Choosing chocolate

[Darienne]

So I am looking in the Qzina catalogue at the 811 dark Callebaut. There's an

*811 Dark Chocolate Unwrapped Slab 54%, block

*811 Semi Sweet Chcolate 54%, discs

*811 NV Semi Sweet Chocolate 54%, block

*C811NV Semi Sweet 52%, discs

*D811NV Semi Sweet, 52%, block

*D811NV Unwrapped Semi Sweet 52%, block

That seems to be it for 811s which are not callets. At least I now know what callets are, and pistoles, and feves...

Can you tell me what the 'NV' means? C is all-purpose viscosity. What is D? Super thick?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

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NV refers to natural vanilla. The 811 block and discs are the same chocolate. The C811 is thicker (less viscous) than the 811, the D even thicker. Due to less cocoa butter.

I prefer the 815 to the 811 - less sweet. A nice basic chocolate that doesn't interfere too much with the flavours in your centers.

Click here to link to callebaut dark chocolates

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[Darienne]

Well I guess I need to start blending. I also like the Ivoire from Valrhona. Sometimes I have to even do two coating in the moulds as it is so thin! Darienne, sometimes itis good to have blocks- I like using bigger chunks for tempering by the seeding method as it is easy to fish out at the end.

I think also that each chocolatier needs to be individual- what is unique to him? So chocolate choice is important. Developing a guideline to go by lessens the confusion- like fruity fillings=bland coating etc. And of course, rules can be broken... I guess I need to develop my own guideline, and being rather new one needs confidence. I suppose it comes with time. In recipes in books, sometimes the author instructs which kind of chocolate to use but it is rare and left unexplained.

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Hi Lior,

I do use chunks also. Fishing a big chunk out is so much simpler for me than diddling about with little bits. Thanks.

[Darienne]

Today I dipped some caramels (Kerry's recipe...delicious) into 70% chocolate Callebaut as a gift for a friend. She actually wanted 85% chocolate, but I have no idea of where to get it.

As soon as I started to work with the chocolate I realized that it was of a very low viscosity...I got it everywhere...and the coating on the caramels is not thick enough. I'll have to redip them. Do I understand that if you are using 70% chocolate you are likely to have to redip your "dipper"?

I see that there are different viscosities of chocolate, but most of the 70% ones have very low viscosities. Very confusing, the word 'viscosity'. Low viscosity means thin. I see that Callebaut uses the word 'liquidity'...not confusing.

Is 70% chocolate necessarily of high liquidity? Delicious, but thin?

Just what do you normally use the various liquidities for? Low for coating? And high for molding?

Sorry, it's all quite confusing when one is starting out.

[Kerry Beal]

Today I dipped some caramels (Kerry's recipe...delicious) into 70% chocolate Callebaut as a gift for a friend.  She actually wanted 85% chocolate, but I have no idea of where to get it.

As soon as I started to work with the chocolate I realized that it was of a very low viscosity...I got it everywhere...and the coating on the caramels is not thick enough.  I'll have to redip them.  Do I understand that if you are using 70% chocolate you are likely to have to redip your "dipper"?

I see that there are different viscosities of chocolate, but most of the 70% ones have very low viscosities.  Very confusing, the word 'viscosity'.  Low viscosity means thin.  I see that Callebaut uses the word 'liquidity'...not confusing. 

Is 70% chocolate necessarily of high liquidity?  Delicious, but thin?

Just what do you normally use the various liquidities for?  Low for coating?  And high for molding? 

Sorry, it's all quite confusing when one is starting out.

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70% could be viscous or thin, just depends on the amount of cocoa butter it contains. The 70% includes all the cocoa parts - be that cocoa mass or cocoa butter, the 30% is made up of all the remainder - which could include sugar, milk solids.

On the front of the callebaut bag you'll see little drops. One little drop means very viscous (thick) chocolate suitable for truffle centres and desserts and piping, 5 drops for dipping only. 3 drops is useful for most purposes.

[Darienne]

70% could be viscous or thin, just depends on the amount of cocoa butter it contains.  The 70% includes all the cocoa parts - be that cocoa mass or cocoa butter, the 30% is made up of all the remainder - which could include sugar, milk solids. 

On the front of the callebaut bag you'll see little drops.  One little drop means very viscous (thick) chocolate suitable for truffle centres and desserts and piping, 5 drops for dipping only.  3 drops is useful for most purposes.

