The Record Restaurant Reviews

[Rail Paul]

I'll pay the $25 any day for a great French provincial meal.  In other words, what I wrote was true, I'll be back there in the future spending my own money.

Welcome, Rene -

Your forthrightness is impressive.

Where else would you select as your favorite places to spend $25 per person on dinner?

As a professional, you must have identified places which excel at various price points. Which meet that target and are within 15 miles of Hackensack, and don't require crossing a large body of water?

Paul

[ngatti]

As "northjersey.com" has apparantly "tarted up" their front end, it seems that all the previous links to The Record restaurant reviews have been lost.

You can find them by clicking on "entertainment" on the northjersey.com front page's left sidebar. A further click on the drop down "Dining" and then "Restaurant Reviews" should link you into the last two weeks reviews in descending date order. You'll have to do a search to find the others.

Hope this helps

Nick

Edited January 22, 2003 by ngatti (log)

[ngatti]

Links to The Record's reviews:

David Bonom does Bel Vedere

Nancy Thorpe does the Chelsea Grill

Nick

Edited January 25, 2003 by ngatti (log)

[ngatti]

Maria Rabat at "Basilico" in Millburn

Nancy Thorpe reviews "After Athens"

Nick

Edited February 1, 2003 by ngatti (log)

[tommy]

ho hum.

[ngatti]

She used the word "toothsome".

(slowly I turn, step by step...)

Nick

[Rene Mack]

ho hum. 

I noticed your quote. This is Rene, one of the Record's restaurant reviewers (I think I've been doing this for six years). Anyway, if the bathroom is filthy, you have to wonder what's going on in the kitchen. One of the all time top restaurants in North Jersey had a bathroom so bad I actually took photos of it in case no one believed me. I mean, the staff uses these rooms. If they don't want the bathroom or clean the vents (over years) do I really think they are washing their hands? Every detail counts. Rene.

[tommy]

ho hum. 

I noticed your quote. This is Rene, one of the Record's restaurant reviewers (I think I've been doing this for six years). Anyway, if the bathroom is filthy, you have to wonder what's going on in the kitchen. One of the all time top restaurants in North Jersey had a bathroom so bad I actually took photos of it in case no one believed me. I mean, the staff uses these rooms. If they don't want the bathroom or clean the vents (over years) do I really think they are washing their hands? Every detail counts. Rene.

rene,

be that as it may, a clean bathroom doesn't suggest a clean kitchen. also, conscientious employees will wash their hands regardless of the condition of the bathroom (no soap, of course, is a bad sign), and irresponsible employees will skip washing their hands even in the cleanest of restrooms. i don't put too much stock in the very unscientific deductions than come from surveying a bathroom.

note: that quote is from someone who has worked in the industry for some years: "Some people say they judge a restaurant by the cleanliness of the restrooms. Those people are idiots." - unknown

also, i enjoy reading your reviews.

Edited February 2, 2003 by tommy (log)

[ngatti]

also, i enjoy reading your reviews. 

suckup

Nick

[tommy]

also, i enjoy reading your reviews. 

suckup

Nick

i was told last night by a friend of yours that i'm much nicer in person than i am online. but i thought i was pretty nice online. so i guess i'm not. therefore i'll try harder you imbecile.

[ngatti]

Thank you sir, may I have another?

Nick

[glenn]

Hi Rene, thanks for speaking up. I enjoyed your review on After Athens and agree with much of what you say. All in all, I had a fun time there and enjoyed the food, and I think you were basically saying the same.

As for bathrooms, I've worked in 2 restaurants where the condition of the bathrooms ranged from abyssmal at one and clean enough to eat off the floor at another. At the one with the disgusting bathrooms, probably not enough attention was paid to them during service, but that is not such a simple job. When the restaurant is packed and the toilets are in constant use, how do you consistently keep them clean? A busser was assigned the task, but he didn't have time to take away from his other duties to give the rooms the attention that was needed. Certainly the restaurant could have employed someone to do the job, but that was cost prohibitive. I'm not being entirely defensive of the restaurant, but it certainly had no bearing on the food -- cooks normally wash their hands in the kitchen anyway. You have no idea what slobs some customers are. There was one place where every so often the sh!t had to be wiped off the floor. And just last week, someone put a huge hole in the toilet bowl -- we're still trying to figure out how he/she did it.

And the one with the squeaky clean bathrooms -- the owner is obsessed with cleanliness and has nothing better to do with her time, seriously! And you would not believe some of the stuff that goes on there.

And yeah, post those pictures sometime :)).

