Cocktails That End Up in the Sink

[KatieLoeb]

I'm a big fan of all three of those vermouths you mention, although I consider them for completely different applications. I like the Boissiere sweet as my "well" vermouth, the Antica for making the Turbo version of any cocktail that has sweet vermouth prevalent in the flavor profile (essential in what I've dubbed the Money Manhattan), and the Punt e Mes for Red Hooks and other places I need that little bit of bitter to dial back the drink.

[campus five]

I was trying to come up with sherry based aperitvo cocktail to precede / accompany a spanish-style garlic shrimp appetizer for valentines day. I thought a martini variation with a medium amantillado sherry would be a good choice, especially since there'll be some sherry in shrimp.

I started 1 oz each Plymouth to Lustau Los Arcos, with 2 dashes of 50-50 fees/reagans orange.

It was so dry that I kept adding ingredients one at a time, until all of the following had been added:

1/2 oz Lustau East India Sherry

1/2 oz Carpano Antica

1 bar spoon cointreau

1 bar spoon 1:1 simple

It was only after adding the syrup that I decided it was time to call it a day.

[thirtyoneknots]

I bought a bottle of Dolin to try tonight with Sapphire. Not optimistic. I also dumped a Brooklyn also made with Vya and 1 1/2 tsp Ramazzotti + 1/2 tsp Cointreau + 3 dashes Angostura Orange to simulate the Amer Picon. I wonder if the Vya is at fault here or my approximation of the Amer Picon. It was simply terrible, and I've heard such good things about the Brooklyn.

You seem to have figured it out on your own in the subsequent post, but I'll just say anyway that Vya, while fine on the rocks with a twist, or in a plain Martini or Manhattan, is not very good cocktail vermouth. The dry in particular is going to make most drinks taste quite whacko.

Bianco vermouth is wonderful on the rocks with a twist and also can be fun to sub for Lillet in many drinks calling for it. Anvil in Houston was doing a pretty brilliant drink some time back with Chamomile-infused Pisco done up 2:1 with bianco vermouth and orange bitters (I think they use Angostura).

[slkinsey]

. . . I also dumped a Brooklyn also made with Vya and 1 1/2 tsp Ramazzotti + 1/2 tsp Cointreau + 3 dashes Angostura Orange to simulate the Amer Picon. I wonder if the Vya is at fault here or my approximation of the Amer Picon. It was simply terrible, and I've heard such good things about the Brooklyn.

There are a number of problems with this, not least that this drink is not a Brooklyn.

One big issue that jumps out is that the Brooklyn is made with rye or bourbon, dry vermouth, Amer Picon, and maraschino liqueur. So you have Cointreau that's not supposed to be in there, and you don't have the maraschino that is supposed to be in there. Or are you saying that the Ramazotti, Cointreau and bitters all together comprised an attempt at an on-the-fly Amer Picon replica?

The second big issue is the use of Amaro Ramazotti in place of Amer Picon. Ramazotti can be used as the base of an Amer Picon replica (see here, but is not a good substitute at full strength. If you want something that makes a pretty good substitute at full strength, seek our Amaro CioCiaro. Otherwise, you'll need to make some kind of substitute or use a lesser amount of Torani Amer.

Regardless, this can be a difficult cocktail to balance properly. It's not likely to work with a Ramazotti/Cointreau/Angostura combination in place of Amer Picon without significant tweaking.

Edited February 12, 2010 by slkinsey (log)

[EvergreenDan]

Or are you saying that the Ramazotti, Cointreau and bitters all together comprised an attempt at an on-the-fly Amer Picon replica? ...

Regardless, this can be a difficult cocktail to balance properly. It's not likely to work with a Ramazotti/Cointreau/Angostura combination in place of Amer Picon without significant tweaking.