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I knew about the little drops after our discussions on this thread back a week or so. But when I asked at the store where I bought the Callebaut what viscosity it was they couldn't tell me. Callebaut lists two liquidities in their dark chocolate section, one with 5 drops and one with 3. I have to assume my chocolate was the 5 drop variety.

None of the milk chocolates have more than 4 drops and most of them have fewer. Is milk chocolate generally more viscous?

Then I looked on the Bakers C&C website from which I will order E. Guittard while in Utah. They don't mention anything about various viscosities. I'll phone them on Monday and see if they can tell me over the phone. They list only one high percentage dark 63%, so perhaps that will just be it. They don't carry 70% chocolate...there is almost no call for it and if you want some, you have to buy an entire case.

You mention that 5 drop variety is only for dipping, and yet today my dipped caramels have too thin a coating. Is this the chocolate or me?

Thanks for all the answers.

[Kerry Beal]

70% could be viscous or thin, just depends on the amount of cocoa butter it contains.  The 70% includes all the cocoa parts - be that cocoa mass or cocoa butter, the 30% is made up of all the remainder - which could include sugar, milk solids. 

On the front of the callebaut bag you'll see little drops.  One little drop means very viscous (thick) chocolate suitable for truffle centres and desserts and piping, 5 drops for dipping only.  3 drops is useful for most purposes.

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I knew about the little drops after our discussions on this thread back a week or so. But when I asked at the store where I bought the Callebaut what viscosity it was they couldn't tell me. Callebaut lists two liquidities in their dark chocolate section, one with 5 drops and one with 3. I have to assume my chocolate was the 5 drop variety.

None of the milk chocolates have more than 4 drops and most of them have fewer. Is milk chocolate generally more viscous?

Then I looked on the Bakers C&C website from which I will order E. Guittard while in Utah. They don't mention anything about various viscosities. I'll phone them on Monday and see if they can tell me over the phone. They list only one high percentage dark 63%, so perhaps that will just be it. They don't carry 70% chocolate...there is almost no call for it and if you want some, you have to buy an entire case.

You mention that 5 drop variety is only for dipping, and yet today my dipped caramels have too thin a coating. Is this the chocolate or me?

Thanks for all the answers.

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I think the 5 drop is for really thin enrobing where you want to have just a thinnest layer of chocolate on your product.

Milk chocolates are indeed more viscous than dark chocolate.

[Kerry Beal]

Click here for various applications of chocolate of different viscosities.

[alanamoana]

Callebaut also has the same information on their website specific to their chocolate.

E. Guittard chocolates don't have that information on their products, but I've used their stuff for years and find it is very versatile when it comes to baking, confectionery, etc. Works well for dipping and molding. Of course, these things might vary depending on your environment and methods, but in any case you can always adjust by adding cocoa butter to your chocolate to thin it down if it is too viscous. Don't know what to do if it is too thin...maybe wait until it is more crystallized/cool to work with?

[Darienne]

Thanks for the help, all.

Kerry, that Belcolade section was helpful and I saved it for further reference, although I think I am starting to get the picture. Who knew?

The problem with what I was doing, coating caramel, is that the caramel is very thick and solid in its presentation and needs a thicker coating than say a truffle. Or it needs a thicker coating in chocolate in my perception of how it should be and taste.

I'll have my DH try one this morning and get his opinion on the coating...and then probably recoat the caramels. (Of course, he'll say that they should be rolled in nuts also. But then they are not for him. )

Later: Report on caramel taste test. DH ate half a caramel and thought they were delicious but could benefit from a re-coating. I ate one of the little extra side bits that I cut off to square the slab. It was much thinner than a regular caramel and coated in the same way. Thus the proportion of chocolate to caramel is greater.

I think, while it all tastes delicious, the caramel overwhelms the chocolate and can't see any real point to dipping caramels into chocolate. ...but it was what my friend ordered.

Even later while out walking: Of course, she probably meant a soft caramel filling and I used a denser, chewier filling. I see Greweling has a couple of softer caramel fillings I could try.

Also, is there a way to change the recipe that Kerry gave me to make it softer? More cream? Just random thoughts as I learn and learn and learn...

Last thought: I'll go back and read that caramel thread on eG.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Darienne (log)

[Desiderio]

Truffle Guy, thanks for sharing your choices.

Typically, I use a blend of 66% Caraibe and the Valrhona 61% which has a much more basic taste. I think the flavor is very good and the consistency is much better than other chocolates I've used in the past. It also is much more consistent (for me and my conditions) when it comes to tempering and getting a good shine.

