Jean Georges vs. Per Se

[Busboy]

I have reservations for J-G for 6 and Per Se for 4. I will cancel one or the other well before the date, so don't worry about that. The question is this: should I blow off my two kids (picky eaters) and pay the $175/each for four? Or should I take all six (my friend's birthday is the occasion) to J-G at a relatively modest $60 per? Is Per Se that much better, that I'll regret not eating there?

Not a bad dilemma and yes, I will fix the reservations post-haste.

[Sneakeater]

I think you should decide this one on non-food grounds.

Like, how much better would it be for you to have your kids there?

How much would your kids prefer not to be there?

(I like per se better than Jean Georges -- but I can't say I've ever regretted eating at Jean Georges.)

DIDACTIC POST SCRIPT: The chef's name has a hypen in it -- but the restaurant's doesn't.

[prasantrin]

I ditto Sneakeater, but I would change the question a little to "How much better would it be for your friend to have your kids there?"

If you think your friend (the birthday celebrant) wouldn't mind one way or the other, I'd take my friends to Per Se, and then maybe do lunch at Jean Georges with everyone, or just with your family.

[daisy17]

I assume this is for lunch? (given the JG price reference) Part of me feels like you can't go wrong food wise, but there are a couple of things you might consider:

I think that Per Se is the harder reservation to get - or, at least, it was until recently. If you feel like you'll go at some point in the future, even if it's a challenge to get the reservation, perhaps you don't need to go this time. Two years ago I would have told you not to give it up.

I'm not sure how enjoyable picky eater kids are going to find JG. Maybe take a look at the menu before you make a decision. I'm all for exposing kids to dining experiences like this, but I don't think it's an easy menu for a kid (at least it wouldn't have been for me). If you think they'll enjoy it, certainly that's a reason to go.

My first experience at Jean Georges was with a friend for dinner. I was turning 30. The service made me feel like a child playing dress up for the evening. Wasn't too pleased with that. Have since been back, didn't have that experience, and thought the whole meal was much better than the first time. The food was excellent. I do personally feel that JG has a stuffiness and formality about it that I could live without. Again, I'd consider whether your kids are going to enjoy that.

In contrast, my dinner at Per Se (like that at French Laundry), was absolutely delightful all around. It's the kind of meal you remember forever.

[sickchangeup]

Man, this is probably the toughest question for me to answer, as these two at lunch are literally my favorite meal experiences in the city and I go to each as frequently as I can (the decision on dinner wouldn't be nearly so close for me).

For purposes of background, Per Se is to me the best restaurant in the city. JG is, to me, 2nd best - there is a significant gap in my estimation, but those don't show so much on a first visit. At the heart of the issue is that JG's lunch is such a huge exceptional value, it's so deeply discounted, that dollar for dollar, it may actually be the better choice. It's insanely cheap, order the Tuna Ribbons and stop to consider that this is a $14.50 dish at a 3 star establishment for a second. Then add in the amuses, and the mignardises and it's crazy.

In my perfect world, I'd visit one this weekend, the other next... forever! In my perfect world I'd also be quite wealthy and commitment free.

I'll add these points to your evaluation: You would need to order 4 courses and dessert at JG to match the amount of food you will be served at Per Se for lunch. I would also add (and this is particularly important for lunch I find) that non-alcoholic drinks are included at Per Se. So you can ask the house to do a non-alcoholic beverage pairing, finish with a cappuccino, and not pay a dime extra. Seeing kids get that huge Grand Cru glass filled with Navarro Vineyards grape juice makes me laugh everytime. The same non-alcoholic pairing would cost you extra at JG. In JG's corner is also the fact that they will do half pours of wine for you, so consider that too.

The final thing is the environment. I've had issues "fighting" my way through Nougatine at times, having people poke their heads into JG, and with the crowded lone bathroom stall at JG. It's not exactly peaceful on the weekends, it's nice but not special occasion nice IMO. Per Se is, by contrast, an absolute temple with an amazing park view that really makes an occasion feel more special.

[sct4a]

JG is great and all but given the option I would always go with per se. The service is 110x better as is the food in my opinion. Per Se has also always tended to be a more memorable meal and overall experience. Granted I am probably rather biased towards per se and go at least once a month If you were going to give per se a miss I would seriously consider L'Atelier De Joel Robuchon I consider it pretty much on the same level as JG.

[sethd]

JG is great and all but given the option I would always go with per se. The service is 110x better as is the food in my opinion. Per Se has also always tended to be a more memorable meal and overall experience. Granted I am probably rather biased towards per se and go at least once a month If you were going to give per se a miss I would seriously consider L'Atelier De Joel Robuchon I consider it pretty much on the same level as JG.

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I had the opportunity to eat at JEan Georges on MOnday and Per Se last night. THough, I think that PEr Se consistently gives the best overall dining experience in the city, Jean Georges is just microns behind them.(as is Le Bernardin). The question then becomes what kind of food do you enjoy and the overall price/value ratio especially at lunch. You can't go wrong with either: THe lunch value in the main dining room at JEan Georges is the best in the city, hands down!!

As for Robuchon's restaurant, the food is superb but i think it is much too overpriced for what it is.

[Fat Guy]

I disagree that Jean Georges and Le Bernardin are microns behind Per Se. I see Per Se as being in a different category altogether. Were there a fifth star in the New York Times system, Per Se would have it. Jean Georges and Le Bernardin would not.

