Dinner in Trotter's Kitchen

[Jinmyo]

At this juncture I have to step in and say that Charlie Trotter is indeed very generous. He sent our kitchen library a complete signed set of his hardcover books (including Cooking With Patrick Clark). I have an open invitation to a tour and a meal and I've never seen the man. Most likely I never will. But I can taste his food from what I see and read and know I would be very ready to let the kitchen set my meal for me, whether he was there or out fund-raising for charity somewhere else.

[robert brown]

Bux, it is Johnny-come-lately-ism that is a bigger factor than whether a chef went to school in Lausanne, Lyon or Hyde Park. Bras and Veyrat, maybe even Loiseau, may have started out self-taught, but they started being exposed and to learn when they were 14 years old. Many great chefs grew up in kitchens and then went out to work in the kitchens of those who were their mentors. The only famous French chef I know who decided at a late age to become a chef is Michel Trama. In America we don't have chefs with that kind of background, although one exception, apparently is David Bouley who learned at his grandmother's side as an adolescent. This is why French born and trained chefs have such a grip on highly-regarded American restaurants. I have never been to Trotter's or the French Laundry, though, for what it is worth, I ate Keller's food in the 1980s a few times at Rakal, and I am soon to dine at the French Laundry. Thus, it will be interesting to see how an American thoroughbred, Johnny-come-lately tickles my palate. As for Trotter, I am waiting for the first person who has dined extensively in France to say he is as great as his fans say he is.

[Michael Laiskonis]

cabrales posted on Oct 1 2002, 11:39 PM

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am going out of town this weekend (hopefully; Clio)...

Will this be your first visit as well? Ken is doing some amazing things, and has provided two very memorable meals for me. But then perhaps my opinion is suspect!

[Bux]

Bux, it is Johnny-come-lately-ism that is a bigger factor than whether a chef went to school in Lausanne, Lyon or Hyde Park. Bras and Veyrat, maybe even Loiseau, may have started out self-taught, but they started being exposed and to learn when they were 14 years old. Many great chefs grew up in kitchens and then went out to work in the kitchens of those who were their mentors. The only famous French chef  I know who decided at a late age to become a chef is Michel Trama. In America we don't have chefs with that kind of background, although one exception, apparently is David Bouley who learned at his grandmother's side as an adolescent. This is why French born and trained chefs have such a grip on highly-regarded American restaurants. I have never been to Trotter's or the French Laundry, though, for what it is worth, I ate Keller's food in the 1980s a few times at Rakal, and I am soon to dine at the French Laundry. Thus, it will be interesting to see how an American thoroughbred, Johnny-come-lately tickles my palate. As for Trotter, I am waiting for the first person who has dined extensively in France to say he is as great as his fans say he is.

It's rough to compare an American restaurant to one in France, but I thought my one meal at CT was pretty much a world class meal. I can't say I was surprised as I heard raves from a French chef who thought it was as good as any meal he had in NY. Trotter's and The French Laundry are the two meals outside of New York that have impressed me the most. Although I can hardly be said to have dined at all the potential world class restaurants in the US, I've been disappointed by more than enough supposedly great restaurants. Then again I've had some excellent meals in hotel restaurants in both Chicago and San Francisco. Come to think of it, both places are pretty good restaurant cities. In some ways they are better than NY, but that starts to get into a very silly comparison and we've had enough uninteresting threads that prove little other than the fact that we all have different ideas of what's most important.

I suspect that someone with classic French tastes might prefer FL to CT, but there are subjective considerations here. Perhaps the best competition those two restaurants had was a meal in le Bec Fin in Philadelphia, but the chef who was there at the time has left.

[Fat Guy]

The only famous French chef  I know who decided at a late age to become a chef is Michel Trama.

What about Roellinger?

As for Trotter, I am waiting for the first person who has dined extensively in France to say he is as great as his fans say he is.

How many chefs are as great as their fans say they are? Probably none. Using yourself as the benchmark, I don't know if there's anybody around here who qualifies as having dined extensively in France, but what I can say for Trotter is that he has the whole restauration thing down pretty well. If you're willing to buy into his whole New Age meets Fast Company approach to service, there are few restaurants anywhere that will make you feel as pampered. The food probably won't appeal all that much to a died-in-the-wool French culinary chauvinist, but in the pantheon of New-American/Canadian/British/Australian- with-Asian-influences chefs he's right up there. Certainly he is respected by his peers around the world.

[robert brown]

See Steve, I didn't know that about Roellinger. What did he do before and when did he decide to become a chef?

[Fat Guy]

His background was in chemical engineering. I believe he was 25 when he first undertook to become a chef. This is old even by American standards. How old was Trama?