I must try this blend, I have tried blending Valrhona couvertures in the past with appalling results, however Caraibe and Extra bitter sounds a winner. Which percentages do you use, 50/50?

I absolutely agree, Valrhona's couvertures are the most consistent of all the couvertures I have tried, and produce the most stable shine. (Apologies to the US manufactures - I have not tried most of your couvertures.) It's just I have yet to get the right balance in a Valrhona couverture for my ganache formulations, which ironically are mostly based on Valrhona chocolate.

For white, I just have not found anything that comes close to the Valrhona white in flavor and workability (I wish I could as it isn't cheap). It also is a very fluid chocolate and I never have problems with it when doing molded pieces.

I love El Rey's white chocolate, Icoa. I believe that its superior taste is partly due to their use of non-deodorised cocoa butter. I have only enrobed with it once at a demonstration (nipples of venus for a hen party), so cannot really vouch for its performance as an enrobing couverture. However it is flavour is really superb (for a white chocolate). And its much cheaper than Ivoire!

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Lior, Amedei 9 is 75% cocoa.

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Some years ago I created a cinnamon ganache using Valrhona Caraibe (blend of Trinitario from the Caribbean Islands, 66% cocoa). My audience found it one of the weakest in my collection and it soon disappeared. When Valrhona launched Tainori (blend of Trinitario from the Dominican Republic, 64% cocoa) I made a cinnamon ganache with it. The ganache is incredibly good, with strong overtones of banana.

These two chocolates are very similar: same manufacture; similar percentage of sugar; same cacao variety; and both from the Caribbean. Yet the subtle difference in the flavour of the two chocolates leads to very different flavour pairings. Tainori and cinnamon; Caraibe and Lombardy coffee.

For me its all about finding infusions/inclusions that complement the chocolate. At least it is now, twenty-five years ago I produced 25g alcohol-laced truffles using Callibaut. As Lior said above, and many have echoed, the audience for "Belgium truffles" remains large. But the market direction is definitely towards greater knowledge of chocolate and cacaos, and towards an appetite for the unusual ...

... Oh, and the healthy.

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I love El Rey's white chocolate, Icoa. I believe that its superior taste is partly due to their use of non-deodorised cocoa butter. I have only enrobed with it once at a demonstration (nipples of venus for a hen party), so cannot really vouch for its performance as an enrobing couverture. However it is flavour is really superb (for a white chocolate). And its much cheaper than Ivoire!

I do love El rey Icoa as well , I think is the best tasting white chocolate I have ever tasted, on the ther hand I found that its taste doesnt combine well with some of my white fillings, the taste is overpowering. I had to switch many time to find a good balance white for ganaches. I guess I havent find one yet :-P.

[Desiderio]

Callebaut also has the same information on their website specific to their chocolate.

E. Guittard chocolates don't have that information on their products, but I've used their stuff for years and find it is very versatile when it comes to baking, confectionery, etc.  Works well for dipping and molding.  Of course, these things might vary depending on your environment and methods, but in any case you can always adjust by adding cocoa butter to your chocolate to thin it down if it is too viscous.  Don't know what to do if it is too thin...maybe wait until it is more crystallized/cool to work with?

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I find EGuittard to be very versatile as well, I never had problems working with their line of chocolate.

[Desiderio]

Thanks for the help, all.

Kerry, that Belcolade section was helpful and I saved it for further reference, although I think I am starting to get the picture.  Who knew? 

The problem with what I was doing, coating caramel, is that the caramel is very thick and solid in its presentation and needs a thicker coating than say a truffle.  Or it needs a thicker coating in chocolate in my perception of how it should be and taste. 

I'll have my DH try one this morning and get his opinion on the coating...and then probably recoat the caramels.  (Of course, he'll say that they should be rolled in nuts also.  But then they are not for him.  )

Later:  Report on caramel taste test.  DH ate half a caramel and thought they were delicious but could benefit from a re-coating.  I ate one of the little extra side bits that I cut off to square the slab.  It was much thinner than a regular caramel and coated in the same way.  Thus the proportion of chocolate to caramel is greater. 

I think, while it all tastes delicious, the caramel overwhelms the chocolate and can't see any real point to dipping caramels into chocolate.  ...but it was what my friend ordered.

Even later while out walking:  Of course, she probably meant a soft caramel filling and I used a denser, chewier filling.  I see Greweling has a couple of softer caramel fillings I could try. 

Also, is there a way to change the recipe that Kerry gave me to make it softer?  More cream?  Just random thoughts as I learn and learn and learn...

