Larb Laab Larp

[Jason Perlow]

Yeah we have kaffir and fresh lemongrass, but really those are not edible, they are aromatic type things (same with fresh galangal) and are primarily used for soup -- although what we could do next time is cook the lemongrass, galangal and kaffir in with a warm salad dressing to serve over the burgers or balls and remove them afterwards. They can be really tough. So we opted for the dried stuff, which still works really well. The lime zest also gives you a similar flavor to the kaffir lime leaves.

[tommy]

Yeah we have kaffir and fresh lemongrass, but really those are not edible, they are aromatic type things (same with fresh galangal). They can be really tough. So we opted for the dried stuff, which still works really well. The lime zest also gives you a similar flavor to the kaffir lime leaves.

lemon zest is no substitute for kaffir. kaffir is edible. however, it comes out the same way it went in. *but*, chopped up, it's fine. i use fresh lemongrass on pork and beef all of the time. i put it in a spice grinder and it rips it to shreds. no problems.

it's clear that we need a larburger-off.

Edited July 10, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Schielke]

I made larburgers last night too. Fan-tastic!

[Schielke]

More Larburgers last night and some left over larbpatties for lunch today. I made a little sauce for it with sour cream, lime, chili sauce, and tamarind.

Ben

[tommy]

making larb right now. just thought i'd report this little tidbit.

serving it in endive leaves for the first time, a la blondie/pacific northwest.

[linecook4life]

Having worked for a thai family for ~10 years, I have had more than my lion's share of larb-gai and larb-moo. I have never had larb with lemongrass or kaffir lime leaves in it, although mint is often added.

An interesting note on the larb "balls"- I have eaten fried balls (actually more elongate) that consisted of cooked rice, red curry paste, and sometimes ground pork. These "faux" sausages are what I have heard referred to as nam tod. These balls can be eaten whole, accompanied with ginger slivers, thai chili, and roasted peanuts or cashews, or they are broken into pieces and prepared in a salad called nam sod (shallot, peanut, lime juice, fish sauce, etc..).

I believe that larb and nam sod style salads originated in the northeastern region of Thailand and are considered to be "country-style" dishes. Another fabulous northern country-style Thai dish to be considered is nam prik ong- spicey pork and tomato dip. It is definitley worth trying.

[Nathan P.]

Having just discovered eGullet and in the middle of a bit of experimenting with thai cooking, I had to jump on to this lahb thread. I made my inaugral larb with ground turkey. (I was hoping my butcher would have ground lamb but was unlucky. I don't know how lamb would work in the larb but saying lamb larb out loud is pretty great!) I sauteed the turkey with a bit of peanut oil and added a bit of thai roasted chile in oil for a bit of background heat. I then dressed with fish sauce/lime/sugar, added shallot, ground (coffe grinder) toasted thai jasmine rice, mint, and a large quantity of dried thai chiles. I toasted the chiles briefly and chopped them by hand into chile flakes. I served my larb over the leafy ends of a napa cabbage. It was quite tasty and had a fair amount of heat. My dressing leaned towards lime over fish sauce which seems to be the flavor I see most often in restaurants.

I do have a question for you larb fanatics that does not seem to have been discussed so far in this thread- What is the proper larb serving tmpature??? Based on some of the postings here it sounds like some people are serving their larb as a hot salad? I have always seen this served at room temp and was curious to know if I just missed people cooling the dish or if there are hotter variations. I generally find room temperature to be cold for food so based on the fact that thailand looked to be about 20 degrees warmer than my dining room, I gently rewarmed my salad to take the chill off.

Nathan

[tommy]

welcome to egullet, nathan! thanks for sharing your larb story.

as far as temperature, i usually serve it just a bit warmer than room temperature. not much warmer though.

[torakris]

welcome to egullet, nathan!  thanks for sharing your larb story.

as far as temperature, i usually serve it just a bit warmer than room temperature.  not much warmer though.

ditto everything he said!

[gus_tatory]

the recipe sounds amazing--just read it. much like a dumpling filling as someone mentioned. i have a question though.

what function is the ground rice performing in that recipe--is it both a flavouring and binding agent?

thanks!

edited: for clarity.

Edited July 17, 2003 by gus_tatory (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

Are you talking about the larb balls? If so, I have no idea what the function of the toasted rice powder is. I suppose it provides a little bit of filling/binding plus a toasty flavor. But it could probably be left out without detriment. Maybe toss in a handful of panko breadcrumbs instead?

[snowangel]

the recipe sounds amazing--just read it. much like a dumpling filling as someone mentioned. i have a question though.

what function is the ground rice performing in that recipe--is it both a flavouring and binding agent?

thanks!

edited: for clarity.

I think so, plus some texture. I never buy the toasted ground rice -- I always make my own. Toast raw sticky rice and then grind in spice grinder. I like mine to have a little more texture (or varied texture) than the purchased stuff has.

I don't think panko would work, Rachel; wouldn't it absorb too much and just become like soggy crumbs?

In Thailand, it is usually served room temp, but given that room temp can be really high...

[tommy]

what function is the ground rice performing in that recipe--is it both a flavouring and binding agent?

thanks!

gus, if you're talking about larb in the regular salad sense, ground rice adds texture. a wonderful texture indeed.

[hjshorter]

I think so, plus some texture.  I never buy the toasted ground rice -- I always make my own. Toast raw sticky rice and then grind in spice grinder.  I like mine to have a little more texture (or varied texture) than the purchased stuff has.

Susan, do you toast in the oven or on top of the stove? I have bought toasted rice but wasn't impressed with the quality.