[Rosie]

I still have a problem with dirty bathrooms and if the restaurant can't take the time/money to be sure that the bathroom is clean then I automatically think that they will not take the time to insure that the kitchen is clean. May not be true in all cases but that's where I'm coming from. Same with bread. The first thing you have is the bread. If it's not good chances are the rest of the meal will be lousy.

[glenn]

Pure mythololgy. Why single out bread and bathrooms? If the outdoor sign is crooked or the front glass is smudged or the floor has a crack or the table cloth has a tear or they don't use tablecloths or the table is wobbly or the hostess is wearing unfashionable glasses or the hostess doesn't appear unitl 3 minutes after you arrive or you caught the busser picking his nose or a light bulb is out, these are surely just as reliable indicators that the restaurant places little importance on a clean kitchen.

[Nockerl]

Pure mythololgy.  Why single out bread and bathrooms?  If the outdoor sign is crooked or the front glass is smudged or the floor has a crack or the table cloth has a tear or they don't use tablecloths or the table is wobbly or the hostess is wearing unfashionable glasses or the hostess doesn't appear unitl 3 minutes after you arrive or you caught the busser picking his nose or a light bulb is out, these are surely just as reliable indicators that the restaurant places little importance on a clean kitchen.

Because as the diner I am not privy to what goes on in the kitchen. So I am left with the visual clues, physical clues the restauratuer leaves for me to find. Granted a dirty bathroom may not be indicative of a dirty kitchen there is nothing telling me that it is not.

The other point is that it is the responsibility of the restaurant to keep their bathrooms and kitchen clean. There is no excuse for dirty bathrooms and the law says the kitchen must not be (although we know the truth).

[glenn]

You didn't answer the question... why should the bathroom be singled out as THE INDICATOR of the cleanliness of the kitchen as opposed to the dozens of other factors that might show a lack of concern of the appearance? You also need to take into account that at times at some restaurants it's impossible to monitor the bathrooms. Besides, you normally DO need to be concerned with the cleanliness of the kitchen no matter what the condition of the bathrooms.

[tommy]

i am so with glenn on this one that it's ridiculous.

how 'bout this brain-teaser: a restaurant notices its bathroom is a bit dirty and that they can't keep up with it during peak hours. so they hire a guy to stand in there, accepting dollar tips whilst handing out lollipops and cleaning the bathroom. now the bathroom is always spotless. so, what affect did this have on the cleanliness of the kitchen?

i saw a a bit of garbage on the lawn in front of The Ryland Inn the other day. what a filthy kitchen they must have.

Edited February 3, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Nockerl]

You didn't answer the question... why should the bathroom be singled out as THE INDICATOR of the cleanliness of the kitchen as opposed to the dozens of other factors that might show a lack of concern of the appearance?  You also need to take into account that at times at some restaurants it's impossible to monitor the bathrooms.  Besides, you normally DO need to be concerned with the cleanliness of the kitchen no matter what the condition of the bathrooms.

I didn't say that it was the single biggest indicator but for most people it probably is.

As a diner, I can't waltz into the kitchen and say to the chef, "excuse me, mind if I nose around and see if this place is clean?" But I can and will walk into a bathroom and notice if it is properly maintained. Now, if you read my post carefully I wrote that a dirty bathroom MAY NOT (meaning doesn't prove) indicate that the kitchen is dirty. But at the same time if the bathrooms aren't maintained, the tables not properly wiped down, silverware not clean, smudged glasses, then what am I supposed to think? The average diner, not the savvy foodie, looks at those things and can make the leap that says "ok, it's dirty in the bathroom, so what does the kitchen look like?" Especially in smaller restaurants where the kitchen staff uses the the same bathroom as the guests. Those same people go from the dirty bathroom to the kitchen. That begs the question "did the food preparer wash his/her hands?"

Granted there are small ethnic restaurants that I love, the food is terrific and the bathrooms are disgusting. Does that stop me from going back? no. As a matter of fact a favorite Indian restaurant of mine had a gross bathroom and i had the chance to tour the kitchen and speak with the chef and the kitchen was, save the normal things that fall to the floor during service, spotless. So then it would be wrong to assume the kitchen was dirty. ON the flip side I worked in a NY high profile 3-star restaurant where the bathrooms, dining rooms and all else were impeccable. But the boxes of plum tomatoes were full of ones that were half eaten by mice. The steps down tothe prep area were greasy. There was every effort to keep the place clean but it wasn't the cleanest kitchen i've ever been in. If you compared it to the impeccably clean kitchen at Heartbeat in the W Hotel it was a slum.

Glenn, you are right that it is not a true indicator but for those who casually dine it is one of the best clues they can see.