Last thought: I'll go back and read that caramel thread on eG.

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One reason to coat the caramels s also to preserve them for longer time. I think you will find that different chocolates will give you different result for the caramel as well. I use a 64% for all my coating, that as a perfect viscosity and is very versatile chocolate.

If you want a softer caramel you can try to cook at lower temperature ( final temperature I mean ) couple of degree maybe, just be aware that the softer the harder to work with. The I will suggest coat the slab of caramel with chocolate ( thin layer ) then cut the squares and dip them.

I wish I could experiement with different type of chocolate, but money for now are an issue so I am hoping in the future to have more business that will allow me to try a wide selection of chocolate for the different applications. By the way expecially in the beginning, working with one or max two dark chocolate, that you find versatile and easy to work with, isnt bad.

[Darienne]

One reason to coat the caramels s also to preserve them for longer time. I think you will find that different chocolates will give you different result for the caramel as well. I use  a 64% for all my coating, that as a perfect viscosity and is very versatile chocolate.

If you want a softer caramel you can try to cook at lower temperature ( final temperature I mean ) couple of degree maybe, just be aware that the softer the harder to work with. The I will suggest coat the slab of caramel with chocolate ( thin layer ) then cut the squares and dip them.

I wish I could experiement with different type of chocolate, but money for now are an issue so I am hoping in the future to have more business that will allow me to try a wide selection of chocolate for the different applications. By the way expecially in the beginning, working with one or max two dark chocolate, that you find versatile and easy to work with, isnt bad.

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Thanks Desiderio for all the information. I would not have used the 70%, but my friend wanted 85% which I could not get. Also, at the time I had no choice in 70%...we live in a small city and I was lucky to get any 70% at all. Our pretzel rods and turtles were done in 60%, medium viscosity, and they worked out very well.

Also last week I scarcely knew that viscosity was an issue at all. I am the newbie amongst newbies...but learning quickly I hope. All least all the errors are still edible and delicious.

BTW, I never did recoat the caramels. I completely botched the tempering process and both I and the store had no more 70% couverture left.

Soon I'll be in Utah, using E. Guittard for the first time, thanks to Ruth Kendrick. The best news is that we are going to meet!

Edited September 23, 2008 by Darienne (log)

[Kerry Beal]

I prefer my chewy caramels dipped in milk chocolate. For some reason the textures of the two seem more 'right' than caramel with dark chocolate.

[Darienne]

I prefer my chewy caramels dipped in milk chocolate.  For some reason the textures of the two seem more 'right' than caramel with dark chocolate.

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I'm not a big fan of milk chocolate, but sometimes it does work extremely well. We'll go for it next time. The 60% is much sweeter than the 70% and this must be why it 'goes' better.

I'm stopping at a little speciality shop in Ontario on the way to Utah and picking up some more pretzel rods to play with...just in case I can't find them where we're going...and the neat little cellophane wrappers too.

[Desiderio]

I know what you mean, maybe the creaminess of the milk marry much better with the creamy chewiness of the caramel. The sea salt I make are always in dark, because thats what my affecionados prefer.

[tammylc]

Thanks Desiderio for all the information.  I would not have used the 70%, but my friend wanted 85% which I could not get.  Also, at the time I had no choice in 70%...we live in a small city and I was lucky to get any 70% at all.  Our pretzel rods and turtles were done in 60%, medium viscosity, and they worked out very well. 

Also last week I scarcely knew that viscosity was an issue at all.  I am the newbie amongst newbies...but learning quickly I hope.  All least all the errors are still edible and delicious.

BTW, I never did recoat the caramels.  I completely botched the tempering process  and both I and the store had no more 70% couverture left.

Soon I'll be in Utah, using E. Guittard for the first time, thanks to Ruth Kendrick.  The best news is that we are going to meet! 

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For future reference, Darienne, you could have used some of your 60% chocolate as seed to retemper the 70%. And you can also temper without any seed at all, by bringing your chocolate down to the bottom of the tempering curve (82?) and then carefully heating it back up to working temperature.

Have fun with Ruth!

Edited September 24, 2008 by tammylc (log)

[tammylc]

I know what you mean, maybe the creaminess of the milk marry much better with the creamy chewiness of the caramel. The sea salt I make are always in dark, because thats what my affecionados prefer.

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I do my sea salt caramels in dark as well. The contrast is perfect.

When I've tried coating caramels in milk I find that the chocolate flavor pretty much disappears. Maybe my milk chocolate (Cluizel) just has a lot of caramely flavors...