggplant parmigiana was on par with the other best eggplant parmigiana I've ever had, both this month -- the other being at Lincoln. All of a sudden the bar has been raised on this dish.

I had to run out before dessert -- I had low expectations of the meal so scheduled something earlier than I should have. Another reason I'll have to return to go deeper into the menu.

[LPShanet]

Glad I'm not the only one pleasantly surprised by Del Posto. I hope you return soon, as I'm eager to hear what you think of the dessert program. For me, it was one of the highlights, despite the fact that I'm not usually a dessert guy.

[davythefatboy]

Sorry to be dumb, I frequently eat dessert, but I am not familiar with "dessert programs".

Is that like when I went to the Festival of Gas Pavilion at the 64 Worlds Fair and my father was doing legal work for George Lang and he gave us one of every dessert on the menu? That was a program I'd love to eat in repeats...

[Fat Guy]

Often, restaurants have various programs: the beverage program, the dessert program, the cheese program... It's just a part of the vernacular of restaurant management.