Bread Help : Better Crust and Crumb

[pstock]

I"ve been working on my baquette technique for the last 6 months. They are looking as good as anything available commerically.

But, I remain disappointed that the crust and crumb are not quite what they should be (I was especially reminded of this when comparing to local bakery product during a recent trip to France.)

My crust usually lacks thickness and crunch.

My crumb lacks denseness (density?) and chewiness. It always seems a bit fluffy.

I understand there will always be limitations to home baking.

I am using unglazed terracotta tiles in the oven and do the water toss to try to generate some steam

I also try to give the dough long slow cool rises.

Can anyone offer any suggestions on how I might take my product up a notch or two?

Peter

(PS. the attached photos seem short because they came from a narrow width oven.)

[MikeJ]

The photos aren't showing up for me - anyone else having this problem?

What temperature are you baking at?

[HungryC]

What sort of flour are you using? If you can get your hands on a french-style blend with relatively high ash content, you might get closer to the texture you seek.

[djyee100]

Actually, a thin crisp crust is the ideal. Are you steaming the oven twice? Once as the bread is put in the oven, and then a second time after 5 mins or so. The oven temp is another factor to consider (the higher, the crisper).

I like Danielle Forestier's methods, which I was introduced to several months ago at a class she taught at Ramekins in Sonoma. She's in a video also from the PBS show she did with Julia Child way back when.

http://pbs-juliachild.onstreammedia.com/cg...ct=0&viKeyword=

For less fluffy bread, I suggest using a flour with higher protein content. I use King Arthur bread flour myself, with good results. For chewier bread, you can even go with Giusto's. http://www.worldpantry.com/cgi-bin/ncommer...&cgrfnbr=171236 I've baked with the high performance flour (13% protein) and that bread is chewy. Too chewy for baguettes/batards, IMO...but if that's what you want... I suggest kneading that bread with a KitchenAid.

Also, are you hand-kneading or using a KitchenAid? Maybe only a little more hand-kneading will develop the gluten to give you the chewiness you desire.

[pstock]

sorry about the non-photos. for some reason I remember being able to attach photos to posts here but this time around, I can't seem to find the way to do that.

am baking at about 400-425

aiming at an internal temp of 200 before taking them out.

The photos aren't showing up for me - anyone else having this problem?

What temperature are you baking at?

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[pstock]

hand kneading. though not overly long. I will have to read up on what kneading time contributes to the bread's character.

hmmm, good point. I"ve not been using high gluten flour usually. not easy to find here in Toronto (at least on normal supermarket shelves.)

and have not been double steaming.

thanks for the suggestions.

peter

Actually, a thin crisp crust is the ideal. Are you steaming the oven twice? Once as the bread is put in the oven, and then a second time after 5 mins or so. The oven temp is another factor to consider (the higher, the crisper).

I like Danielle Forestier's methods, which I was introduced to several months ago at a class she taught at Ramekins in Sonoma. She's in a video also from the PBS show she did with Julia Child way back when.

http://pbs-juliachild.onstreammedia.com/cg...ct=0&viKeyword=

For less fluffy bread, I suggest using a flour with higher protein content. I use King Arthur bread flour myself, with good results. For chewier bread, you can even go with Giusto's. http://www.worldpantry.com/cgi-bin/ncommer...&cgrfnbr=171236  I've baked with the high performance flour (13% protein) and that bread is chewy. Too chewy for baguettes/batards, IMO...but if that's what you want... I suggest kneading that bread with a KitchenAid.

Also, are you hand-kneading or using a KitchenAid? Maybe only a little more hand-kneading will develop the gluten to give you the chewiness you desire.

←

[pstock]

one of these links should show bread shots

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/emailPhoto?...335321702985153

http://picasaweb.google.com/pjstock/Bread?...CO3zv8D7l_imUg#

peter

The photos aren't showing up for me - anyone else having this problem?

What temperature are you baking at?

←

[djyee100]

If you're hand-kneading, I suggest that you not use the high-performance flour like Giusto's. That's better suited for kneading with standing mixers. Instead, try kneading a longer time with bread flour like King Arthur or Gold Medal Better for Bread. In the videos I linked to upthread, Forestier (if I remember correctly) pats a properly kneaded ball of dough with her hand to show its texture & bounce. That's what you're looking for.

The videos have helpful hints for shaping and slashing the loaves, too.

Forestier bakes her loaves at 425 degrees. Reinhart in Bread Baker's Apprentice bakes at 450 degrees. So it seems your oven temp could be higher. I aim for an internal temp of 205 degrees when I bake lean artisanal breads. Of course you don't want to burn the bread, but the more you bake it, the drier and lighter it becomes inside.

Another helpful link on making French bread: http://ayearinbread.earthandhearth.com/200...sian-daily.html

Good luck! If you have a chance, let us know how your baking goes.