His life story is so interesting it may be worth its own thread.

[robert brown]

I think Trama was a few years younger. Wasn't Michel Bras a chemist at some point, although I believe his family owned a restaurant. Why not start a thread on Roellinger?

[awbrig]

my wife and I were at a special dinner hosted by Charlie Trotter and Michel Trama 2 years ago @ Trotters and had the opportunity to meet Chef Trama and his wife Maryse. His best dish, by far, was his first...Osetra Caviar tacos with black squid ink...talk about striking! The next 3.5 hours were unbelievable w CT and MT switching off courses and wines!

Needless to say, Charlie's dishs were superior, although all were incredible! We have the signed menu framed from that night in our home and I look at it often...

[snoop]

His background was in chemical engineering. I believe he was 25 when he first undertook to become a chef. This is old even by American standards. How old was Trama?

25 is old in America? What would be the average or prime age to decide to embark on a chef's career?

[thelastsupper]

Both Fat Guy and cabrales, whose opinions I respect, like Lumiere.

I however find Feenie to be merely derivative of Trotter with no originality and generally squirelly. However I have not dined at Lumiere and base my revulsion on his appearances and his appearance on Food Network Canada. Charlie Brown with highlights, mousse, and a squeeze bottle. His current catch-phrase is "Good food rocks!"

Indeed.

I agree that his "Food . . . Cool!" persona is annoying and laughable, but I suspect it was dreamed up for the TV show. He definitely wasn't moussed up a few years ago.

As for Feenie's food: if it is derivative, it is not diminished.

[cabrales]

jordyn and I spoke about the kitchen table experience recently. We each considered Trotter's ignorance of our presence in his kitchen very rude. The least he could have done was to nod at us, which was not what was done. We speculated that our table might have "looked" very young, but we did not know why Trotter was so indifferent.

[Lady T]

Folks, I don't disagree. Being ignored is not nice. Two points, though:

Trotter's is thorough to the point of obsession about handing out mail-back evaluation surveys. Did you get them? Did you tell them that CT failed to greet you, nod hello, or even notice you? Did you let them know that you were offended? Don't let 'em get away with it, not for the $$$$$ you invested in the experience!

On the other hand, however: I am hearing that CT is (a) preparing to depart for London to preside at the 'Trotter's at The Hospital' opening, (b) putting final-final touches on the 'RAW' cookbook he's doing with Roxanne Klein out in California, © putting 13 more episodes of 'The Kitchen Sessions' in the can, and (d) starting work on another cookbook, probably to go with the new TV eps. There's no way to EXCUSE the rudeness of the oversight, and I'm not trying to do so -- but fatigue, worry and distraction are common to us all, and epidemic in the hospitality field; those things might EXPLAIN his behavior on the night. See the distinction?

Still and yet: please do make sure that you make your unhappiness known to the staff at Trotter's. They need to know that the boss offended a table full of guests and let the team down, and that they need to make it right.

[Jinmyo]

Lady T, I agree with all of your points. Especially that CT needs to know.

[bourdain]

In defense of Charlie..He's not the most outgoing guy in the world--bordering on shy. He is also not the sort of guy to knowingly give somebody the cold shoulder. A lot on his plate, I'm guessing. At least he didn't snarl. At least he was THERE the night you were--an increasingly rare phenomenon in famous chef kitchens these days..I wouldn't take it personally, man. It's all about the food anyway. Isn't it?

[Rail Paul]

At least he was THERE the night you were--an increasingly rare phenomenon in famous chef kitchens these days..I wouldn't take it personally, man. It's all about the food anyway. Isn't it?

Good advice, but "all about the food" covers a multitude of expectations.

I'd guess dining in the kitchen somehow conveys an expectation that you get first hand viewing of process and assembly, and maybe a little attention. After, all, if it's about the food, all you gain by being in the kitchen is a little warmer and perhaps noisier.

I've been on a few investment trading floors, and the absolute last thing you want to do is to interrupt or even break the concentration of a trader. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a perfectionist like Trotter would demand the same focus of himself as a trader does in executing a multi-part deal.

Would have been nice for CT and his team to pull up a few chairs and share dessert or a drink with the guests as the order flow from the main room slowed. After all, we are speaking of good looking women here...

[cabrales]

I'm not sure about the good looking women part as it applied to me, but I didn't expect Trotter to necessarily speak at length with us or sit with us. However, to not even acknowledge us with a nod or a "hello, hope you have a good meal" indication is, to me, being impolite. It was literally as though our table did not exist that night to CT.

[cabrales]

[Apologies -- wrong thread for posting]

Edited December 2, 2002 by cabrales (log)