That being said, Jean Georges and Le Bernardin serve superb food. Per Se is better but not twice as good. As with all these luxury purchases, what you get at the margin is an improvement that tends to be small relative to its cost. $500 bottles of wine are not 500% better than $100 bottles of wine, if such things can be quantified. So whether Per Se is worth double the cost is something that really depends on the perspective of the decisionmaker. If price is no object, and if the only desire is to have the best meal experience, there's no question in my mind that Per Se is the way to go. If value, party size, diversity of experiences, et al., are considerations, then that of course changes things.

[MichaelCE]

My two dinners at Jean Georges were very disappointing. I have never done the bargain lunch. Per Se is wonderful and I echo the thought that you don't want to give up a hard to get reservaton. I also think it would be a great experience for the right kind of kids. To me Le Bernardin and EMP are the only two restaurants in NY in the niche below Per Se (although we are going to try the renewed Daniel tomorrow night.)

[Sneakeater]

Just to keep it clear in the mix, per se reservations are not particularly hard to come by these days. It's way different from a couple of years ago.

[Busboy]

A new variable is in the mix: a seventh (or fifth) guest has come onto the scene, making an ability to expand into what I assume (at this late date) is a relatively rare six- or eight-top a primary consideration.

The kids are too old to be picky eaters but, alas are. It was dragging my son through nine courses, six of which were fish, which he detests but manfully forced down, that has made me wary of foisting my preferences on him. On the other hand, at 20 and 16 the kids join us for dinner far more rarely than I like, and I'll certainly find a way to work in a nice New York dinner with them over the course of the weekend.

I will report back.

[mrud]

with the new variable it will probably be jg by default. to me per se is the better restaurant, but jg is my favorite lunch spot in the city.

[sickchangeup]

If you keeping adding peeps, you're inching into Per Se East Room (private room) territory, which might be the single finest table in all of Manhattan. Cost-wise, there is a fixed minimum cost involved, but you're getting closer by the minute it seems.

[Eatmywords]

Cost and logistics aside it doesn't seem like the youngens would appreciate or enjoy either. I say Per Se for the elders and a Landmarc burger them downstairs.

[maf]

My 11 year old is a very picky eater and she loved lunch at JG. I would have never seen that coming. She had the shrimp and the chicken confit. I took her for the experience, hoping she'd eat something, and she declered it the best meal she ever had.

[oakapple]

My 11 year old is a very picky eater and she loved lunch at JG. I would have never seen that coming. She had the shrimp and the chicken confit. I took her for the experience, hoping she'd eat something, and she declered it the best meal she ever had.

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I'd say she has a brilliant career ahead of her.

[Busboy]

Cost and logistics aside it doesn't seem like the youngens would appreciate or enjoy either.  I say Per Se for the elders and a Landmarc burger them downstairs.

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The are actually both better than the wife of the guest of honor (but she has an obligation to look happy no matter what, on account of her husband's 50th birthday), and are picky in such a way that they are fine with upscale a la carte menus and expanding their horizons is part of an ongoing effort. The boy in particular -- aside from his fish-phobia -- has actually become pretty adventurous.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Busboy (log)

[Busboy]

Well, we ended up at Jean Georges and had a wonderful dinner for seven for substantially less than I would have expected to spend at any upscale restaurant. It helps when a majority of the guests don't drink, but coming away from a three-hour lunch with a tab of just over $700 was pretty sweet -- I've been known to spend almost that much just on dinner with my wife. Only problem was service that can only be described as clumsy -- servers milling about for many minutes waiting for the last member of the team to show up so they can drop all the plates at the same time; dirty plates not cleared, main courses for those who ordered two served at the same time as the second courses for those of us who got three, and a request that they pretend to have a table for two in my friend's name -- it was a surprise -- forgotten within minutes of them agreeing to it. Very amateurish. A good time was had by all, nonetheless.

[sickchangeup]

What did you and your kids wind up eating? No pictures?? And yeah, despite a few service issues - which you likely wouldn't have had at Per Se - a lunch that cheap and at that high a level might just be impossible to beat in this city.

[Busboy]

What did you and your kids wind up eating? No pictures?? And yeah, despite a few service issues - which you likely wouldn't have had at Per Se - a lunch that cheap and at that high a level might just be impossible to beat in this city.

It was sufficiently social event that I left the camera at home and paid less attention to the food, but it was all very enjoyable.

My daughter ended up getting goat cheese with crispy leeks which I enjoyed as well, and a confit of chicken, which she did not finish and I didn't get a bite of. Son had the alarmingly tasty corn raviolis with tomato and whatever --- one of those dishes that seems ridiculously simple but tastes ridiculously good -- and a filet, which he liked fine (I liked the roasted tomatoes that came with it).

I personally scarfed down an excellent foie gras brulee and some disappointing crispy sweetbreads (bland, though well prepared) in addition to the aforementioned corn raviolis.

All in all, it was a wonderful value, though we're already plotting a dinner for two at Per Se for November, just for comparison's sake.

[gatilgan]

I personally scarfed down an excellent foie gras brulee and some disappointing crispy sweetbreads (bland, though well prepared) in addition to the aforementioned corn raviolis.

I had roasted sweetbreads ( with pickled peach,arugula and pink peppercorn)last week and thought it was very good.