Thanks for the help. Yes, I was trying to simulate the Amer Picon (and I did use Maraschino). The next time I see your Amaro in the store, I'll pick up a bottle. I assume you're the importer? Maybe pick up Amer Picon and import that, too? That said, I can only recall having seen Amaro CioCiaro maybe once in the last few months around my area of Boston, and at the time I had forgotten that it can be used to simulate Amer Picon.

I still would have expected the drink I made to be drinkable and I wonder if the Vya was also at fault. The flavors that I used seemed very compatible (Rye, Vermouth, Maraschino, tiny bit Ramazzotti, teenytiny bit Countreau, Orange bitters). That sure sounds like a winning drink, even if it's not a Brooklyn.

[plattetude]

<snip> If you want something that makes a pretty good substitute at full strength, seek our Amaro CioCiaro. Otherwise, you'll need to make some kind of substitute or use a lesser amount of Torani Amer. <snip>

<snip> The next time I see your Amaro in the store, I'll pick up a bottle. I assume you're the importer? Maybe pick up Amer Picon and import that, too? <snip>

If I may interject, I'm pretty sure Sam meant to type "seek out" and not "seek our". And I agree with him, fwiw -- you certainly should seek it out. Makes for some interesting cocktail variations when subbed for sweet vermouth, too.

Christopher

Edited February 12, 2010 by plattetude (log)

[eje]

To be honest, the Brooklyn is an example of a pretty much extinct cocktail category: dry, aromatic cocktails made with brown spirits.

That is not to say it isn't interesting. But, even when made properly, it's a cocktail yer probably going to have to recalibrate your tastes to appreciate.

[EvergreenDan]

Damn you Erik. Now I really want one.

[EvergreenDan]

Just to follow up on the Brooklyn, I've made it twice since the sink cleaner version, with Dolin Dry and substituting Amaro Melleti for Amer Picon. I don't know how faithful this version is (and I'm not saying it is), but it is a very nice cocktail for the my taste. Fairly dry, especially if you keep the Maraschino to a fairly low dose, and the Melleti is dryer than (say) Ramazzotti I tried before. It's a bit flinty, which is the Russel Rye that I used showing through. I like it, and will continue to hunt for Amaro CioCiaro.

[ScoopKW]

I remember reading a book that mentioned a "Chivas and Grape Tang" cocktail.

Wish I could remember the title.

I also wish I could find a public domain image of grape-flavored Tang to complete this message.

In other Scotch abomination stories: I once worked in a liquor store (for a few months). Two men came in and purchased 750ml of Johnnie Walker blue. Before they left the store, one said to the other, "Oh, shit. I forgot the Diet Coke."

Yes, I asked. Yes, they were going to mix them. Overpriced $200 blended Scotch and diet cola.

[jmfangio]

Sometimes just changing the label of one ingredient can render a beloved cocktail sink-worthy. One of my favorites from the Savoy thread has been the Imperial, which I love with Angostura, and perhaps even more with the Fee's Whiskey Barrel Aged, but I recently mixed up a round over at my Mom's house, where all she has on hand aromatic bitters wise are the regular Fee's. Blech.

Down the sink, and I went back to mixing Martinis.

Edited February 17, 2010 by jmfangio (log)

[EvergreenDan]

1 oz. Laphroaig Qtr Cask

1 oz. Vermouth (Dolin)

1 oz. Carpano Antica

1/2 tsp Creole Shrub

1/2 tsp Maraschino

1 dash Peychaud's

1 dash Regan's

From an idea of BostonApothecary, but my sub'ing of Laphroaig for Macallan and Carpano Antica for homemade chamberyzette was ill advised. Like sucking a hard candy by the campfire. Made a Booker's / Antica Manhattan and life was good again.

I need to try the above again with different substitutions. I wish there were an ingredient you could pour in which did nothing but remove sugar.

[Chris Amirault]

Had this big idea that the tangy, deep flavor of the Dalmatian fig jam we found on superdiscount would be a great foil for bourbon, so tried it out in an Improved (Figgy) Whiskey Cocktail:

2 1/2 oz bourbon

2 t fig jam

1 t Maraschino

1 t gum syrup

1/2 t absinthe

dash Fee's OF bitters

So, so right in my head. So, so, so very wrong in the mouth.