[tommy]

nockerl, so you know enough about restaurants to know that it's not an indicator. fair enough. that's what i was hoping to hear.

That begs the question "did the food preparer wash his/her hands?"

i addressed this in a earlier post. what does the condition of the bathroom have to do with the common sense of an employee? those who don't wash their hands tend to not wash their hands in dirty *or* clean bathrooms, whether at work, home, or your house. to me, a dirty bathroom *does not* beg the question, er, in question.

Edited February 3, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Nockerl]

i am so with glenn on this one that it's ridiculous. 

how 'bout this brain-teaser:  a restaurant notices its bathroom is a bit dirty and that they can't keep up with it during peak hours.  so they hire a guy to stand in there, accepting dollar tips whilst handing out lollipops and cleaning the bathroom.  now the bathroom is always spotless.  so, what affect did this have on the cleanliness of the kitchen?

i saw a a bit of garbage on the lawn in front of The Ryland Inn the other day.  what a filthy kitchen they must have.

Riddle me this batman:

If the restaurateur cared enough to hire someone to stand in the bathroom and take care of it and the clientele (for a dollar a pop). What proof do you have that says it doesn't have an effect on the kitchen?

Perhaps what it says is that this owner really cares about what the public perceives and in an effort to show that the kitchen is indeed clean he's gotten a little good PR going for himself/herself by hiring a bathroom attendant. Then again it doesn't necessarily mean that the kitchen is clean. And what I am and have been talking about is the perception the diner has of the restaurant. Attention to detail. You talk to someone like Danny Meyer and it's about attention to detail and hospitality and part of hospitality is making sure your customers know that you have clean bathrooms. And your customers seeing clean bathrooms, a clean dining room, etc will be left with the impression/knowledge that the kitchen is probably pretty clean.

As for the Ryland Inn, I have been in that kitchen and it is spotless. And had Craig Shelton known about that piece of paper on the lawn, he'd have gone out there and picked it up himself. Why? Because he cares what impression his guests get when they experience his establishment.

[tommy]

nockerl, but you and i are not the average diner. if you're talking about the impression that it makes on the average diner, then i'm totally in agreement with you. they also like to see a sprig of parsley on the side of their plates because it's so "fancy."

my point about the ryland inn, of course, was to suggest that there's a good chance that if something blew across the lawn, the staff might not notice it. and if i did happen to notice it before they sent their people out to pick it up, drawing conclusions about the cleanliness of the kitchen would be ignorant.

additionally, i'm under the impression that bathroom attendants aren't hired, but rather work for free and live on tips. it's, if anything, a *cheap* way of the restaurant to handle a dirty bathroom problem, and, to me, doesn't suggest anything about how much they care about their restaurant, their customers, or their workers.

i'm off to get a haircut. see you in 3 hours.

Edited February 3, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Nockerl]

additionally, i'm under the impression that bathroom attendants aren't hired, but rather work for free and live on tips.  it's, if anything, a *cheap* way of the restaurant to handle a dirty bathroom problem, and, to me, doesn't suggest anything about how much they care about their restaurant, their customers, or their workers.

i'm off to get a haircut.  see you in 3 hours.

I think some pay and some are just on tips, but the ones just on tips seem to be more clubby type places. At least in my experience.

Have a good hair cut:

ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING

[Nockerl]

nockerl, but you and i are not the average diner.  if you're talking about the impression that it makes on the average diner, then i'm totally in agreement with you.  they also like to see a sprig of parsley on the side of their plates because it's so "fancy."

I agree with you. But then there are exceptions and I think Rose pointed that out earlier. She's a savvy diner and yet a dirty bathroom leads her to believe that a kitchen could be less than sparkling.

[Rachel Perlow]

It occurs to me that having a restroom attendant, especially if it is a place where the employees use the same restroom, encourages everyone to wash their hands 'cause they know they're being watched. Of course, places with restroom attendants are more likely to have an employee bathroom in the back.

[Rail Paul]

It occurs to me that having a restroom attendant, especially if it is a place where the employees use the same restroom, encourages everyone to wash their hands 'cause they know they're being watched. Of course, places with restroom attendants are more likely to have an employee bathroom in the back.

There was actually a study on this a few years ago.

The conclusion was exactly as you suggest. An attendant's presence guarantees close to 100% washing compliance. They used a videocam, properly positioned to view only the sinks and the door to run their testing. Without the attendant, but using the same time samples, the rate was about 70%

Depending on the state, such a test might run afoul of the "reasonable expectation of privacy" rules that govern private situations. Like the video/audio nannycams and their litigation potential.