[snowangel]

I think so, plus some texture.  I never buy the toasted ground rice -- I always make my own. Toast raw sticky rice and then grind in spice grinder.  I like mine to have a little more texture (or varied texture) than the purchased stuff has.

Susan, do you toast in the oven or on top of the stove? I have bought toasted rice but wasn't impressed with the quality.

On top of the stove in a heavy skillet (in my case, a 60 year old enamel cast-iron pan). Much better than store bought. I toast up quite a bit at a time and store in a jar with lid.

[Suzi Edwards]

my first larb post!

i made larb tonight after being inspired by your postings. i'm currently cooking my way through a wonderful book called "Vatch's South-East Asian Salads" by a chef called Vatcharin Bhumichir so i picked out the larb stuff.

i made two laotian receipes "laap moo" (i love the fact that what i think must be the laotian word for "pork" is "moo") which is pork laap and yam kai dow which is a spicy fried egg salad with a dressing that is slightly less sweet than laap dressing and without ginger/galangal.

they were both great. the egg salad dressing emulsified slightly with the runny egg yolks (the receipe said to cook until hard but i was having none of that) my laap itself (made with home ground jasmine rice toasted to perfection (in case he's reading) by my partner) will have more sauce next time as it was a little dry. YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH SAUCE.

i would strongly recommend you all order this book as it rocks :-) he has a couple of restaurants in london that do his style of food (he says the salad is the bedrock of se asian food, not the curries that are the mainstay of restaurants here in the uk) but it is the perfect way to wind down after a hard day and a really great way to create sharing food.

[Shiewie]

The idea of larb burgers is catching on! See Mark Bittman's article on Vietburgers and recipe for Lemon Grass Patties in the NY Times today.

[MatthewB]

Yeah we have kaffir and fresh lemongrass, but really those are not edible, they are aromatic type things (same with fresh galangal) and are primarily used for soup . . .

Fresh lemongrass isn't edible?

[Jason Perlow]

Actually, it is, but it has to be thoroughly food processed. We used it in the version we served at the Potluck in NYC.

Usually fresh lemongrass is an aromatic that is used in soups and curries, it imparts essential oils when cooked but generally it isn't eaten. Its very tough and fibrous. Same with galangal.

[MatthewB]

Actually, it is, but it has to be thoroughly food processed. We used it in the version we served at the Potluck in NYC.

Usually fresh lemongrass is an aromatic that is used in soups and curries, it imparts essential oils when cooked but generally it isn't eaten. Its very tough and fibrous. Same with galangal.

Don't you peel it?

[MatthewB]

FWIW, Bittman is dead-on with this from his most recent column, mentioned above:

"That also goes for the woody texture [of fresh lemongrass], which can be quite unpleasant unless handled correctly. Trim each stalk as you would a scallion, and remove the tough outer layers until you reach the relatively tender inner core (which is also relatively small, compared with what you started out with)."

[Jason Perlow]

Actually, it is, but it has to be thoroughly food processed. We used it in the version we served at the Potluck in NYC.

Usually fresh lemongrass is an aromatic that is used in soups and curries, it imparts essential oils when cooked but generally it isn't eaten. Its very tough and fibrous. Same with galangal.

Don't you peel it?

The dried out stuff on the outside, yeah. We generally don't use the bottom inch or so of the stalk and most of the flimsy stuff at the top.

Your mileage may vary, though.

Bittman is suggesting you discard most of the stuff which has all the aromatic oils in it. I think that's kind of wasteful.

[mrbigjas]

Have I mentioned that a couple weeks ago I made larb solely as a result of happening upon this thread and reading the entire 9 pages or so of it?

I made it with ground pork. I toasted my own rice. I served it with sticky rice (which I finished off a couple days later with kimchi as a hangover remedy, but that's another story entirely).

It was really good.

I didn't follow the recipe exactly, though, re: proportions of lime juice, stock, and fish sauce, because I felt like I know what my chicken stock tastes like, and the fish sauce I have, and whatnot. The verdict: next time I might up the lime juice and reduce the fish sauce a little.

Man was it good though. I need some more, and soon. Luckily I have this chicken breast just sitting here waiting to be larbed... (was there any ruling on the usage of larb as a verb?)

[pim]

FWIW, Bittman is dead-on with this from his most recent column, mentioned above:

"That also goes for the woody texture [of fresh lemongrass], which can be quite unpleasant unless handled correctly. Trim each stalk as you would a scallion, and remove the tough outer layers until you reach the relatively tender inner core (which is also relatively small, compared with what you started out with)."

Okay, guys. This whole discussion about lemongrass continues to amaze me. There is *no* lemongrass in laab. I, and a few others, said so many many posts ago.

I abandoned the laab discussion when it veered into laab burger. The Thai soul in me was too stunned to muster up a reply. The american urge to put anything one could in between a bun will never seize to amaze me.

Again, there is no lemongrass in laab. Nor is there Kaffir lime, ni leaves, ni rind. There are other types of salad in Thai cuisine that has lemongrass in them. Plaa, and Yum came to mine. Not Laab.

Repeat after me, NO LEMONGRASS IN LAAB, again, NO LEMONGRASS IN LAAB, com'on it's not hard. again.....

I think I'm going to do a tutorial on Thai salads in Mamster and my Thai class at eGCI to get you folks all straighten up!

Edited July 27, 2003 by pim (log)

[Jason Perlow]

No, there's no lemongrass in Larb. But there's lemongrass in our Larb Balls. And in Nam Sod, which is basically larb with lemongrass and crushed peanuts. And our larb balls are really derived from Vietnamese meatball appetizers anyway.