[thirtyoneknots]

Had this big idea that the tangy, deep flavor of the Dalmatian fig jam we found on superdiscount would be a great foil for bourbon, so tried it out in an Improved (Figgy) Whiskey Cocktail:

2 1/2 oz bourbon

2 t fig jam

1 t Maraschino

1 t gum syrup

1/2 t absinthe

dash Fee's OF bitters

So, so right in my head. So, so, so very wrong in the mouth.

That looks very strange, to say the least. Seems like fig stuff might work with brandy though, using it sort of like the marmalade in an Omar Bradley.

If I was being charged to make a citrus-free drink with fig jam thats where I would start. Still, you go first.

[Chris Amirault]

Strange it was.

[plattetude]

Had this big idea that the tangy, deep flavor of the Dalmatian fig jam we found on superdiscount would be a great foil for bourbon, so tried it out in an Improved (Figgy) Whiskey Cocktail:

2 1/2 oz bourbon

2 t fig jam

1 t Maraschino

1 t gum syrup

1/2 t absinthe

dash Fee's OF bitters

So, so right in my head. So, so, so very wrong in the mouth.

That looks very strange, to say the least. Seems like fig stuff might work with brandy though, using it sort of like the marmalade in an Omar Bradley.

If I was being charged to make a citrus-free drink with fig jam thats where I would start. Still, you go first.

I'd maybe ditch the maraschino and absinthe and do a 1/2 oz Cocchi Barolo Chinato with the bourbon and bitters. The spice in the Chinato would seem to me to be a good foil for the fig. If you don't have the Chinato, maybe a 1/2 oz Carpano Antica and a scant tsp pimiento dram....

Of course, now you're essentially in the world of Manhattan variations, but who said there's anything wrong with that?

Christopher

[thirtyoneknots]

...

I'd maybe ditch the maraschino and absinthe

...

Yeah that combo with fig is what looks like the offender, without having tried it.

[EvergreenDan]

Maybe try Bourbon, fig, and a touch each of Allspice Dram (or Nux Alpina Nocino) and Averna? Might be a bit sweet, in which case switching to Rye might help. Sounds good in my head.

[Dangermonkey]

On the subject of Blood and Sand I used Mezcal years ago to swap out the Scotch.

Worked pretty well. Called it an "Authentic Blood and Sand" (posted on my website Spirits Review btw)

[Chris Amirault]

Saw Greg Seider's Kentucky Fix, with a base of coffee-infused bourbon, in this month's Imbibe. Infused some rye with a few beans, smelled nice, and tried a Manhattan with that, Carpano Antica Formula, and Jerry Thomas Decanter Bitters from Bitter Truth. Splendid in my brain; tossed it down the drain. About the worst thing I've had in months. Recovering with Talisker on the rocks. Yikes.

[vice]

Curious because, on paper, everything does seem copacetic. What did you find objectionable?

[Chris Amirault]

Thanks for saying that! I felt the same way.

I dunno what to say except, well, it lacked any harmony or character that wasn't... turpentinian.

[Chris Amirault]

Going for some sort of Improved Bobby Burns Something-or-Other:

2 oz Bruichladdich Yellow Submarine

3/4 oz Amer Picon

dash Jerry Thomas Decanter bitters

dash Grand Marnier

dash Marteau absinthe

Just rotten.

[peterb]

Can I get meta with my contribution and say "Just about everything from the Savoy Cocktail Book?" It's like the thing is some sort of hypersophisticated practical joke.

[Chris Amirault]

2 oz Inner Circle Red

1 oz homemade Swedish punsch

2 dashes Scrappy's grapefruit bitters

2 dashes Fee's 2007 OF bitters

Not horrid but a big glass of blah.