If It Grows Together, It Goes Together

[Peter the eater]

I've heard this idea before: what grows together goes together.

This is a fundamental concept in Sally Schneider's The Improvisational Cook. She calls it the "first step in understanding flavor". For anyone trying to come up with something new, start by combining ingredients that grow together in the same region and season. It's a good book, a Beard Nominee in 2006, and I'm glad my library has a copy. I'd probably feel more critical if I'd paid the $45 cover price.

I understand why we perceive traditional flavor combinations as good -- it's the way it's always been -- generations of trial and error. Strawberry and rhubarb, tomato and eggplant, apples and winter squash, etc. It's practical to use ingredients together as they become available together, but does that necessarily mean they taste good together?

[CaliPoutine]

I just heard Anna Olsen say that on" Fresh"

eta: PB and Chocolate don't grow together, but they sure do taste good together!!

Edited October 20, 2008 by CaliPoutine (log)

[Peter the eater]

I just heard Anna Olsen say that on" Fresh"

eta: PB and Chocolate don't grow together, but they sure do taste good together!!

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I like Anna Olsen, and Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.

Here's my problem: this idea, though it sounds nice, just isn't true most of the time.

[lala]

I was under the impression that this saying referred to wine and food, not food and food.

Peter, in what way (in your experience) does this not hold true for food?

[Peter the eater]

I was under the impression that this saying referred to wine and food, not food and food.

Peter, in what way (in your experience) does this not hold true for food?

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Many great contemporary restaurants put together ingredients that are from all over the map, and get great results. MG and TE chefs experiment and manipulate to rave reviews. It just makes me wonder what really makes a flavor combo work.

Just to be clear, Sally Schneider's The Improvisational Cook offers this idea as a starting point for home chefs who want to get to a new creative level, and in her context it makes sense to me. Personally, I place a buy local and buy in season at the top of my list of priorities. That doesn't mean they will make the best flavor combos, IMO.

[docsconz]

Assume for a moment the theory is true. That does not necessarily mean that things grown apart do not make for great flavor combos. The question is is the theory itself actually true even if it is often true?

[gfweb]

What twaddle! Cockeyed philosophy applied to cooking. Folk medicine is full of this kind of pseudowisdom.

[barolo]

Assume for a moment the theory is true. That does not necessarily mean that things grown apart do not make for great flavor combos.

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Exactly. It seems like such a simplistic statement that I question its value except to the most novice cook. Sally Schneider's book struck me as being pretty simplistic - not wrong, just presenting very simple ideas.

[Peter the eater]

What twaddle!  Cockeyed philosophy applied to cooking. Folk medicine is full of this kind of pseudowisdom.

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So you're a no then?

Sometimes folk medicine will pass Randomized Double-Blind Studies and actually work. Making food tasty is different, one person's yummy is another person gag reflex.

I want a respected and licensed flavorist to explain why this topic title could be true. If there is such a person, I may have made it up.

[slkinsey]

Traditionally, it seems quite clear why peoples in various parts of the world would combine foods that grow in that locale and are harvested at around the same time. What else are they going to do? Filter that through however many centuries of selective breeding and culinary invention, and you end up with some pretty good-tasting combinations.

Of course, most foods can go with most other foods if you put your mind to the task. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of counterexamples. Does butternut squash go well with apples? Sure. But I wouldn't say it's a great match with cabbage or cauliflower, both cold-weather crops. Indeed, I'd think that it does better with tomatoes, a warm-weather crop.

I don't see why there would be any answer more complicated than this.

[mjc]

As lala suggests this is often said in referring to food and wine. On Molto Mario, he always says this (at least every show), but always in reference to wine.

[Peter the eater]

As lala suggests this is often said in referring to food and wine.  On Molto Mario, he always says this (at least every show), but always in reference to wine.

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Mario seems to know what he's talking about, and he's surely Sally's friend given the reciprocal praise found in the The Improvisational Cook. That's all good, I'm just looking for an explanation as to why.

Does a certain microclimate and soil quality produce compatible plants?

Have wine makers adjusted their product to compliment the local produce?

Or is it just an established tradition, widely seen as true?

[gfweb]

What twaddle!  Cockeyed philosophy applied to cooking. Folk medicine is full of this kind of pseudowisdom.

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So you're a no then?

Sometimes folk medicine will pass Randomized Double-Blind Studies and actually work. Making food tasty is different, one person's yummy is another person gag reflex.

I want a respected and licensed flavorist to explain why this topic title could be true. If there is such a person, I may have made it up.

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Eh. Not often will folk medicine stand the test of rigorous study. Even when it does reach significance it is still not typically a big benefit.

But anyway, I don't think that even a flavorist's explanation, pro or con, would be worth diddly until it is tested. All of us here could make up some high-sounding jive about the terroir causing foods to compliment one another better than food from unlike soils etc.

I'd like to see a blind testing of similarly prepared and grown cauliflower (or whatever) from different soils to see if taste differences could even be detected. If there was a difference one might then try pairing the veg with local and foreign meats etc.

[djyee100]

I think the principle has merit. Sally Schneider is trying to help beginning cooks improvise from the wildly diverse array in most American supermarkets--foods from a range of cuisines and locales.

"What grows together goes together." I'll interpret this to mean that foods originally from a certain region and growing in the same season go together. This idea would introduce people to many classic flavor combinations. Offhand, I can't think of any flavor combination that fits this principle that doesn't taste good. Can you?

SS is not saying that foods that do not grow together do not go together. That's patently absurd. We encounter dishes everyday that are a delicious mix & match of cuisines & geography.

I agree with slkinsey, most combinations of foods can taste good if you put your mind to it. But beginning (or even not so beginning) cooks can go astray when they start to improvise around ingredients. The "grow together, go together" principle narrows the choices in a helpful way.

[slkinsey]

As lala suggests this is often said in referring to food and wine.  On Molto Mario, he always says this (at least every show), but always in reference to wine.

This goes back to my earlier point: Local foods and culinary traditions evolved with local grapes and winemaking traditions because there was nothing else the locals could use. Add a thousand years or so, and you end up with some good combinations. Part of the point Mario was making is that, if you go to Firenze and they have a certain tradition of pairing wine with food, the chances are that it's going to be pretty good. Are there other possibly good, or even better combinations? Of course. The so-called "Super Tuscan" wines were unknown 100 years ago (it's also likely that the Chianti of 100 years ago would be largely unrecognizable to us, but that's neither here nor there). The other part of the point Mario was making is that, if you want your meal to taste as "Tuscan" as possible, then you should use Tuscan ingredients. This includes the wine, olive oil, etc. It's not going to taste worse if you use an olive oil from Sicily and drink a California wine. It just won't taste as close to the way it tastes in Firenze.

[Magictofu]

In my garden, ground cherries grow next to carrots, onions, dill and asparagus. I don't think they go so well together.

[Peter the eater]

In my garden, ground cherries grow next to carrots, onions, dill and asparagus. I don't think they go so well together.

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Don't give up -- where there's a will there's almost always a way.

I think the the more interesting question is "how can I make these items work together". I know a lobster fisherman who grows peanuts and mint -- now to me that's a challenge.